Today's postings
- [Baren 38689] The Mysterious Chemical Bond (Tom Kristensen)
- [Baren 38690] Arty or Artsy (Gayle Wohlken)
- [Baren 38691] Re: Arty or Artsy (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
- [Baren 38692] Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:35:42 -0400 ("Phil Bivins")
- [Baren 38693] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V47 #4789 (Apr 20, 2009) (Marilynn Smith)
- [Baren 38694] RE: Not that old chestnut... ("Mark Mason")
- [Baren 38695] "Letters from the Studio" (Gayle Wohlken)
- [Baren 38696] "Dandelions and Grass" (Gayle Wohlken)
- [Baren 38697] Re: "Dandelions and Grass" (Elizabeth Atwood)
- [Baren 38698] Re: The Mysterious Chemical Bond (Graham Scholes)
- [Baren 38699] Annie's murky waters (Eileen Corder)
- [Baren 38700] Re: Arty or Artsy (Graham Scholes)
- [Baren 38701] Re: "Letters from the Studio" ("Phil Bivins")
- [Baren 38702] Re: Not that old chestnut... ("Ellen Shipley")
Message 1
From: Tom Kristensen
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:31:44 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38689] The Mysterious Chemical Bond
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The Portland cement mix used by Haku Maki is probably made with the
white PVA glue substance that is sold in many formulations under many
brand names. In Australia it comes in a green can and sold as
Bondcrete. My nose tells me that this white goo is pretty similar to
the woodworking glue we all know. The mix of one part cement, two
parts Bondcrete, one part water will make up a thick slurry that will
stick to a backing board, or anything else. I have not used this
stuff for printmaking but I have used it in building work and it will
set like stone and will not crack under pressure, or lose anything
when wet. You could add clean sharp sand to give the mix a firmer
texture. I might give this stuff a try myself, I do love those
mystery textures of Sosaku Hanga.
Tom in Australia.
white PVA glue substance that is sold in many formulations under many
brand names. In Australia it comes in a green can and sold as
Bondcrete. My nose tells me that this white goo is pretty similar to
the woodworking glue we all know. The mix of one part cement, two
parts Bondcrete, one part water will make up a thick slurry that will
stick to a backing board, or anything else. I have not used this
stuff for printmaking but I have used it in building work and it will
set like stone and will not crack under pressure, or lose anything
when wet. You could add clean sharp sand to give the mix a firmer
texture. I might give this stuff a try myself, I do love those
mystery textures of Sosaku Hanga.
Tom in Australia.
Message 2
From: Gayle Wohlken
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 13:54:24 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38690] Arty or Artsy
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Regarding your challenge, Graham, to understand the meaning of
"Artsy", I found this definition at one of the online dictionaries,
and if I'm reading it correctly, it is referring to people, not art.
See that beneath the meaning is also the word, "artsy". So if art
itself is "artsy", what would that mean? Would it mean something
considered a straight craft, such as making horseshoes, and turning it
into something decorative so it's no longer a shoe for a horse, but a
thing someone would hang on a wall with embellishments, and now it's
in the realm of art, but kind of pretentious in a way because it's no
longer a true useful horseshoe? Or does it mean something other than
that?
>
> arty
> /rti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-tee] Show IPA
> adjective, artier, artiest. Informal.
> characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious display of
> artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
> Also, artsy.
>
> Related forms:
> artily, adverb
> artiness, noun
> Dictionary.com Unabridged
> Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2009.
~Gayle
"Artsy", I found this definition at one of the online dictionaries,
and if I'm reading it correctly, it is referring to people, not art.
See that beneath the meaning is also the word, "artsy". So if art
itself is "artsy", what would that mean? Would it mean something
considered a straight craft, such as making horseshoes, and turning it
into something decorative so it's no longer a shoe for a horse, but a
thing someone would hang on a wall with embellishments, and now it's
in the realm of art, but kind of pretentious in a way because it's no
longer a true useful horseshoe? Or does it mean something other than
that?
>
> arty
> /rti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-tee] Show IPA
> adjective, artier, artiest. Informal.
> characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious display of
> artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
> Also, artsy.
>
> Related forms:
> artily, adverb
> artiness, noun
> Dictionary.com Unabridged
> Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2009.
~Gayle
Message 3
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:33:08 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38691] Re: Arty or Artsy
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When I chose my e-mail name, _artfulcarol at aol dot com _ (mailto:artful
carol at aol dot com ) , I was just thinking of art. Years later a friend, who is not a
native speaker of English said "artful" had a negative meaning. Probably she
was referring only to Dickens. Although she is a teacher of English as a
Second Language, she did not understand how "artful" was meant.
It's too late to change and that address has served me well, so far.
Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY
carol at aol dot com ) , I was just thinking of art. Years later a friend, who is not a
native speaker of English said "artful" had a negative meaning. Probably she
was referring only to Dickens. Although she is a teacher of English as a
Second Language, she did not understand how "artful" was meant.
It's too late to change and that address has served me well, so far.
Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY
Message 4
From: "Phil Bivins"
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:36:19 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38692] Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:35:42 -0400
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David and Tom,
Thank you both for your replies to my Haku Maki Technique question. David, unfortunately I do not have a way to send you a copy of the picture. But thank you for trying. On the can is the chemical notation of "CH3" and the words "Synthetic Adhesive" in English and the weight stated as 3 kg. The can is the same type that house paint would be in. Since this book is 30 years old I am sure, as Tom stated, there have been improved variations of what Haku used. I have seen a product called "Quickcrete" at some home improvement stores. Don't think this is the same. I did make a mixture of portland cement with a synthetic adhesive that one would use to adhere woodpaneling. This did not work at all. The mixture dried but when it did it cracked and was very brittle. I had no problem taking it off the woodblock as it did not even adhere. Fortunately for me I had some of the CSI stuff and it worked perfectly. Now I have a 100 pound bag of portland cement lying around collecting dust. I'll figure out something.
Though I have not posted in years, I continue to get emails. I can't believe how the website has grown. I believe David has been extremely beneficial in promoting this wonderful artform. David, I remember early on you sent out to some of us artist proofs of some of your work. I still have them and cherish them. Thank you for all that you have done. You have come along way and have done a great thing.
Phil
Thank you both for your replies to my Haku Maki Technique question. David, unfortunately I do not have a way to send you a copy of the picture. But thank you for trying. On the can is the chemical notation of "CH3" and the words "Synthetic Adhesive" in English and the weight stated as 3 kg. The can is the same type that house paint would be in. Since this book is 30 years old I am sure, as Tom stated, there have been improved variations of what Haku used. I have seen a product called "Quickcrete" at some home improvement stores. Don't think this is the same. I did make a mixture of portland cement with a synthetic adhesive that one would use to adhere woodpaneling. This did not work at all. The mixture dried but when it did it cracked and was very brittle. I had no problem taking it off the woodblock as it did not even adhere. Fortunately for me I had some of the CSI stuff and it worked perfectly. Now I have a 100 pound bag of portland cement lying around collecting dust. I'll figure out something.
Though I have not posted in years, I continue to get emails. I can't believe how the website has grown. I believe David has been extremely beneficial in promoting this wonderful artform. David, I remember early on you sent out to some of us artist proofs of some of your work. I still have them and cherish them. Thank you for all that you have done. You have come along way and have done a great thing.
Phil
Message 5
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:52:05 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38693] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V47 #4789 (Apr 20, 2009)
Send Message: To this poster
While doing watercolors when we were camping I had a young boy
watching me. He asked me how I knew what color to use. I said it is
a combination of training and experience. Art school taught me color
theory, experience taught me how to use it. In the making of art I
know I am often off into my right brain where things flow in a
different manner than if I was preplanning every move. Perhaps that
is the difference between art and craft. Craft is deliberate, art
flows from the creative part of the brain. I can say I can not see
how an artist can create without some grasp of craft. I could add one
more word, "technique", how does that fit in? I looked it up and one
definition says ," the execution or performance of an artistic work or
a scientific procedure." Using the dictionary once again here is the
definition of craft, " an activity involving skill in making things by
hand." And the definition of art,"the expression or application of
human creative skill and imagination,typically in a visual form such
as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily
for their beauty or emotional power."
In short craft equals skill. At equals creativity.
Marilynn
watching me. He asked me how I knew what color to use. I said it is
a combination of training and experience. Art school taught me color
theory, experience taught me how to use it. In the making of art I
know I am often off into my right brain where things flow in a
different manner than if I was preplanning every move. Perhaps that
is the difference between art and craft. Craft is deliberate, art
flows from the creative part of the brain. I can say I can not see
how an artist can create without some grasp of craft. I could add one
more word, "technique", how does that fit in? I looked it up and one
definition says ," the execution or performance of an artistic work or
a scientific procedure." Using the dictionary once again here is the
definition of craft, " an activity involving skill in making things by
hand." And the definition of art,"the expression or application of
human creative skill and imagination,typically in a visual form such
as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily
for their beauty or emotional power."
In short craft equals skill. At equals creativity.
Marilynn
Message 6
From: "Mark Mason"
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:56:38 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38694] RE: Not that old chestnut...
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I probably shouldn't contribute to this tired old art/craft debate because
it winds me up too much, but.
I really don't like the inferred snobbery of those who would rather be
considered an artist, and I detest the debasement of the word 'craft' to
mean not much more than a box of pre-printed clip art and pretty paper from
a TV shopping channel.
J Cloutier, I agree with you.
"Craft is a Pastime" & "Craft is the expression of skill; art is the
expression of talent." Oh please. no. could we sit back and think a bit. So
a Craftsman is a talentless hobbyist? Let's not peddle this kind of tired
mythology.
Someone will say next that you should never use black in a painting.
Art without craft is an inarticulate loud noise. Art with craft is a
conversation. Craft without art is an empty vessel, craft with art is beauty
with a purpose.
Art is the thought, but craft is the language, the means of communication.
In the UK we had the Art and Crafts movement at the turn of the last
century, and many other countries had similar art movements at around the
same time. To them art and craft went hand in hand. They were part and
parcel of what it is to be creative.
As a working class Northerner I've no problem with being considered a
craftsman who adds a little artistry to the work I produce.
Mark.
it winds me up too much, but.
I really don't like the inferred snobbery of those who would rather be
considered an artist, and I detest the debasement of the word 'craft' to
mean not much more than a box of pre-printed clip art and pretty paper from
a TV shopping channel.
J Cloutier, I agree with you.
"Craft is a Pastime" & "Craft is the expression of skill; art is the
expression of talent." Oh please. no. could we sit back and think a bit. So
a Craftsman is a talentless hobbyist? Let's not peddle this kind of tired
mythology.
Someone will say next that you should never use black in a painting.
Art without craft is an inarticulate loud noise. Art with craft is a
conversation. Craft without art is an empty vessel, craft with art is beauty
with a purpose.
Art is the thought, but craft is the language, the means of communication.
In the UK we had the Art and Crafts movement at the turn of the last
century, and many other countries had similar art movements at around the
same time. To them art and craft went hand in hand. They were part and
parcel of what it is to be creative.
As a working class Northerner I've no problem with being considered a
craftsman who adds a little artistry to the work I produce.
Mark.
Message 7
From: Gayle Wohlken
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:56:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38695] "Letters from the Studio"
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Phil, I'm posting twice but had to jump in and say hello. I always
felt we were partners in a way since we were the two who Dave featured
way back in the early days of Baren when the Encyclopedia of
Printmaking was being formed. We were under the topic, "The Personal
Face of Printmaking -- "Letters from the Studio" http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/topics/008/008_frame.html
I'm glad you're still with us.
~Gayle
felt we were partners in a way since we were the two who Dave featured
way back in the early days of Baren when the Encyclopedia of
Printmaking was being formed. We were under the topic, "The Personal
Face of Printmaking -- "Letters from the Studio" http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/topics/008/008_frame.html
I'm glad you're still with us.
~Gayle
Message 8
From: Gayle Wohlken
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:08:55 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38696] "Dandelions and Grass"
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For those who were interested in the image size of the "Dandelions and
Grass" print, I just received this message from Frank C. Lewis curator
of the Wriston Art Galleries at Lawrence University.
> Dear Ms. Wohlken,
>
> The image part of the print measures 14 3/4 x 8 3/4. I looked
> carefully to see if there was any sign of a seam or join and do not
> find one. Under high magnification I can find no evidence of the
> typical splintering that often happens with woodcuts - though of
> course the Japanese were able to avoid that in their woodcuts so I
> guess it could be a very close/tight grained wood but the precision
> still suggests wood engraving to me. We don't have any Japanese
> prints here that show the kind of extraordinary detail that I see
> in areas like the dandelion. I do know that there were wood
> engravings that large in the 19th century so I believe that it still
> was possible to make one in 1973. There is some evidence in the
> solid black areas of a slight end grain texture.
>
> Hope this if of interest.
>
> Frank
And I apologize for posting three times, but thought this one was
worth sending right out to you as we have been waiting to know the
size of the print.
~Gayle
Grass" print, I just received this message from Frank C. Lewis curator
of the Wriston Art Galleries at Lawrence University.
> Dear Ms. Wohlken,
>
> The image part of the print measures 14 3/4 x 8 3/4. I looked
> carefully to see if there was any sign of a seam or join and do not
> find one. Under high magnification I can find no evidence of the
> typical splintering that often happens with woodcuts - though of
> course the Japanese were able to avoid that in their woodcuts so I
> guess it could be a very close/tight grained wood but the precision
> still suggests wood engraving to me. We don't have any Japanese
> prints here that show the kind of extraordinary detail that I see
> in areas like the dandelion. I do know that there were wood
> engravings that large in the 19th century so I believe that it still
> was possible to make one in 1973. There is some evidence in the
> solid black areas of a slight end grain texture.
>
> Hope this if of interest.
>
> Frank
And I apologize for posting three times, but thought this one was
worth sending right out to you as we have been waiting to know the
size of the print.
~Gayle
Message 9
From: Elizabeth Atwood
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:17:10 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38697] Re: "Dandelions and Grass"
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Gayle................
Have we heard anything from Andy English, our wood engraver of book
plates and very fine work????
His opinion would be of interest to us of the woodcut group.
ElizA
Have we heard anything from Andy English, our wood engraver of book
plates and very fine work????
His opinion would be of interest to us of the woodcut group.
ElizA
Message 10
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:28:07 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38698] Re: The Mysterious Chemical Bond
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The light came on with Tom's response.
I have used this mix for construction. It is the formula if you need
to put a thing skim of concrete over the top of other concrete to
level it or fill in depressions and small holes... It stick like the
preverbaland will not chip of .... ever. Just laying over a cement
mix will not hold.
Regards
Graham
I have used this mix for construction. It is the formula if you need
to put a thing skim of concrete over the top of other concrete to
level it or fill in depressions and small holes... It stick like the
preverbaland will not chip of .... ever. Just laying over a cement
mix will not hold.
Regards
Graham
Message 11
From: Eileen Corder
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:40:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38699] Annie's murky waters
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Hi Annie,
Your drowning/drowned women calls up emotions which to me is a positive
thing. I admire it, esp the contrast between the boat and the woman.
Darkness is a part of light just as death is a part of life. (I would have
responded privately but couldn't find your email address.)
Peace,
Eileen
Your drowning/drowned women calls up emotions which to me is a positive
thing. I admire it, esp the contrast between the boat and the woman.
Darkness is a part of light just as death is a part of life. (I would have
responded privately but couldn't find your email address.)
Peace,
Eileen
Message 12
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 15:51:30 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38700] Re: Arty or Artsy
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I wasn’t challenging Galye ....
just throwing out the word that has taken on a negative meaning in
recent times.
Artsy is not defined in my Webster’s Dictionary. The Merriam Webster
Collegiate Dictionary defines it as .... Arty. When you look up
that word on http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artsy it
states.... characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious
display of artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
I gather from that, that it therefore takes on the negative
connotation I suggested, which is too bad because I use to like the
word. It rolls off the tongue nicely.... ( Regarding your challenge, Graham, to understand the meaning of
> "Artsy", I found this definition at one of the online dictionaries,
> and if I'm reading it correctly, it is referring to people, not
> art. See that beneath the meaning is also the word, "artsy". So if
> art itself is "artsy", what would that mean? Would it mean
> something considered a straight craft, such as making horseshoes,
> and turning it into something decorative so it's no longer a shoe
> for a horse, but a thing someone would hang on a wall with
> embellishments, and now it's in the realm of art, but kind of
> pretentious in a way because it's no longer a true useful
> horseshoe? Or does it mean something other than that?
>
>>
>> arty
>> /rti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-tee] Show IPA
>> adjective, artier, artiest. Informal.
>> characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious display
>> of artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
>> Also, artsy.
>>
>> Origin:
>> 190005; art 1 + -y 1
>>
>> Related forms:
>> artily, adverb
>> artiness, noun
>> Dictionary.com Unabridged
>> Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2009.
>
> ~Gayle
just throwing out the word that has taken on a negative meaning in
recent times.
Artsy is not defined in my Webster’s Dictionary. The Merriam Webster
Collegiate Dictionary defines it as .... Arty. When you look up
that word on http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/artsy it
states.... characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious
display of artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
I gather from that, that it therefore takes on the negative
connotation I suggested, which is too bad because I use to like the
word. It rolls off the tongue nicely.... ( Regarding your challenge, Graham, to understand the meaning of
> "Artsy", I found this definition at one of the online dictionaries,
> and if I'm reading it correctly, it is referring to people, not
> art. See that beneath the meaning is also the word, "artsy". So if
> art itself is "artsy", what would that mean? Would it mean
> something considered a straight craft, such as making horseshoes,
> and turning it into something decorative so it's no longer a shoe
> for a horse, but a thing someone would hang on a wall with
> embellishments, and now it's in the realm of art, but kind of
> pretentious in a way because it's no longer a true useful
> horseshoe? Or does it mean something other than that?
>
>>
>> arty
>> /rti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-tee] Show IPA
>> adjective, artier, artiest. Informal.
>> characterized by a showy, pretentious, and often spurious display
>> of artistic interest, manner, or mannerism.
>> Also, artsy.
>>
>> Origin:
>> 190005; art 1 + -y 1
>>
>> Related forms:
>> artily, adverb
>> artiness, noun
>> Dictionary.com Unabridged
>> Based on the Random House Dictionary, Random House, Inc. 2009.
>
> ~Gayle
Message 13
From: "Phil Bivins"
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:03:13 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38701] Re: "Letters from the Studio"
Send Message: To this poster
Thank you Gayle, I have always enjoyed your prints! I can't believe its been
11 years, WOW!! Time flies.
Phil
11 years, WOW!! Time flies.
Phil
Message 14
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:16:47 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38702] Re: Not that old chestnut...
Send Message: To this poster
>Art without craft is an inarticulate loud noise. Art with craft is a conversation. Craft without art is an empty vessel, craft with art is beauty with a purpose.
Art is the thought, but craft is the language, the means of communication.
In the UK we had the Art and Crafts movement at the turn of the last century, and many other countries had similar art movements at around the same time. To them art and craft went hand in hand. They were part and parcel of what it is to be creative.<
I was about to bring up the Arts and Crafts movement myself. I have always been attracted to the works of that era. Cultures have always added decorative touches to their utilitarian items, taking pride and pleasure in their beauty.
I have a hard time appreciating art for art's sake. It has to have a purpose to me or it's a waste of time. Beauty is a valid purpose, something that uplifts the spirit.
This may tweak a couple of noses, but to my way of thinking, art that "makes people think" is just another form of advertising. The cause is commonly "screw the status quo." A political broadsheet isn't meant to be admired, it's meant to be eye-catching.
Guess that's another can of worms. ;-j
Ellen Shipley
-(>-----~
Ellen Shipley
Trompt As Writ
~-----
Art is the thought, but craft is the language, the means of communication.
In the UK we had the Art and Crafts movement at the turn of the last century, and many other countries had similar art movements at around the same time. To them art and craft went hand in hand. They were part and parcel of what it is to be creative.<
I was about to bring up the Arts and Crafts movement myself. I have always been attracted to the works of that era. Cultures have always added decorative touches to their utilitarian items, taking pride and pleasure in their beauty.
I have a hard time appreciating art for art's sake. It has to have a purpose to me or it's a waste of time. Beauty is a valid purpose, something that uplifts the spirit.
This may tweak a couple of noses, but to my way of thinking, art that "makes people think" is just another form of advertising. The cause is commonly "screw the status quo." A political broadsheet isn't meant to be admired, it's meant to be eye-catching.
Guess that's another can of worms. ;-j
Ellen Shipley
-(>-----~
Ellen Shipley
Trompt As Writ
~-----