Today's postings

  1. [Baren 38361] Re: does anyone draw anymore? (Tim AumAn)
  2. [Baren 38362] Re: EZ Scroll Mount (Shelley Hagan)
  3. [Baren 38363] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin ("Louise Cass")
  4. [Baren 38364] Re: does anyone draw anymore? ("Maria Arango")
  5. [Baren 38365] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin ("Oscar Bearinger")
  6. [Baren 38366] Re: does anyone draw anymore? (ArtfulCarol #
  7. [Baren 38367] Re: does anyone draw anymore? (Graham Scholes)
  8. [Baren 38368] Re: does anyone draw anymore? (Graham Scholes)
  9. [Baren 38369] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4740 (Mar 13, 2009) (Marilynn Smith)
  10. [Baren 38370] team of oxen ("bobcatpath #")
  11. [Baren 38371] Re: does anyone draw anymore? ("Oscar Bearinger")
  12. [Baren 38372] Re: Baren Digest (old) V46 #4740 (josepht280 #
  13. [Baren 38373] Re: does anyone draw anymore? (Tiberiu Chelcea)
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Message 1
From: Tim AumAn
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:26:44 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38361] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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The computer is merely a tool, just like a pencil, pen, brush, and
even a press or baren is a tool. I am sure that in the early days of
printmaking, 'true' artists scoffed at those lazy and unimaginative
slackers who were mechanically reproducing the same image,over and
over. The sophistication of a tool,be it high or low, does not
validate or invalidate the work.

Let's take this to another art form. Is a poet any less of a poet if
they use a computer rather than a pencil?

Always give 100% at work....

12% Monday
23% Tuesday
40% Wednesday
20% Thursday
5% Friday
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Message 2
From: Shelley Hagan
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:18:11 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38362] Re: EZ Scroll Mount
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What a terrific post, Annie. I have some antique prayer shawls and other
textiles which I have never quite know how to hang. The longer ones are easy
- I just drape them over a dowel rod - but the shorter ones have proved
more difficult. This would be a great way to display them without having to
poke holes in the fabric.

I agree with Plannedscapes, every one should have art instruction. It boosts
confidence, teaches patience and discipline, and takes the 'mystery' out of
art, making it more accessible to the average Joe. In turn, I think, this
helps Joe feel more confident to purchase art as he now has an basic
appreciation and understanding of it.
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Message 3
From: "Louise Cass"
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:03:49 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38363] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin
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rect? and did you use a v large brush (like the Chinese) to apply the black for printing the lineswork? - I'm just amazed that the prints come out so clean - surely one has to cut v deeply around the lines or what am I missing re this method??

bwLouise C
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Message 4
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:07:37 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38364] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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For Sharri, one of the shows was dubbed "Contemporary Printmaking" which
struck me as a grandiose title for what in my opinion is a very narrow use
of the medium.

My original post had nothing to do with using the computer or scoffing at
anything. I was pointing out the method of using a collage of literal
reproductions of lifted and mostly commercial imagery as a basis for
creating an "original" image without much apparent modification aside from
grouping and re-arrangement. But what do I know, anyway...

Good comments everyone!


       Maria Arango
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Message 5
From: "Oscar Bearinger"
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:12:11 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38365] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin
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good morning
I really appreciated Ray Hudson's poem at the beginning of the Chinese woodblock article. the first section, on drawing, is the best poetic view of this work that I have ever read. thanks, Ray. and I do love your delicate touch in your work; I am fortunate to have one print that you have done (I think the Chinese pig card).
beautiful and thanks.

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Message 6
From: ArtfulCarol #
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:18:35 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38366] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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I draw, I draw. Pencil drawings.. It became a satisfying habit.
I also taught Daring Drawing to elementary school students. They did very
very well and were never intimidated.

My drawings are of hands, feet, pears, peppers, "Pillow Personalities",
Historical Buildings (You may know of the Federal copyright case I won, but I
hope you never have that experience!).
I have tried, but my drawings do not lend themselves to woodblock prints.

I have been drawing my husband's hands for more than 10 years. Every time
we take a plane I "do " his hands. This has resulted in passing the time
pleasantly and in many hand portraits.
As far as feet, I started doing my own , then discovered that my sister has
the most beautiful feet, so she is my model.
"Pillow Personalities" have their own story:
Early Riser Art
With reference to art, I had a problem to overcome. I was not able to get
myself out of bed in the morning for an early start.
I found the following solution. The night before, I arranged my pencils and
paper beside my bed. Instead of turning over for a few more winks, I
started drawing the first thing I lay my eyes on--my pillows.
Thus developed "Pillow Personalities", faces I "see" in the depressions and
creases of the pillows .When I visited friends for the weekend, a drawing was
one of the hostess gifts they appreciated.
My art took on an interesting expansion. It became broader based and more
varied, always with a humorous touch. I couldn't wait to get up and look at
the pillows.
This pillow art supplemented my more serious art, which I did after
The name of my game is HABIT.

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Message 7
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:43:35 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38367] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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The problem with a computer as a tool it does not demand discipline.
It is an do and undo tool with no consequences as required by drawing

The computer is an important tool but is not a substitute for
drawing. None of my pencils, brushes, chisels etc have do and undo,
drag and drop, or cut and paste buttons.

Tim said....
> “Let's take this to another art form. Is a poet any less of a poet
> if they use a computer rather than a pencil“?

That is a convenience factor and does not cross over to the physical
skills required of drawing....

Ruth said....
“It seems to me we're all missing the fact that drawing is one form
of art by itself“.

Drawing, (line/shape/colour) isn’t “one form” it is the path to
art.... rules of the road if you will.
It is the foundation to achieve the end results ..... Art .... in any
chosen “ism“ as seen by the mind‘s eye.

Aren‘t we having fun.... (
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Message 8
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:46:42 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38368] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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ArtfulCarol wrote:

> I draw, I draw. Pencil drawings.. It became a satisfying habit.
> The name of my game is HABIT.

Bulls eye!!!!!!!
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Message 9
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 16:07:17 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38369] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4740 (Mar 13, 2009)
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". They were
attempts to capture the model in whatever pose he or she held that
week, but they were not art. Those students may take those drawings
and make them into art, though."

I have to disagree with this statement. I think a drawing is art and
can be art in its own right. I drew and painted watercolors every
Friday for ten years and some of my brush drawings reside in frames.
There is a well known artist here in the Baja, his work is sent to the
Smithsonian via microfilm. His wife is the one who sells his work
from their at home gallery and she often sells his sketches. He gets
annoyed by that because as many of us know our sketches are often the
foundation for other types of works. But, in my opinion a drawing is
a piece of art.

As for assembling a collage from anything found, rather it be from the
internet or whatever, collage is art. I am doing a collagraph for my
ox, that is an inked collage. Mine is made of mat board, sand and
crushed lobster shell, not photos or others work. Using tools is a
great and often helpful source. Last year and this year I sorted
through internet photos for my Chinese new years card. My rat was a
combination of a lot of things. I saw the flaw in the wood as a good
start, I found an interesting tail and I drew from the photos until I
had the pose I wanted. This year for my ox I sifted through and found
a pose that suited my idea, did several drawings elongating it and
putting it into the shape I wanted and than I went all over the
internet studying oxen anatomy so I had some clue as to how the shapes
I was going to create would fit together. It is the creative process
that makes us artists, not the tools we use.

However, when I took my printmaking classes the professor had students
put anything they chose onto the lino blocks, often they were magazine
photos or calendar photos, not original drawings. This is craft not
art, he was teaching technique, not drawing. Many a craft store has
"painting classes". These are made up of people who take in a
calendar picture and have the teacher teach them strokes for putting
the picture onto canvas, it is technique they are being taught. An
excellent example is tole painting. One takes an image from a book
and transfers it to a varnished piece of wood and uses different
strokes to color in the design. These things have been going on for
centuries. Look at traditional hanga, you had the artist, you had the
carver and the printer, each skilled at their particular task. Good
craftsmanship is an admirable and a wonderful talent that often takes
many years to acquire. The artist is the one who has created the
design. In art school if we used a photo as a reference we were
always asked if we took the photo. Because it was expected that you
were using your own imagery, not someone else's. Personally I like to
use my drawings and often draw directly on the block, either from
something I am looking at or something I "see" in the block itself.

I was a late bloomer. For a lot of years I was working in my husbands
office, raising kids and doing tons of volunteer work and taking tole
painting. One day my husband said you should do something for
yourself. I said I wanted to learn to draw and take a college class.
Half way through that class the prof said to me you are having a ball
with this why not go for the degree?? I had all my earlier credits in
line and held junior status as a student. It took me five years to
get that degree and it all started with the desire to learn to draw. I
had the creative juices, I just needed guidance to put them to work.
To me, no matter where you land, be it collage from all sorts of
sources, abstract work or realistic, the foundation of good art is
knowing how to draw.

My two cents worth, even though it is late in the discussion.
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Message 10
From: "bobcatpath #"
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:07:10 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38370] team of oxen
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hello to all bareners
i just put my team of oxen into the mail stream , bound for all over the world
if anyone does not get theirs in a few days please let me know
( Bea Gold = i am sending you one too!)
i have received 17 OX cards so far- thank you to each one
being an oily black and white type
my favorites are the black and whites-only four out of seventeen- mine makes five
and adds to my series of 'People working' as it show a friend , Gretchen, of Yellow Birch Farm,
who raised a pair of castrated boy calves into a trained team

interesting discussions of late
finding the time to sit down and comment is the catch

on series and building a cohesive body of work-
just do what you love and it will happened all by itself-
after approximately 40 years of doing woodcuts
i have series of people working , birds and animals , cats and dogs, women/the figure
birthing, broadsides(theater/political posters),solstice cards. self portraits ,etc
so really anything i do jumps into one of those series
people say they always know my work when they see it

so that feels good
i credit the BAREN with keeping me motivated , while living well out of the main stream
i learn so much from receiving each exchange-about paper and printing methods

so happy Year of the OX to all
thanks for being out there
npw i will go back to chipping ice off the roof !!

Gillyin Gatto in still- freezing MAINE
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Message 11
From: "Oscar Bearinger"
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:12:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38371] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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> Let's take this to another art form. Is a poet any less of a poet if they
> use a computer rather than a pencil?

ah Tim
as a poet myself, this is the question I was trying to dodge. it is a very
important question to me. the change in language, syntax, grammar since the
dawn of the cybernetic age in 1947 is it fundamental?

just one small aspect of this in my own awareness: email has caused a
change in how people (at a distance, not face-to-face) speak to each other.
I am very troubled by this. I have found no one who agrees with me. I know
that thinking through and answering this question, is not possible in an
email exchange (ie it would takes pages, and days, and some silence).

another example: the very function of writing on a monitor, changes what
comes out of the body of the person writing.

I do not want to disturb or offend anyone, however, I cannot apologise if I
am being obscure. these are important and valuable questions, Tim.

great conversation, folks

oh, by the way, Tim, they say you need to give 110% at work (if you want to
be a real man!) :o)
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Message 12
From: josepht280 #
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:39:08 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38372] Re: Baren Digest (old) V46 #4740
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Drawing is good. Why should someone else's art bother you? If people respond to be it. Different tastes make a delicious meal.

Joe T
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Message 13
From: Tiberiu Chelcea
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:47:40 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38373] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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A bit late to the discussion, but here it goes.

Just to get this out of the way. There's plenty of drawing in current printmaking (and by "drawing" I assume that it was meant just photorealistic/figurative drawing).


I went last year to SGC, and, as far as I could see, the vast majority of prints at the open portfolio presentation did not incorporate any collage/photographic printmaking technique. And even if they would have, so what? Drawing's just a tool. Does not make the print better or worse by itself. Using images from public domain or your digital camera again does not make the print good or bad by itself. Yes, it's used more than in the past, but that's just our age: there's plenty of digital photos out there, plenty of cheap and fast technologies for incorporating photos in prints, why not use them? More power to you. If you can do/say something good with them, great! Probably, most of the time, the end result is not that good, but, then again, most of the drawings out there are not that good either.

I like what Tom Kristensen and Annie Bissett do, and don't think they are lesser artists if they use public domain images or don't draw every day. Where would this leave David Bull, that uses photos from his journeys as the basis for woodblock prints? And I don't believe that the argument that "they are woodcuts" and they "have your hand solidly in it" counts at all: where does that leave someone like Mike Lyon and his large woodcuts produced from photos using a computer for color separation and a router for carving?