Today's postings
- [Baren 40221] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 40222] embossing (Linda Beeman)
- [Baren 40223] nail punches (Lee Churchill)
- [Baren 40224] ink types, new years cards (Marilynn Smith)
- [Baren 40225] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Amanda Miller)
- [Baren 40226] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Tibi Chelcea)
- [Baren 40227] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Louise Cass)
- [Baren 40228] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Daniel Dew)
- [Baren 40229] RE: Ink suggestion/GC water based (thadeenz97 # verizon.net)
- [Baren 40230] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions (Sharri LaPierre)
- [Baren 40231] Re: nail punches (Viza Arlington)
- [Baren 40232] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions ("Terry Peart")
- [Baren 40233] Re: embossing ("Jeanne Norman Chase")
Message 1
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:03:29 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40221] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
Jill,
I used Graphic Chemical litho ink for years doing viscosity monotypes before I started doing wood block and solarplate.
If you modify your inks and work in transparent layers instead of opaque layers, you will find there is very little shine. I used a mixture of 1/2 transparent base and 1/2 setswell in all my inks, so that means there was 25% or each in each ink. this is more than the recommended amount of setswell. but I have seen no change in work that is 30 years old so think it is fine. You need to think differently using this method as each time a layer goes down it changes what is beneath it but does not totally cover it up. I cleaned up with oil and then soap and water. Whoever said it was a mess must have not been doing it right. It does take a little more energy but the advantages of not having solvents around far outweigh the effort. I have not used solvents in over 10 years. If I need to really degrease something I use rubbing alcohol. If I were to use solvents, Gamsol is the recommended one, the particles in this order free thinner cannot get into your system
unless you spray it into the air and breathe it. So on a scale of 1-10 it is a 10 as far as a safe solvent. That is relative of course, as no solvent at all is better than even a "safe" one.
If you are printing woodblock with a press, you can remove almost all the ink by running it through on newsprint and there is little clean up.
Rollers do need to be cleaned and I used oil and then water with hand dishwash soap about 10%. The one of choice in studios here seems to be Dawn but any liquid soap should work.
The Akua Intaglio is good, it is a learning curve on how to use it, just like any new ink. It cleans up with water and a little soap in an amazingly fast way. you cannot mix water with the inks as it stiffens them and not uniformly. Again, less ink will get you more...this ink dries by absorption into the paper, so if you print 5 blocks one behind the other and strip back the ink with newsprint if there is excess between layers, it should dry well for you. If you print, let it dry and print again it will not work as well as each layer will seal the paper more and it will be less absorbent.
I have the caligio inks but have not had time to try them. When I do I will report to the list
My best to you
Barbara
I used Graphic Chemical litho ink for years doing viscosity monotypes before I started doing wood block and solarplate.
If you modify your inks and work in transparent layers instead of opaque layers, you will find there is very little shine. I used a mixture of 1/2 transparent base and 1/2 setswell in all my inks, so that means there was 25% or each in each ink. this is more than the recommended amount of setswell. but I have seen no change in work that is 30 years old so think it is fine. You need to think differently using this method as each time a layer goes down it changes what is beneath it but does not totally cover it up. I cleaned up with oil and then soap and water. Whoever said it was a mess must have not been doing it right. It does take a little more energy but the advantages of not having solvents around far outweigh the effort. I have not used solvents in over 10 years. If I need to really degrease something I use rubbing alcohol. If I were to use solvents, Gamsol is the recommended one, the particles in this order free thinner cannot get into your system
unless you spray it into the air and breathe it. So on a scale of 1-10 it is a 10 as far as a safe solvent. That is relative of course, as no solvent at all is better than even a "safe" one.
If you are printing woodblock with a press, you can remove almost all the ink by running it through on newsprint and there is little clean up.
Rollers do need to be cleaned and I used oil and then water with hand dishwash soap about 10%. The one of choice in studios here seems to be Dawn but any liquid soap should work.
The Akua Intaglio is good, it is a learning curve on how to use it, just like any new ink. It cleans up with water and a little soap in an amazingly fast way. you cannot mix water with the inks as it stiffens them and not uniformly. Again, less ink will get you more...this ink dries by absorption into the paper, so if you print 5 blocks one behind the other and strip back the ink with newsprint if there is excess between layers, it should dry well for you. If you print, let it dry and print again it will not work as well as each layer will seal the paper more and it will be less absorbent.
I have the caligio inks but have not had time to try them. When I do I will report to the list
My best to you
Barbara
Message 2
From: Linda Beeman
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:18:53 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40222] embossing
Send Message: To this poster
I've been kicking around the idea of using embossing on a print. Looking at the information in the encylopedia of woodblock on the site it says that "fluffy" paper works best. Can someone tell me what "fluffy" means and some names of paper? I am using Kihada and Azusa from the Mall.
Linda
Message 3
From: Lee Churchill
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:23:29 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40223] nail punches
Send Message: To this poster
Hey Maria,
I'm curious, when I've tried this (once) it caused raised areas around where I hammered the nail in, it made it difficult to ink up (I was using a brayer at the time not moku hanga) is it not an issue using brushes or could it have been the maple plywood that I was using? I was looking for an easier way of making hundreds of circles for a background pattern rather than carving them all.
With interest,
Lee.
Dan,
Two tools I can think of will do the trick:
In fact, now that I think about it, if you can get a square nail you'd be in
business.
Maria
I'm curious, when I've tried this (once) it caused raised areas around where I hammered the nail in, it made it difficult to ink up (I was using a brayer at the time not moku hanga) is it not an issue using brushes or could it have been the maple plywood that I was using? I was looking for an easier way of making hundreds of circles for a background pattern rather than carving them all.
With interest,
Lee.
Dan,
Two tools I can think of will do the trick:
In fact, now that I think about it, if you can get a square nail you'd be in
business.
Maria
Message 4
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:16:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40224] ink types, new years cards
Send Message: To this poster
Hi,
I have had a drying problem with oil based inks that are in the can.
Even some that come directly from the company can be dried out if they
have been on the shelf too long. I solved the problem by buying only
tube inks. I have long been a fan of Dan Smith oil based inks. I do
however, think Graphic chemical makes a good product.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, all for the on time and the not on
time New Years cards. As usual mine will be mailed some time in the
late spring after we return from the Baja. I look forward to doing
the year of the Tiger. There is a small town close to here called
Santiago. A few years back we visited the Santiago zoo and they had a
magnificent Bengal tiger. Sure hope I can get there to do some work
up sketches, it would be wonderful to have a multi colored print done
from observing a tiger! Such a magnificent beast.
Marilynn
I have had a drying problem with oil based inks that are in the can.
Even some that come directly from the company can be dried out if they
have been on the shelf too long. I solved the problem by buying only
tube inks. I have long been a fan of Dan Smith oil based inks. I do
however, think Graphic chemical makes a good product.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, all for the on time and the not on
time New Years cards. As usual mine will be mailed some time in the
late spring after we return from the Baja. I look forward to doing
the year of the Tiger. There is a small town close to here called
Santiago. A few years back we visited the Santiago zoo and they had a
magnificent Bengal tiger. Sure hope I can get there to do some work
up sketches, it would be wonderful to have a multi colored print done
from observing a tiger! Such a magnificent beast.
Marilynn
Message 5
From: Amanda Miller
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:34:11 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40225] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
Barbara,
With the Akua Intaglio, to strip back the ink, do you run the prints through
the press with newsprint, or just stack with newsprint? I've had trouble
with paper getting saturated and sort of oily when I print many layers, but
maybe I just have too much ink. For me, western papers like Rives BFK or
Pescia have absorbed the ink better than the Japanese papers I've tried.
Jill, It has been a long time since I used oil-based ink and it was for
etching, but I remember putting a circle of wax paper right on top of the
ink in the can to prevent it from drying or forming a skin.
Best wishes,
Amanda
--
Amanda Gordon Miller
www.AmandaGordonMiller.com
EdamamePress.etsy.com
With the Akua Intaglio, to strip back the ink, do you run the prints through
the press with newsprint, or just stack with newsprint? I've had trouble
with paper getting saturated and sort of oily when I print many layers, but
maybe I just have too much ink. For me, western papers like Rives BFK or
Pescia have absorbed the ink better than the Japanese papers I've tried.
Jill, It has been a long time since I used oil-based ink and it was for
etching, but I remember putting a circle of wax paper right on top of the
ink in the can to prevent it from drying or forming a skin.
Best wishes,
Amanda
--
Amanda Gordon Miller
www.AmandaGordonMiller.com
EdamamePress.etsy.com
Message 6
From: Tibi Chelcea
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:23:56 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40226] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
I don't think that Akua inks are good for reduction prints. They dry by
absorption into the paper, which means it's very difficult to layer them and
have the upper layers dry.
I've used Caligo inks (mostly for printing relief, but also for intaglio
work) and I really like them. They clean up quite easily with water and soap
(some yellows are a bit more resistant, but you just have to scrub a bit
more). They smell and feel just like oil inks. They dry quite rapidly,
usually in less than a day (again it depends a bit on which color you're
using). The drawback is the relatively limited range of colors. However,
lately I've been using the transparent base mixed with gouache colors (I'm
using Holbein Acrylic Gouache) and it works extremely well and I get a
pretty large range of colors. Mixing it with gouache does not affect the
drying time (in fact it seems that it speeds it up a bit, maybe the because
the acrylic binder in the gouache). I've also tried mixing the transparent
base with pigment dispersions, and this also works quite well. Finally, they
still dry up in tins; they're, after all, oil-based.
Also, I don't know the situation in Cairo, but you can use Simple Green to
clean the oil inks, it works really well.
Hope this helps,
Tibi
absorption into the paper, which means it's very difficult to layer them and
have the upper layers dry.
I've used Caligo inks (mostly for printing relief, but also for intaglio
work) and I really like them. They clean up quite easily with water and soap
(some yellows are a bit more resistant, but you just have to scrub a bit
more). They smell and feel just like oil inks. They dry quite rapidly,
usually in less than a day (again it depends a bit on which color you're
using). The drawback is the relatively limited range of colors. However,
lately I've been using the transparent base mixed with gouache colors (I'm
using Holbein Acrylic Gouache) and it works extremely well and I get a
pretty large range of colors. Mixing it with gouache does not affect the
drying time (in fact it seems that it speeds it up a bit, maybe the because
the acrylic binder in the gouache). I've also tried mixing the transparent
base with pigment dispersions, and this also works quite well. Finally, they
still dry up in tins; they're, after all, oil-based.
Also, I don't know the situation in Cairo, but you can use Simple Green to
clean the oil inks, it works really well.
Hope this helps,
Tibi
Message 7
From: Louise Cass
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:28:00 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40227] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
Hi Jill - Since you like Graphic Chemical inks why don't you simply
switch to their waterbased inks -used with their 'Water Soluble Vehicle'
they handle and print like the oils; dry in a few hours- the cleanup is
easy with water and dish detergent which I found has to be done fairly
quickly as they're harder to clean off stuff when dry. I used to hand
colour prints done with Graph Chem WB various blacks and the lines
never bled! I'm assuming Graph Chem still produces a full range of these
inks as I 've switched to pigment and rice paste method -even easier to
clean up!
Louise Cass
switch to their waterbased inks -used with their 'Water Soluble Vehicle'
they handle and print like the oils; dry in a few hours- the cleanup is
easy with water and dish detergent which I found has to be done fairly
quickly as they're harder to clean off stuff when dry. I used to hand
colour prints done with Graph Chem WB various blacks and the lines
never bled! I'm assuming Graph Chem still produces a full range of these
inks as I 've switched to pigment and rice paste method -even easier to
clean up!
Louise Cass
Message 8
From: Daniel Dew
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:58:51 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40228] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
I've used them multiple times for reduction prints printing western
style with a brayer.
Just gotta plan, since they are not always opaque.
Dan Dew
style with a brayer.
Just gotta plan, since they are not always opaque.
Dan Dew
Message 9
From: thadeenz97 # verizon.net
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:11:59 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40229] RE: Ink suggestion/GC water based
Send Message: To this poster
Louise: I was actually looking into working with the GC waterbased, but a lot of feedback I got was negative concerning warping and degradation of the wood? I would love to know if you or anyone else could shed some light on waterbased inks and woodcuts (extra credit for reduction printing info!).
Thanks,
Thanks,
Message 10
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:49:13 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40230] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
I'm always surprised to hear people say that cleaning up oil base inks
with veggie oil is a "pain" - I can clean up as fast, or faster, with
oil than I can with solvents, so I think it is all in mastering the
system. The trick I use is to follow the veggie oil with plain old
rubbing alcohol, which cuts the oil in a flash. For brayers & such,
after the oil, I just wash in warm to hot water with a little dish
detergent which I keep in a pump bottle at the sink. On the alcohol
bottle I place a push/pull cap from a detergent bottle, this
eliminates chasing a cap all the time and is easy to keep the alcohol
closed and not evaporating. The oil I keep in any old squeeze bottle
(currently it is a previously owned mustard bottle) with a twist top.
This keeps it all pretty simple and EZ does it, is very cheap because
I buy the cheapest on sale stuff, and there are no odors and
everything is super non-toxic. Odorless mineral spirits may smell
better, but they are still solvent, still toxic. I save them for a
pinch if absolutely necessary - which is not often.
Cheers ~
Sharri
with veggie oil is a "pain" - I can clean up as fast, or faster, with
oil than I can with solvents, so I think it is all in mastering the
system. The trick I use is to follow the veggie oil with plain old
rubbing alcohol, which cuts the oil in a flash. For brayers & such,
after the oil, I just wash in warm to hot water with a little dish
detergent which I keep in a pump bottle at the sink. On the alcohol
bottle I place a push/pull cap from a detergent bottle, this
eliminates chasing a cap all the time and is easy to keep the alcohol
closed and not evaporating. The oil I keep in any old squeeze bottle
(currently it is a previously owned mustard bottle) with a twist top.
This keeps it all pretty simple and EZ does it, is very cheap because
I buy the cheapest on sale stuff, and there are no odors and
everything is super non-toxic. Odorless mineral spirits may smell
better, but they are still solvent, still toxic. I save them for a
pinch if absolutely necessary - which is not often.
Cheers ~
Sharri
Message 11
From: Viza Arlington
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 17:59:45 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40231] Re: nail punches
Send Message: To this poster
Lee,
for the circles on my Ox print (link below) i made my own wood burning tool
tip and it worked great. i was going to try hammering but the wood i used
was beech and it is so hard i was barely making a dent.
viza
http://vizart.blogspot.com/2009/03/ox-woodblock-print.html
for the circles on my Ox print (link below) i made my own wood burning tool
tip and it worked great. i was going to try hammering but the wood i used
was beech and it is so hard i was barely making a dent.
viza
http://vizart.blogspot.com/2009/03/ox-woodblock-print.html
Message 12
From: "Terry Peart"
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:04:28 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40232] Re: little introduction and ink suggestions
Send Message: To this poster
I must agree with Sharri's method of cleaning up oil inks. I would just add
that before you add the veggie oil that you remove as much ink as possible
from everything with paper. I use old telephone book pages. I wipe up all
excess ink with the paper, leaving very little ink to actually clean up. I
just toss the inky papers in the trash.
I've always wondered though, if it's possible to get one of those
spontaneous combustions from the oily papers, so I always let them air dry
first before disposing.
We learn so much from each other on this forum, keep it coming.
Terry
West Seattle
that before you add the veggie oil that you remove as much ink as possible
from everything with paper. I use old telephone book pages. I wipe up all
excess ink with the paper, leaving very little ink to actually clean up. I
just toss the inky papers in the trash.
I've always wondered though, if it's possible to get one of those
spontaneous combustions from the oily papers, so I always let them air dry
first before disposing.
We learn so much from each other on this forum, keep it coming.
Terry
West Seattle
Message 13
From: "Jeanne Norman Chase"
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:54:54 GMT
Subject: [Baren 40233] Re: embossing
Send Message: To this poster
Linda
Fluffy probably means "soft"
I use Rives Medium for my embossing.
Jeanne
Fluffy probably means "soft"
I use Rives Medium for my embossing.
Jeanne