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Message 1
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:13:00 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38331] Re: Baren Digest (old) V46 #4737
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Shelley, I , too, am revisiting prints that I made years ago, not starting
from scratch, but changing things, eliminating or adding.
Recently during the same studio visit, one of the collectors bought my most
recent woodblock print, and the other, his CEO, bought the very first one I
ever did..

About your project with the kindergarten class--.you said that you gave them
3x3 paper to draw on.. Was that inches or feet? Inches would be too small;
so it must have been feet.. That project sounds exciting for all. Good luck.
Carol Lyons

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Message 2
From: "Louise Cass"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:52:56 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38332] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin
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Hi Julio - can't find the last Baren Blog on Chinese printing?? but have gone to these v interesting links - Bea Gold doesn't show how her lines were printed?

The video from China is good and I find myself being interested in experimenting with it - it may be a more spontaneous method for multiple colour printing (for my needs) than the Japanese which I've found rather complicated and slow ... I can follow the brushing on of inks/colours with such large brushes but how do they ink for the 'key' or line block?

I'd appreciate any more explanations from those who know..
thanks... Louise

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Message 3
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:00:47 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38333] does anyone draw anymore?
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I just saw a couple of print exhibits online and couldn't help but to ask
that question:
Does anyone draw anymore?

The "modern" prints were, in my view, a bunch of collaged appropriated
imagery mostly from the web or rehashed from magazines. Ads in magazines and
any web content seem to be considered in the public domain these days, I
wonder what commercial photographers, artists and the magazines would say
about this "fair use" by printmaking artists.

In any case, most of the processes shown according to the various
"printmakers" were combinations of these scanned images, arranged in
Photoshop, printed onto either solar plates or etching plates or litho
plates or some variation and then inked and printed. Some graffiti like
marks are often printed on top. Okaaaaayyyy...

In other cases, the prints were very obviously photographs, transferred onto
a variety of plates and then printed to look like...photographs transferred
onto plates and then printed. Okaaaay!

So I guess I must be out of touch with these modern techniques. To me this
modern imagery all looks like rehashed and collaged photographs, not like
the prints I know and love. Are printmakers tending toward the scrapbook
approach? I guess I think anything that starts as a photograph looks like a
photograph, no matter how cleverly it is altered in Photoshop and/or
collaged with other photographs, in my arcane and obviously
not-at-all-in-touch-with-the-art-world opinion.

SO! What happened to drawing? The hand (creative mind?) of the artist is
missing in this modern art world. So is this it? No more dreaming? No more
drawing? No more coming up with original self-created ideas and sketching
them on paper?

Anyone else seen this phenomenon? Is the mind of the artist gone for good or
is this just a temporary thing?

Maria, with the disclaimer that I'm not picking on anyone, just merely
asking whatup wit dat?

O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
       Maria Arango
  http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
 O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O

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Message 4
From: "Mike Lyon"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:23:12 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38334] RE: does anyone draw anymore?
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Maria wrote:
|Anyone else seen this phenomenon?
|Is the mind of the artist gone for good or
|is this just a temporary thing?

So I says, "let's don't confuse the "mind of the artist" with "eye-hand
coordination" please!" (not that I'm coming out in favor of more graffiti
covered collages of appropriated photo images)!

Mike

Mike Lyon
Kansas City, MO
http://mlyon.com

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Message 5
From: Darrell Madis
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:24:08 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38335] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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Good for you, Maria. I've seen this too, and I've never seen one of this kind of print that I thought was a good work of art.

Darrell

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Message 6
From: carol Montgomery
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:34:19 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38336] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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Hi, Maria - I think this kind of printmaking started with Robert Raushenberg - it's a modern style using found objects. And it's really not that modern - Marcel Duchamp started it all. Carol Montgomery, Helena, MT

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Message 7
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 16:38:31 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38337] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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Creating a hand drawing of an original image is hardly "eye-hand
coordination". I am not talking about defining drawing as the reproduction
of reality in a believable way...or juggling, which also requires eye-hand
coordination :-)

My inquiry is about "creating" an original image from the mind of the artist
and subsequently rendering that onto a surface by means of the hand of the
artist, which forcefully is directed by the mind of the artist.

Maria

O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
       Maria Arango
  http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
 O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O

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Message 8
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:07:43 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38338] Re: More on Chinese block printing: shui-yin
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Bea, I'm so delighted that you're back! We have missed you. Glad to
hear you are involved in a fun project, but will miss getting an ox
from you. I'll be happy to send one of mine to you when I get around
to doing them - it looks like it will not be until the end of April.
There are just too many things to do - and to squeeze them all into
one lifetime is a major challenge ;-)

Cheers ~
Sharri

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Message 9
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:11:21 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38339] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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Maria Arango wrote:
> Does anyone draw anymore?


My goodness are you ever on the mark Maria.

The longest distance in the world is ....
“from the eye, to the mind, to the hand, and back“ and it takes hard
work to negotiate it.

I started my quest about 5 or 6 years ago and boiled it down to ....
Do and Undo Photoshop stuff....oops, wrong adjective.... Junk.....
still wrong adjective... Crap. Oh oh... I’m in big trouble
now .... or is that again.... no, I thing it is .... yet.

Certainly it saddens me to see what is happening with the new
generation of persons that have not developed drawing skills. It
ceases to amaze me the number of people that pick up a computer and
slap stuff into it and then proceed to produce what they think is art.

You can take it one step further and look at the newbies doing
abstract art.... I have met many that whack shape, line and colour
together, frame it and submit it as art.
I believe they think that if the Impressionist master did it that they
can do it. What they seem to forget and probably don’t know, is that
the masters knew how to draw first. They knew composition, rules of
perspective, colour theory .... did I miss anything? When the masters
had that ability and knowledge under their belt they then proceeded to
ask themselves.... “I wonder what if” and so along came the
expressionists and abstractionists.

Since what goes around, comes around, I believe the skill of drawing
will come back....
It will take education and a closer scrutiny by competent persons that
have the skills and knowledge to maintain standards and yet not stifle
creativity.

An interesting competition took place locally that was for a public
sculpture. The adjudicators were ..... two politicians, a commercial
art gallery owner, and a person that co-ordinates a local art
exhibition.... Not a trained person in the lot. As long as this
sort of standard is out there then the true requirements of art could
be lost.

You can quote me ....

“There is no substitute for the ability to draw“

Graham

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Message 10
From: carol Montgomery
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:41:22 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38340] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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Hi, All - I see this as an extension of the current reliance on technology to fix things. For instance, there is a program that vocal artists now use to fix their wrong notes. They don't have to sing well just look good (of course, that can be fixed up by Photoshop, too). It makes you appreciate live music like opera where the singers have been taught to sing. I am sure that some of the photo printers can draw - it's just a current and popular style to use photo techniques in printmaking. Sincerely, Carol Montgomery, Helena, MT

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Message 11
From: "Louise Cass"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:57:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38341] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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My 2 cents: as Carol obseves this collage/grafitti stuff has been done
before BUT perhaps it's all too easy now with computers being able to 'lift'
images from any source and process thru' photoshop, etc to produce art more
quickly - it goes along with the emphasis today on 'multitasking' - -speed
being of the essence. Producing original images 'by means of the hand of the
artist' is a slower process and perhaps on the way to becoming rarer but I
don't really think so - there's still so much 'hand' stuff
around -everything is 'grist for the mill' as they say and we have to accept
the many diverse techniques for producing art even if we don't like all of
it....there is such a variety of audiences (and paucity of buyers) for
what's on the market out there.....and this applies to all of the arts!

Louise

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Message 12
From: "DePry Clan"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:19:15 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38342] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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It seems from my neck of the woods in teaching printmaking, a vast majority
of students can't draw by choice. This especially the case with
photo-student. The other phenom I have seen is this 'instant gratification'
culture we live in. Where anybody can point and click and make an image;
even witheir GPS or phone! For me to get some students to make something
with their hands is an act of congress when they know that all they have to
do is push a button is a hard reality to cope with and puts my teaching an
arcane process to bed. Don't get me wrong, there are still people willing to
make something with their hands but as technology surpasses culture, then
why do it? you do what you do.
Double D

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Message 13
From: Ruth Leaf
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:24:09 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38343] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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It seems to me we're all missing the fact that drawing is one form
of art by itself. What others create with whatever materials are
available
Is another form of art you may or may not like.To me drawing allows
me to know what's going on in my mind. Sometimes I DRAW directly on
The plate. For all of us who do old fashioned woodcuts,etchings or
collographs there is drawing involved even if it's abstract. Ruth

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Message 14
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:27:10 GMT
Subject: [Baren 38344] Re: does anyone draw anymore?
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I guess Ruth's comment is more to my point. My query regarded not so much
the literal act of drawing as a skill versus the computer or anything else,
but the removal of a creative-artist-involved step or two or three from the
process of image making.
As I have it figured in my twisted little head, the creative process of
image making should involve the artist's vision. In my opinion, the more of
the artist's original and particular vision that is translated to the final
work, the more original the art because an artist would have a different
view of the world. It is when I am shown this different view of the world
that I am impressed, but I am only one viewer.

1. When the artist imagines something inspired by something else and
modifies it in their head for a while they involve their artist's mind into
the process. Their vision is unique to their interpretation of the inspiring
event and the process of forming an idea.
2. Then they translate the idea/vision to a medium via any tool and they
further involve themselves by infusing their personal and unique artistic
ability into the process.
3. Then they employ a process, any process, further involving their personal
artistic tools and their unique employment of those tools, to make the
idea/vision into a finished visual image that some people will call art.

1. Conversely, in my initial whiney comment, the modern artist seems to have
that vision inspired by other people's visions. Fine and dandy. Now that the
artist is working with someone else's vision, such as a photograph, an image
on the web or someone else's (gasp!) art, the artist is removing their own
original and unique vision a little from the creative process.
2. Then they avoid the step of translation into a medium by simply copying
or lifting or transferring, thus removing their own personal and unique
abilities and lending little to the translation. Copying and pasting is
simply not as unique as drawing because the translation process is not
unique to one individual, like a hand. Copying and pasting is reproducible
by a thousand individuals in exactly the same way. In my view this removes
even more originality and uniqueness from the process of image creation.
3. Finally they employ a process, any process, in order to achieve a final
visual image that some people will call art. Again, if the process directly
involves the artist's hand, mind, and unique abilities, the final image will
be unique. But the less of the artist the process involves, the less unique
and original the final image is bound to be and the more it is going to look
like the images of everyone else that utilizes the same approach to image
making.

Finally, I feel that starting out someone else's imagery and processes that
don't require much artistic ability, also known as craftsmanship, to be
restricting rather than liberating whether pencil or graphic tablet are
doing the creating. The (not literal) pencil, guided by the hand, guided by
the mind is simply a more artist-involving tool than copying and pasting a
photograph. While the pencil (not literally) is free to create anything, the
ready-made image is limited to what is...ready-made.

So take an artist's vision of an image and involve the artist in every step
= Maria's pleased.
So who cares, except Maria and her observations.
Don't take Maria's preferences personally, speaking to everyone, I just
happen to like to make my own stuff.

Maria

O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
       Maria Arango
  http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
 O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O

> It seems to me we're all missing the fact that drawing is one form
> of art by itself. What others create with whatever materials are
> available
> Is another form of art you may or may not like.To me drawing allows
> me to know what's going on in my mind. Sometimes I DRAW directly on
> The plate. For all of us who do old fashioned woodcuts,etchings or
> collographs there is drawing involved even if it's abstract. Ruth

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