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Message 1
From: Heather Conyers
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 13:44:34 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44818] Re: Baren Digest (old) V57 #5850
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Attachment could not be processed.

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Message 2
From: Hannah Skoonberg
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:34:01 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44819] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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We have a laser cutter at the University of Tennessee, although it is
mostly used by the architecture department, one of our grad students,
Leslie Grossman uses it regularly for carving her wood blocks.
http://www.leslie-grossman.com/Leslie_A._Grossman/home.html

You can see from her work that laser cutting has the potential to be highly
organic and if you had a good scan of an original I don't think I would be
able to tell the difference. And of course each reproduction could slip up
in different ways. Obviously different wood grain, scale, paper, color,
it's tricky. I know the laser leaves a slightly burned edge but you might
not have the blocks available to look at.

I would actually recommend you send Leslie an email. lgrossma@utk.edu She's
our laser cutting expert.

Good luck with that
Hannah

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Message 3
From: key sevn
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:36:54 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44820] Re: exhibition of baren xchanges.
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more shots here
http://galeria.serwermok.nazwa.pl/moku-hanga-drzeworyt-japonski-wernisaz-/f2d75a7271ff44b1ed54cb1dc3f9513e.jpg.php

2011/12/24 Orgren Alex C (Alex)

> Olek,
>
>
>
> Thanks for doing this and sharing the photos. I can see someone standing
> in front of some prints that include my Buttermilk Falls. He might even
> have looked at it of his own free will, which is a rare event for me.
>
>
> Alex
>

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Message 4
From: Gayle Wohlken
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:47:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44821] Exhibition of Baren Exchanges
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Olek, what a nice group of photos showing people's interest in the processes and you explaining! Thank you for having that exhibit in Poland. It feels wonderful to have our work seen in places we would never have been able to prior to our Baren connection. I'm so appreciative of all the shows that have come about through our exchanges program. Good work, Olek!

~Gayle Wohlken

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Message 5
From: Digramma
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 16:58:12 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44822] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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I have used a laser cutter in several of my prints. I dont really see a
reason why not to use one. It's only a tool. If your original image is
worthwhile and interesting whatever means one might use to actually carve
it is only a matter of personal ambition. If we fall for a false logic like
that then we might as well attribute Hokusai's prints to his carvers.
Technology is there to be used.

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Message 6
From: "Jeanne Norman Chase"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:33:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44823] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Just had to reply re; laser prints. I sorta think laser prints should not be allowed in the Baren (ducking tomatos) Just my opinion. Next thing we will be out having our prints reproduced.
Jeanne N


From: Digramma
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:57 AM
To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
Subject: [Baren 44822] Re: Lasercut blocks?


I have used a laser cutter in several of my prints. I dont really see a reason why not to use one. It's only a tool. If your original image is worthwhile and interesting whatever means one might use to actually carve it is only a matter of personal ambition. If we fall for a false logic like that then we might as well attribute Hokusai's prints to his carvers. Technology is there to be used.

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Message 7
From: "Jeanne Norman Chase"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:35:34 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44824] Re: Exhibition of Baren Exchanges
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Gayle
Please do not be mad at me!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeanne

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Message 8
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:48:28 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44825] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Jeanne,
I disagree, it is a tool, just like a pencil. These are the same things folks said about a computer and we now accept it and most use it every day...I think the idea of the artist is the most important and the real skill is the printing. As long as it is printed by hand I am fine with it as moku hanga. Look what Mike has done with his routers...an amazing body of work. Tools are tools, it is how we use the and what we make with them that counts in the long run. Nothing will ever replace the ideas of the artist. Art is what defines us, in all its forms.

Print Arts NW had serious discussions about computer work and now accept it if it is done totally in the computer and not just images that are layered with photoshop and then printed out. I don't think it sells well but we do show it and artists are sure getting better using a computer. People who want prints like the look of hand printed work. So a tool is a tool.
my very best to you
Barbara

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Message 9
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 17:52:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44826] Re: exhibition of baren xchanges.
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This show is really nice. I love all the large frames adding weight to the prints. Wish I could see the individual prints more clearly. Which exchange is this again?

Love the demo table with baren and blocks and tools. I find people like that sort of display as well.

Great job!

Ellen

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Message 10
From: Kristine Alder
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:11:39 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44827] NEW EXCHANGE! Sign-ups for Ex 52
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Hi Baren Friends--
Here we are wrapping up another year. We've had some great exchanges this year with a lot of fantastic art produced and shared. With the new year looming and only days away, it's time to gear up for the first exchange of 2012.
The sign-up for Exchange 52 officially opens on January 2, 2012.
Exchange 52 is a themed exchange, so we need to get some ideas flowing--send your suggestions and votes for the next three days. The theme will be announced on Dec. 31st. The paper size for this exchange is "chuban " 10 x 7 1/2 inches (about 24.5 cm x 19 cm), with the image size being any that will fit inside the paper dimensions.
It's a brand new year with brand new possibilities!!! Be sure you don't miss out on any of them!
Happy Holidays,
Kristine



Kristine Alder
Baren Exchange Manager
St. George, UT
Art Educator/Printmaker/Book Artist
Co-President UAEA
email: alder@pineview.org
imakeprints@hotmail.com

"The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it,
but that it is too low and we reach it." --Michelangelo

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Message 11
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 18:13:11 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44828] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Absolutely.... Techy stuff is there to be used and can be considered as a tool......

However......

I sell my HAND CARVED plates for around the thousand dollar mark....

Happy New Year
Graham

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Message 12
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:50:42 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44829] Re: NEW EXCHANGE! Sign-ups for Ex 52
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I vote for Spring..I am ready for it
Barbara

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Message 13
From: "Oscar Bearinger"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:08:29 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44830] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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dear woodcutters,
I concur with Jeanne and would prefer that hand carving be part of the Baren
criteria. (of course I am NOT evangelical about this, and will go with the
concensus of the group.) I don't agree with you, Barbara, that printing is
the chief criteria in Baren -- of course I have to say that as I am such a
greenhorn printer :~) !! however, the carving is equally important to me.

there is a much deeper and maybe more significant layer to this, which I
would like to mention very briefly.

Heidegger said that TECHNOLOGY was one of the two most important questions
of the modern world.
"Techy stuff is there to be used...." I am quoting your posting, Graham.

this (quoted) phrase highlights the whole problem with technology......human
civilization seems to be at a point where, if the technology exists, then it
is mandatory that we develop and use it. this has given us the atom bomb,
and now we are in the very disturbing reeds of genetic intervention and
experiments in human genetics.

I am not opposed to the use of technology, and particularly laser and
computer-generated art. I just am not interested in being a part of it (at
present).

I do however differ greatly with this statement "a tool is a tool." there
is a GREAT differentiation between tools, and the proper use of tools
requires attention to difference between tools.

despite these large questions (which I merely want to signal to the group
discussion), these are only my two cents :~)

thanks, Jeanne. (hope you like tomatoes) this is a great group and I love
this group, have learned and seen so much variety and awesome images from
all of you.

have a great new year, everyone!

Oscar

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Message 14
From: "Aaron Gillette"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:27:32 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44831] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Did Oscar just compare laser cutting a wood block to the development of
the atom bomb? :)

Using a laser or CNC for block carving is an issue we've touched on
before. I don't think that using these tools should be disallowed. Most
of our members are interested in exploring the history and tradition of
relief printing, but we shouldn't exclude those who wish to push the
envelope a little.

We allow different block materials and transfer methods, why not allow
different carving tools?

- Aaron

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Message 15
From: Curtis Wright
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:41:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44832] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Aaron Gillette wrote:

> Did Oscar just compare laser cutting a wood block to the development of
> the atom bomb? :)

It seems so. Perhaps medical technology should have stopped with bleeding with leeches. I believe that the artist's concept, vision and ability to print are the most important aspect.
--Curtis Wright

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Message 16
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:42:04 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44833] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Aaron,
This nearly made me fall off my chair laughing and I agree totally with you, inclusive is way better than exclusive.
My best
Barbara

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Message 17
From: "Oscar Bearinger"
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 22:42:19 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44834] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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> Did Oscar just compare laser cutting a wood block to the development of
> the atom bomb? :)

Sorry, Aaron, I did not make this comparison -- please !!

Maybe you want to re-read my post.

Maybe not.

Cheers, Oscar

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Message 18
From: Maria Arango Diener
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:34:14 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44835] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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So if "a tool is a tool" and there are no lines to be drawn at all, at which point do we stop being printmakers and become printers?

To me the difference between printmakers and everyone else is that we create and produce multiples by our own hand. I have seen many modern printmakers take a photograph, carefully make separations with photoshop, transfer to blocks, cut and print to taste. They look like a reproduced, manipulated photographs and I remain wholly unimpressed with the result.

We create via digital photography, manipulate with digital imaging, transfer to blocks to be cut with lasers and print by hand? One tiny step further, we find a way to lay pigment on paper by yet another "tool" and we have fully automated digital imaging which I accept as being meritorious in its own right.

But I think the question we are posing is: does near full automation of the printing process have a place in a woodblock printmaking group exchange?

And what the dickens happened to the artist's hand? Speaking strictly for myself, I firmly believe that at each step that the artist's hand is taken out of the process, the artist is taken out of the process. Much of modern printmaking looks to me a collage of mechanical images taken out of magazines or the Internet. And, again, while collages of rehashed imagery have their rightful place in art, I, again, remain unimpressed.

Short version: let's do what we can to keep woodblock printmaking as much a hand craft as it is an art form.

Maria

Sent from my iPad
www.1000woodcuts.com

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Message 19
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 23:42:31 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44836] Laser cut blocks
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Baren 44831] Re: Lasercut blocks?

I remember now. -- I saw a Tom Wesselman large lasercut woodblock
exhibited at MOMA in NYC years ago. A few weeks ago when going over past NYTimes
papers there was a large article about that; I think it was in the '90's
About time to throw it out!. .
Since he did hardly anything by hand I did not keep the article.

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY

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Message 20
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 01:37:05 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44837] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Shouldn't a hand made print be hand made....?????
I think so.
Or you should in all honesty state....
Machine made plate - Hand made print
As I see it you can't make our prints without a plate... at least not where I come from

As for trying to set down the guidelines of "must be made from hand carved plates" for any exchange.... Not a chance in the world of enforcing the ruling. It really is an integrity situation with individuals.... I cringe thinking about machine tooling a wood plate.... Yuk....

Your last statement Maria is right on the money....

Dinosaur
Graham

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Message 21
From: Mark Phillips
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:24:50 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44838] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Just my opinion but I think tools are tools and the artist makes use of
them as best they can to see their vision. Are we to only print by hand
and never use a press? Are people who use letterpress cheating if they
don't cut their own matrices for type? If I use a dremel to carve my
blocks am I cheating? The image has to be key in the end and whatever
means you arrive at that is okay. When we start saying prints are only
done on wood or hand cut then we are setting rules and boundaries, then
it becomes a merely a craft and not art. The salon school had similar
restrictions for what defined a good painting and artists rebelled and
changed art forever. Tools and even assistants are time savers and they
are used to complete the work and that is what's important in the end
not the path to get there.

Regards,
Mark Phillips
egallery http://www.graphicmarx.com

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Message 22
From: Lisa Toth
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:33:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 44839] Re: Lasercut blocks?
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Well said, Mark.

Sent from my iPhone

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