Today's postings
- [Baren 26392] Re: DVD survey ... (David Bull)
- [Baren 26393] Re: woodblock intaglio ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
- [Baren 26394] Re: cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related) (Jeanne Norman Chase)
- [Baren 26395] Re: woodblock intaglio (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 26396] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil (Sharri LaPierre)
- [Baren 26397] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil (Myron Turner)
- [Baren 26398] cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related) (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 26399] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V29 #2848 (Nov 9, 2004) ("Bill H. Ritchie, Jr.")
- [Baren 26400] RE: Baren Digest (old) V29 #2848 ("marilynn smih")
- [Baren 26401] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V29 #2845 (Nov 8, 2004) (Robin Morris)
- [Baren 26402] Re: cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related) ("Bea Gold")
- [Baren 26403] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
- [Baren 26404] Re: Zen of woodcutting ... (David Bull)
Message 1
From: David Bull
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:26:39 +0900
Subject: [Baren 26392] Re: DVD survey ...
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Thanks to those who have written in with ideas, suggestions, and offers
to help with the work on a DVD project for [Baren]!
> http://barenforum.org/dvd/survey.html
There has been more than enough response to make it clear that this is
not only something we could do, but should do! We'll be in touch with
you shortly to start getting things organized. In the meantime, if any
of the rest of you want to get involved, or have suggestions for the
project, please visit that page and let us know your thoughts; once we
get going, things are going to move along quickly - so now's your
chance to make your ideas felt!
Thanks!
***
Murilo wrote:
> There is an article about Florian—polis (FLORIPA)
> Santa Catarina, Brazil, where I live, written by
> Victoria Gomelsky,
> and "see'" why I invite you all from all over
> the world to come here to visit this paradise.
Interesting to read this ... [Baren] sometimes seems a bit 'top-heavy' with
US-based members, and it's nice to have a reminder of the places where some of
our more far-flung members live!
Curious as to whether or not we have any members from China on board yet ... Anybody here?
Dave
to help with the work on a DVD project for [Baren]!
> http://barenforum.org/dvd/survey.html
There has been more than enough response to make it clear that this is
not only something we could do, but should do! We'll be in touch with
you shortly to start getting things organized. In the meantime, if any
of the rest of you want to get involved, or have suggestions for the
project, please visit that page and let us know your thoughts; once we
get going, things are going to move along quickly - so now's your
chance to make your ideas felt!
Thanks!
***
Murilo wrote:
> There is an article about Florian—polis (FLORIPA)
> Santa Catarina, Brazil, where I live, written by
> Victoria Gomelsky,
> and "see'" why I invite you all from all over
> the world to come here to visit this paradise.
Interesting to read this ... [Baren] sometimes seems a bit 'top-heavy' with
US-based members, and it's nice to have a reminder of the places where some of
our more far-flung members live!
Curious as to whether or not we have any members from China on board yet ... Anybody here?
Dave
Message 2
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 06:40:57 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26393] Re: woodblock intaglio
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Concur! Use linseed oil on your block and let dry before carving; I used on
my (very few) waterbased blocks too without any problem. Linseed oil
penetrates just slightly and gives the top wood fibers more elasticity so
they are not quite so britle and don't split as much. It does keep the
chipping down a bit, but birch will always chip some. I don't varnish my
blocks as I feel it interferes with later ink absorption, but that's just a
personal thing. When on the field, I use mineral oil as it is readily
available and friendlier.
Do try cherry or at least maple; you will never go back to birch. Maple is
readily available in the same places you get your birch plywood and won't
split at all. Maple also allows for much more detail than birch as it will
hold up to printing. Barbara said it well, keeping tools ultra sharp and
honing often while carving is essential to less splitting. With sharp tools
cherry or maple are really just as easy to carve as birch.
Good carving!
Maria
my (very few) waterbased blocks too without any problem. Linseed oil
penetrates just slightly and gives the top wood fibers more elasticity so
they are not quite so britle and don't split as much. It does keep the
chipping down a bit, but birch will always chip some. I don't varnish my
blocks as I feel it interferes with later ink absorption, but that's just a
personal thing. When on the field, I use mineral oil as it is readily
available and friendlier.
Do try cherry or at least maple; you will never go back to birch. Maple is
readily available in the same places you get your birch plywood and won't
split at all. Maple also allows for much more detail than birch as it will
hold up to printing. Barbara said it well, keeping tools ultra sharp and
honing often while carving is essential to less splitting. With sharp tools
cherry or maple are really just as easy to carve as birch.
Good carving!
Maria
Message 3
From: Jeanne Norman Chase
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:19:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 26394] Re: cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related)
Send Message: To this poster
Not print related.
Barbara Mason
E mailed you but the mail came back. Did you change your e mail address?
Jeanne N
Barbara Mason
E mailed you but the mail came back. Did you change your e mail address?
Jeanne N
Message 4
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:19:50 -0600
Subject: [Baren 26395] Re: woodblock intaglio
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Maria wrote:
>Do try cherry or at least maple; you will never go back to birch. Maple is
>readily available in the same places you get your birch plywood and won't
>split at all. Maple also allows for much more detail than birch as it will
>hold up to printing. Barbara said it well, keeping tools ultra sharp and
>honing often while carving is essential to less splitting. With sharp
>tools cherry or maple are really just as easy to carve as birch.
My take:
You are using birch PLYWOOD, right? The problem you are having with
chipping of small areas is caused by the brittle glue used to adhere the
plys -- small areas of the glue would rather chip than cut, no matter how
sharp your tools! Use plank wood (solid wood) instead of plywood, or at
least adhere a thicker 'veneer' (like 1/4 inch thick) of the wood you wish
to carve and print onto your plywood base -- the advantage of plywood is
that, due to the alternating grain direction of each ply, it resists
warping very well -- even when only one side is dampened... But most
plywood (even beautiful cabinet grade baltic birch plywood) is not designed
for carving, at least not for fine lines or little dots...
Birch prints a pronounced grain (using water based pigments and a baren)
which can be very beautiful, but its long fibers like to stay together and
'peel' off the surface so it 'feels' and carves different with the grain
than across the grain. Cherry and maple are relatively homogenous, but
somewhat harder and more resistive to the tool, but they tend to print
flatter, with less grain showing in the printed impression, as they seem to
evenly absorb and release moisture during printing. Other hardwoods,
notably basswood, are relatively soft and are much easier to carve
(basswood is a good choice as it's available in surprisingly wide planks),
but basswood tends to absorb and release moisture in a 'blotchy way' not
exactly related to visible grain, and this might be considered
'unaesthetic', especially troubling if you want tight control over the
printed image. This blotchy printing can be reduced by sealing the wood
(with shellac, lacquer, varnish, etc.), but the more the wood is sealed,
the less absorbent it becomes and the less wood-character persists in the
printed impression. With enough finish, you may as well be printing from a
composite material like linoleum or urethane (which both can be sanded
prior to carving in order to print reasonably well with traditional
pigment/paste/water technique).
A very easy-to-carve softwood is Spanish cedar, which is also available in
wide planks. It has a pronounced parallel grain similar to mahogany or
luan, but is much easier to carve. It prints very cleanly and evenly when
brushed out in the direction of the grain.
Other softwoods (including many pines and firs) print a very pronounced
grain mostly due to the difference in absorbancy of the beginning and end
of each growth ring (also can be due to difference in thickness of the
soft/hard grain components when damp or after sanding). Wood generally
grows faster (and that part of the wood is softer) during
warmer/wetter/sunnier seasons and slower during colder/drier/less-sunny
seasons (and that part of the wood is more dense. A pronounced difference
in density and absorbancy in certain softwoods (like pine) and hardwoods
(like oak or walnut) can make carving much more difficult than in more
homogenous woods like basswood, cherry, or Spanish cedar.
Maybe this will help?
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>Do try cherry or at least maple; you will never go back to birch. Maple is
>readily available in the same places you get your birch plywood and won't
>split at all. Maple also allows for much more detail than birch as it will
>hold up to printing. Barbara said it well, keeping tools ultra sharp and
>honing often while carving is essential to less splitting. With sharp
>tools cherry or maple are really just as easy to carve as birch.
My take:
You are using birch PLYWOOD, right? The problem you are having with
chipping of small areas is caused by the brittle glue used to adhere the
plys -- small areas of the glue would rather chip than cut, no matter how
sharp your tools! Use plank wood (solid wood) instead of plywood, or at
least adhere a thicker 'veneer' (like 1/4 inch thick) of the wood you wish
to carve and print onto your plywood base -- the advantage of plywood is
that, due to the alternating grain direction of each ply, it resists
warping very well -- even when only one side is dampened... But most
plywood (even beautiful cabinet grade baltic birch plywood) is not designed
for carving, at least not for fine lines or little dots...
Birch prints a pronounced grain (using water based pigments and a baren)
which can be very beautiful, but its long fibers like to stay together and
'peel' off the surface so it 'feels' and carves different with the grain
than across the grain. Cherry and maple are relatively homogenous, but
somewhat harder and more resistive to the tool, but they tend to print
flatter, with less grain showing in the printed impression, as they seem to
evenly absorb and release moisture during printing. Other hardwoods,
notably basswood, are relatively soft and are much easier to carve
(basswood is a good choice as it's available in surprisingly wide planks),
but basswood tends to absorb and release moisture in a 'blotchy way' not
exactly related to visible grain, and this might be considered
'unaesthetic', especially troubling if you want tight control over the
printed image. This blotchy printing can be reduced by sealing the wood
(with shellac, lacquer, varnish, etc.), but the more the wood is sealed,
the less absorbent it becomes and the less wood-character persists in the
printed impression. With enough finish, you may as well be printing from a
composite material like linoleum or urethane (which both can be sanded
prior to carving in order to print reasonably well with traditional
pigment/paste/water technique).
A very easy-to-carve softwood is Spanish cedar, which is also available in
wide planks. It has a pronounced parallel grain similar to mahogany or
luan, but is much easier to carve. It prints very cleanly and evenly when
brushed out in the direction of the grain.
Other softwoods (including many pines and firs) print a very pronounced
grain mostly due to the difference in absorbancy of the beginning and end
of each growth ring (also can be due to difference in thickness of the
soft/hard grain components when damp or after sanding). Wood generally
grows faster (and that part of the wood is softer) during
warmer/wetter/sunnier seasons and slower during colder/drier/less-sunny
seasons (and that part of the wood is more dense. A pronounced difference
in density and absorbancy in certain softwoods (like pine) and hardwoods
(like oak or walnut) can make carving much more difficult than in more
homogenous woods like basswood, cherry, or Spanish cedar.
Maybe this will help?
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 5
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:58:29 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26396] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil
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Ahhhhhhh, come on, Carol - loosen up. An invitation to a beautiful
place is never an imposition. Thank you, Murilo, for the lovely
invitation, and I hope to take you up on it someday. It is wonderful
to know I have a welcoming friend in Brazil who will take me to
wonderful places I didn't even know exist.
Personally, I was much more offended and felt the Jesus message was
more of an imposition, however, I think what must have happened was the
sender sent to his/her "address book" and the message inadvertently
went to the Baren List. All is forgiven. Carve on, fellow Blockers!
(We are such classy folk --) LOL
Cheers,
Sharri
place is never an imposition. Thank you, Murilo, for the lovely
invitation, and I hope to take you up on it someday. It is wonderful
to know I have a welcoming friend in Brazil who will take me to
wonderful places I didn't even know exist.
Personally, I was much more offended and felt the Jesus message was
more of an imposition, however, I think what must have happened was the
sender sent to his/her "address book" and the message inadvertently
went to the Baren List. All is forgiven. Carve on, fellow Blockers!
(We are such classy folk --) LOL
Cheers,
Sharri
Message 6
From: Myron Turner
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:23:06 -0600
Subject: [Baren 26397] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil
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Thank you for the article, Murilo. I sympathize with Sharri's openness,
and really it's not irrelevant for us to know where our fellow artists come
from and what their circumstances are. Our knowledge of Brazil and of art
in Brazil tends to be so minimal. My closest encounters with Brazil were a
friendship with the Brazilian artist Paolo Whitaker about 15 years ago--is
he still on the radar?--and four or five large photo-based multimedia works
at the Museu da Gravura, Curitiba, Brazil in 1992 (all involved woodcuts in
some form or other, though not always recognizably so).
Myron
and really it's not irrelevant for us to know where our fellow artists come
from and what their circumstances are. Our knowledge of Brazil and of art
in Brazil tends to be so minimal. My closest encounters with Brazil were a
friendship with the Brazilian artist Paolo Whitaker about 15 years ago--is
he still on the radar?--and four or five large photo-based multimedia works
at the Museu da Gravura, Curitiba, Brazil in 1992 (all involved woodcuts in
some form or other, though not always recognizably so).
Myron
Message 7
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:30:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 26398] cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related)
Send Message: To this poster
Jeanne,
I have two,
barbaramason45@yahoo.com for baren stuff and
lbmason71@comcast.net this one is mostly Lee's
Both should work...but I have been having wierd stuff happening on yahoo....I can't explain it.
Barbara
Message 8
From: "Bill H. Ritchie, Jr."
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:44:20 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26399] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V29 #2848 (Nov 9, 2004)
Send Message: To this poster
It was an odd feeling to read the short, airy message from Brazil's Murilo
Grisard Pereira, entertain for a few seconds the thought of becoming one of
those expatriots (leaving the US and its arrogance) and visiting this place,
and then in the next few second read that it was an inappropriate
advertisement.
I have an email correspondent in Chile, and she, too, has invited me
numerous times to come there, exchange ideas and images as artists may, but
I never can. Let Murilo Grisard Pereira know at least one American took the
invitation at face value.
I guess I'm naive; it didn't seem like an advertisement to me--no more than
many friendly invitations we, fortunately, see in our listserves and
off-line exchanges. Carol, enlighten me!
- Bill in rainy Seattle
Grisard Pereira, entertain for a few seconds the thought of becoming one of
those expatriots (leaving the US and its arrogance) and visiting this place,
and then in the next few second read that it was an inappropriate
advertisement.
I have an email correspondent in Chile, and she, too, has invited me
numerous times to come there, exchange ideas and images as artists may, but
I never can. Let Murilo Grisard Pereira know at least one American took the
invitation at face value.
I guess I'm naive; it didn't seem like an advertisement to me--no more than
many friendly invitations we, fortunately, see in our listserves and
off-line exchanges. Carol, enlighten me!
- Bill in rainy Seattle
Message 9
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:40:01 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26400] RE: Baren Digest (old) V29 #2848
Send Message: To this poster
I thought it was just an invitation to come to Brazil and find out about art
there. I was not offended by an invitation to visit another artist. In fact
I wondered what it would be like to have a Baren summit in Brazil. This is
an international forum so it would be fun to go anywhere other artists live
and see the sites as well as create art. I loved our KC gathering as it was
relaxed and you could choose to participate any way your wanted. So, I got
to see some of the city and learn a lot about Hanga. What a memory. Oh yes
and the grand bonus of meeting so many other Baren members.
Colleen I failed to thank you for the deck of cards. It came with the
packet that Bette sent, so you were overlooked. Both of you did a wonderful
job, it is a beautiful exchange, THANK YOU.
Marilynn
there. I was not offended by an invitation to visit another artist. In fact
I wondered what it would be like to have a Baren summit in Brazil. This is
an international forum so it would be fun to go anywhere other artists live
and see the sites as well as create art. I loved our KC gathering as it was
relaxed and you could choose to participate any way your wanted. So, I got
to see some of the city and learn a lot about Hanga. What a memory. Oh yes
and the grand bonus of meeting so many other Baren members.
Colleen I failed to thank you for the deck of cards. It came with the
packet that Bette sent, so you were overlooked. Both of you did a wonderful
job, it is a beautiful exchange, THANK YOU.
Marilynn
Message 10
From: Robin Morris
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:41:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26401] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V29 #2845 (Nov 8, 2004)
Send Message: To this poster
Hi all,
Recovering here,
Got some feelings out with a political carrttoon on a shina block...
it got simpler and simpler as I tried to carve it. The letters finally
looked nice...just a few words...
then as I finished Inoticed I had not written them backwards.
Ouch. Plan is to do a print, transfer and recarve forwards....
Second time I've done this...
Thanks Barbara for the tips re: oiling, varnish, etc....
I am still learning thhe difference twixt engraving and plank-style...
I like your prayer flag idea, Aimee...I was carving a bird the last day
too.
With some small pieces of Shina ply am experimenting with what I can
and can't do with an
elliptical graver. I found that going within 45 degrees of the grain
works...anything more perpendicular the wood seems to chip out.
With these blocks I'm thinking of doing black line art. So a combination
of hangi-to and graver may work ...I'm just really enjoying carving w/
the tint tool.
I'm waiting for some ink to arrive,
and will post a pic if these experiments look like anything.
Did 2 small engravings too.
Ge4tting 'chops' together for #23.
Zen Koan for David Bull: If a quake shakes your bench and
causes you to make a small carving error would you leave it in as a
historical note or fix it?
Robin
Recovering here,
Got some feelings out with a political carrttoon on a shina block...
it got simpler and simpler as I tried to carve it. The letters finally
looked nice...just a few words...
then as I finished Inoticed I had not written them backwards.
Ouch. Plan is to do a print, transfer and recarve forwards....
Second time I've done this...
Thanks Barbara for the tips re: oiling, varnish, etc....
I am still learning thhe difference twixt engraving and plank-style...
I like your prayer flag idea, Aimee...I was carving a bird the last day
too.
With some small pieces of Shina ply am experimenting with what I can
and can't do with an
elliptical graver. I found that going within 45 degrees of the grain
works...anything more perpendicular the wood seems to chip out.
With these blocks I'm thinking of doing black line art. So a combination
of hangi-to and graver may work ...I'm just really enjoying carving w/
the tint tool.
I'm waiting for some ink to arrive,
and will post a pic if these experiments look like anything.
Did 2 small engravings too.
Ge4tting 'chops' together for #23.
Zen Koan for David Bull: If a quake shakes your bench and
causes you to make a small carving error would you leave it in as a
historical note or fix it?
Robin
Message 11
From: "Bea Gold"
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:51:00 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26402] Re: cases for exchange 21,22,and 23(not print related)
Send Message: To this poster
Hi Barbara, Do you remember which exchange I bought that wasn't available? I can go back ad look but if you remember it would be great. Do you have it for me? Bea Gold
Message 12
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:33:20 EST
Subject: [Baren 26403] Re: Floripa - Santa Catarina - Brazil
Send Message: To this poster
I agree with my critics.
I love to travel and have visited Bareners all around the US and outside,
also hosted several in my home.
We have enjoyed doing everything that Baren is so well known for, plus the
benefits of a more personal visit.
And I hope to continue.
The original Murilo message belonged on Baren After Five.
No big deal.
As ever
Carol Lyons
I love to travel and have visited Bareners all around the US and outside,
also hosted several in my home.
We have enjoyed doing everything that Baren is so well known for, plus the
benefits of a more personal visit.
And I hope to continue.
The original Murilo message belonged on Baren After Five.
No big deal.
As ever
Carol Lyons
Message 13
From: David Bull
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:17:45 +0900
Subject: [Baren 26404] Re: Zen of woodcutting ...
Send Message: To this poster
Robin Morris wrote:
> Got some feelings out with a political carrttoon on a shina block...
> it got simpler and simpler as I tried to carve it. The letters finally
> looked nice...just a few words...
> then as I finished Inoticed I had not written them backwards.
> Ouch. Plan is to do a print, transfer and recarve forwards....
> Second time I've done this...
Hey, no problem! Just dig up some _thin_ and strong Japanese paper,
pull your print, and then view it from the back side! As I understand
it, most of Munakata Shiko's work was done this way ...
> Zen Koan for David Bull: If a quake shakes your bench and
> causes you to make a small carving error would you leave it in as a
> historical note or fix it?
Fix it, of course! I don't go much for 'zen', or for 'letting the wood
talk' ... my job is to cut that puppy as accurately (and tastefully!)
as I can!
:-)
Dave
> Got some feelings out with a political carrttoon on a shina block...
> it got simpler and simpler as I tried to carve it. The letters finally
> looked nice...just a few words...
> then as I finished Inoticed I had not written them backwards.
> Ouch. Plan is to do a print, transfer and recarve forwards....
> Second time I've done this...
Hey, no problem! Just dig up some _thin_ and strong Japanese paper,
pull your print, and then view it from the back side! As I understand
it, most of Munakata Shiko's work was done this way ...
> Zen Koan for David Bull: If a quake shakes your bench and
> causes you to make a small carving error would you leave it in as a
> historical note or fix it?
Fix it, of course! I don't go much for 'zen', or for 'letting the wood
talk' ... my job is to cut that puppy as accurately (and tastefully!)
as I can!
:-)
Dave