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Message 1
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:15:50 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42265] Victoria Finlay's Color Book
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Victoria Finlay's book Color: A Natural History of the Palette --, so
much fascinating info in it.
I bought that book, used and beautiful, on amazon.com. last summer.
Chock full of terrific history about color.
Like history? Like color? Like intrigue? ( "the second best bed")
Everything is in here.
and nothing scary about it.
Carol Lyons

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Message 2
From: Linda Beeman
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:36:49 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42266] Master Printers and Natural Pigment
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I wanted to make clear that I meant no disrespect to Master Printers!  Tamarind seemed to be working more with artists who were not printmakers.  I just was lusting after those big presses and getting my hands on the litho stones that I was let down that I couldn't do the actual printing....which then sent me into a panic about letting someone else print my work!

Natural Pigments - do you think these are more like Akua Kolor?  Since they are being so "coy" as Dave mentioned maybe that's what it is?  Has anyone contacted the company directly and asked?  Maybe they'd join in the discussion here!
Linda Beeman

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Message 3
From: Annie Bissett
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 13:41:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42267] Re: Question about pigment dispersions
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No experience with naturalpigments.com dispersions, but they look
thick and luscious. Thicker than Guerra for sure, but they also seem
to be consistently twice the price of Guerra. If anyone tries them,
please let us know what you find.

best,
Annie

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Message 4
From: Lee Churchill
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 14:33:01 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42268] Alma Print Show and Question
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Hi All,
The idea of using a master printer is one that I love, personally, though I've never gotten to work with one. I've seen a master printer working with a painter to create a print and I thought it was a pretty perfect merging of talents. The painter worked step by step with the printer, he drew up the design, they talked about the colours/mood/atmosphere, etc and the printer made suggestions for technique that best suited what the artist was looking for (screen). Then they worked together mixing inks and critiquing the proofs until they had the 'bon a tirer' print at which point the painter was free to leave knowing that the work produced would be perfectly executed... As someone who tries to keep their fingers in too many pies I can see the beauty and simplicity of saying "I'm a painter, not a printmaker so I'll do what I'm good at and had over the parts I'm not good at to the person best able to do it." So dreams the woman who hasn't had the time to even doodle lately! :-P

Question: Has anyone tried using methylcellulose (MC) as a surface sizing agent? Or as their pigment binder?? I made some papers, they're tiny (about 5 x 9 cm), and before I use them I need to size them. I've sized printing paper with gelatin before but it was a bit messy (I don't have Dave's awesome building skills!) whereas the MC I could mix thin and not have to heat it... also it doesn't go bad easily (not really anything for microbes to eat). Any ideas or experiences would be great to know!

Cheers,
Lee

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Message 5
From: Louise Cass
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 14:34:59 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42269] Re: Printing relief on primed canvas
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Tibi - canvas boards are awful for painting - support is too
rigid -doesn't 'breathe' and even repels oil paints in some
cases so no wonder you're having problems with inks....if
you're determined to continue experimenting I would
suggested buying unprimed cotton or linen, stretching it and
applying 1 or 2 coats (for painting one needs 3 or 4) of
(thinned) gesso, sanding with fine garnet paper and
proceeding to print - the canvas one prepares oneself is
better than commercially prepared stuff which generally has
too 'slick' a surface - your own can be as absorbent or non
absorbent as you wish - (we used to prepare the gesso
ourselves, too, but even using 'ready made' gives you a
better quality primed canvas) .........
Louise C

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Message 6
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 14:39:30 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42270] primed canvas and pigment dispersions
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I was taught in my oil painting classes that one paints on primed
canvas because eventually unprimed canvas will rot away. I personally
have not had major problems with DS oil pigments drying. But, if I
wanted my work to last through time I would not use an oil based
product on unprimed canvas.

Dave, those pigment dispersions look interesting. Would love to try
them. As artists we seem to need many hats, chemistry sure fits in.

Marilynn

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Message 7
From: Louise Cass
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:05:46 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42271] Re: Alma Print Show
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Everyone is 'dead on' re remarks on printmaking history etc
- when I was at the Central school in London(UK)
experimenting with etching and aquatint, all students work
was printed by the master-printer - they didn't want their
beautiful presses messed up - obviously if you end up
specializing in this you'd want to print yourself - I was
under the impression that Tamarind and other presses mostly
adapted painters' works for printing - eg Helen
Frankenthaler et al (I know a Japanese master collaborates
for her work but does Tamarind work exclusively with
printmakers?) - since the trend today is to go through the
whole process oneself - apart from the fact that it would be
lovely to work with the help of a master technician, the
main advantage would be for mass production which brings us
right back to Carol Montgomery's remarks
> I thought printmaking was developed
> as a cheap and fast means for commercial reproduction of images. Thus,
> European as well as Asian methods were originally done in workshops to speed
> mass production with many people in different stages - artist/designer, printer, apprentices, etc...

of course we have comparatively cheap print processes today and are constantly fighting the battle between those and 'art' printmaking!!


Louise Cass
www.LCassArt.com

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Message 8
From: "Ramsey Household"
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:23:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42272] Re: Alma Print Show
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The way I have seen lithographs done by non-printmakers is that the artist
paints or draws on the stone and the master printer helps determine the
color separations and does the actual process of etching the stone and
printing the image. The artist is free to make the image without worrying
about the process.

Carolyn

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Message 9
From: Diane Cutter
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 15:32:21 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42273] Re: primed canvas and pigment dispersions
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Me, too, Marilyn... The oiliness of paints usually leaves a halo over time on
unprimed canvas. Though here is the puzzling issue: those of us who use oil
based inks do so on paper. I've noticed that some of my papers have a yellowish
halo (earlier prints) and others don't (more recent). I think that, with paper
and printmaking inks, the amount of oil as the pigment carrier is the
culprit... thus halos on canvas.

Am I making sense?


Diane

www.DianeCutter.com
www.theitinerantartist.blogspot.com
www.DCutter.etsy.com

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Message 10
From: Louise Cass
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:00:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42274] Re: primed canvas and pigment dispersions
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(This seems to be my day for copious emails) I've never
experienced 'halos' on unprimed canvas -it usually depends
on what oils are used in the pigments - work does survive
amazingly well on the most unusual surfaces eg many large
Vuillards were painted on a kind of (unprimed) corrugated
board and are in excellent condition - also many other
artists' ptgs on various papers survive - luck or what?! I
tend to think it's a specific oil as well as quantity that
shows up as halos..

Louise Cass

www.LCassArt.com

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Message 11
From: Elizabeth Atwood
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 17:09:32 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42275] Re: Alma Print Show
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That is my experience.......lone experience with a master printer. My
opportunity to work with him was a print show award. I created a
lithograph and watched in awe as the printer worked with it. Who
couldn't enjoy the touch of a master printer?

ElizA in Maine

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Message 12
From: Carol Montgomery
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:09:11 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42276] Re: Alma Print Show
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Had a workshop with master printer John Armstrong last year. He really printed intaglio well and quite different from how I had been taught. Loose ink scraped on and off In quick swipes and finished with old telephone book pages. Carol

Sent from my iPad

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Message 13
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:54:05 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42277] Re: Alma Print Show & Yoshida
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I read books on both the Tamarind Institute and Tyler Graphics (now
defunct I believe) and for the most part one of the things that is
apparent is the option to work in very large scale when printing at one of
these facilities......for many artists the cost of owning a LARGE press is
prohibitive (both in cost and in space) and our scale is somewhat reduced.
The largest print I have ever done was 27" X 47" and it was a one time
thing, small edition. For the most part I believe that many of these
places would also offer rental of their presses or the option to
collaborate with a master printmaker skilled in large scale prints.

For moku-hanga hand printing beyond a certain size becomes difficult as
the large sized papers expand or contract and is so hard to control
humidity to keep paper at the desired moisture levels. I remember reading
somewhere that Hiroshi Yoshida required two people to help print his
larger scale prints....and these
were just a bit larger than oban size.

Now if you have a setup like Mike Lyon and can produce very large scale
prints as a one-man operation.....that's printmaking heaven !

Julio

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Message 14
From: Andrew Stone
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 22:15:29 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42278] master printers
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I often think as I'm printing a set of blocks how much better they might come out if someone else was printing.

My prints are definitely a product of my imagination and hands and sometimes that's a really positive thing. "I Made This!" in a declaratory way. 

But not always. And if Art History ever decides to look back at my output it will be recognized by the muddy and sometimes jarring colors, the too-wet printing, the pale underprinted corners, the ever changing ink blots, the quirky composition and subjects; etc. etc.

I'm often satisfied with my work for what it is but I know that a good printer might be able to take my work much farther than I am
able. I've had good ideas get carved decently but printed just so-so and never felt that I really "got it right".

It would be fun to work with a good printer just to see what they can do with my blocks. ( and learn from them).

Another fun idea would be to pass a set of blocks to one of you and let you print them how you like. See what gets produced.

That would be a fun exchange.

Andrew Stone
rospobio.blogspot.com

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Message 15
From: David Bull
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:04:48 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42279] About those dispersions ...
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I posted a link the other day to a new kind of dispersion pigment that
had been posted on my support forum - the ones from Natural Pigments.
http://www.naturalpigments.com/pigment_dispersions/default.asp

I see that we have attracted the attention of the company who makes
them, so I think we have a good chance here to learn more!

Mr. O'Hanlon, thanks for dropping by! I hope most of the conversation
here isn't too boring for you ... A lot of our members are working
with water-based pigments and we would like to learn more about your
product.

Being a 'traditional' guy myself, I have never used anything but
powdered pigments. I have never felt interested in trying dispersions,
as the samples I have seen all seemed simply too 'watery' and weak.
But going by the images on your website - yours do look very saturated.

Can you tell us more about them, please?

And I understand that you have 'trade secrets' that you wouldn't want
to give away, but we _are_ worried about what goes into our prints, so
(at least for me) there is a concern about what else might be 'in
there'. Can you perhaps elaborate a bit?

Thanks for taking the trouble to visit us, and I look forward to
learning more about these interesting products!

Dave

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Message 16
From: andrea # starkeyart.com
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 06:33:38 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42280] RE: master printers
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I really like Andrew's idea of an exchange passing on a set of blocks for another member to print. If you've never had the opportunity to print another printmaker's block(s), I highly recommend taking the opportunity should it arise. I was fortunate, or crazy, to take on a project last year that involved printing some other Dayton Printmakers Co-Op member's woodblocks and it was a great experience. There are some photos here. It's hard to describe the feeling of pulling a print when you don't know what to expect. Just as Andrew said, I think most of us probably struggle with our prints looking like we envisioned them during their conception. Without those preconcieved expectations, you get a different take on the printing process and you are able to enjoy it from an entirely different point of view. I vote that we do it.Andrea Starkeywww.starkeyart.comwww.starkeyart.blogspot.com

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Message 17
From: andrea # starkeyart.com
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 06:37:48 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42281] Re: master printers
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Oops. Let me try that again... there are some photos here.Andrea

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Message 18
From: "Maria Regina Pinto Pereira"
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 11:01:53 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42282] RES: Victoria Finlay's Color Book
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I loved this book too !

MaRegina

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