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Message 1
From: tara wings
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:18:49 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37165] Thank you for the woodcut tool advice and all of your help!
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Thank you all so much for your help in selecting woodcut tools. For now, I will go with the Lee Valley tools,
and then once I have sold enough books to pay off my expenses so far, I will invest in some nice Japanesetools.

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Message 2
From: Rosposfe # aol.com
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:56:20 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37166] Moku Sticklers? Lets have fun.
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I vote that all participants do what they can. Print water based in
multiple colors with a baren. Enough. If a block registration fails and at the
last minute you need to color in the eyes blue with watercolor......I think
that's ok. Western paper makes MH harder so if you can pull it off.....and it
looks good.....let me know what paper you were using. Lets not have too many
rules. One of the neat things of an exchange is how solutions to artisitic
problems get solved by others.
Andrew Stone

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Message 3
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:13:15 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37167] moku hanga
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I agree but will try to do it all the old fashioned way..,.
I do know that Matt Brown, www.oolopress.com, uses rives heavyweight and his prints are beautiful...I have not had such good luck with it.
My best
Barbara



From: "Rosposfe@aol.com"

I vote that all participants do what they can.

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Message 4
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:18:13 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37168] Re: moku hanga
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sorry, I left out an o...
it is http://www.ooloopress.com

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Message 5
From: "Nancy Osadchuk"
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:24:28 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37169] Re: 'rules' for all-moku-hanga exchanges?
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I have no problem with trying to follow the 'rules" ..if you want to call
them that. It is a process and might as well try to have fun with it. If
you are just not pleased with the results, then you will likely decide to
stick to your preferred process.

Nancy O

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Message 6
From: PLAWING # smumn.edu
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:42:14 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37170] Re: 'rules' for all-moku-hanga exchanges?
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I agree with Mike's interpretation of the exchange.

All these things are what make a traditional Moku Hanga print, and what I expected when I signed up.

Preston

Preston B. Lawing
Chair, Department of Art and Design
Saint Mary's University of Minnesota
700 Terrace Heights
#1421
Winona, MN 55987
(507) 457-1701
plawing#smumn.edu

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Message 7
From: cucamongie # aol.com
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:56:23 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37171] hanga exchange
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I knew I was going to cause trouble with this, but since we seem to be voting on this, I vote for any paper you want and as few or many blocks as you want.


I particularly vote for being able to use just one block if that is what your image calls for.


I know that part of the point is to be keeping within this technique, but, as Graham said, some moku hanga prints have been done with a single block.


my two cents again :)

Sarah

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Message 8
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:58:12 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37172] Re: 'rules' for all-moku-hanga exchanges?
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Mike writes:
>The 'challenge' here is to print and exchange prints made using
>'Japanese' technique (moku-hanga) -- to me, that means the minimum
>'threshold' might be "washi printed with water-borne pigments applied by
>printing brush to multiple carved blocks registered using kento"

I agree with Mike here but I would add using a baren (or baren-like
substitute) to get the real feeling of hand-printing. While normally my
process is a bit hybrid from what Mike states( for example I sometimes use
a press instead of a baren to make the impression and I may substitute
light Rives paper for hosho) for this special exchange we should try to
use the technique and materials as true as possible. While Rives is an
okay substitute there is no comparison when printing moku-hanga and using
real japanese hand-made paper.

This could be some added expenses for the participants of exchange #39 but
I think you don't' have to spend lot of money and still get a good feel
for the technique. More on this later after I run an idea by our
mall-manager.

thanks...Julio

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Message 9
From: Tom Kristensen
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:18:46 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37173] Re: question re hanga exchange
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It seems that the artists of the Barenforum are more likely to be
individualists who are keen to bend some rules. Bending the rules is
good for the development of an artform, but it might also be good to
learn the rules before you break them. The sign-up page for Exchange
#39 is pretty clear, but I have an open mind if there are some
artists decide they are able to improve on Moku Hanga by ignoring
some of the defining clauses.

The Japanese have spent the last century re-inventing their
techniques in producing Sosaku Hanga - the so-called "creative"
prints, defined by the fact that one person has designed, carved and
printed the work. Moku Hanga was previously a team effort between a
publisher, an artist, the carvers and the printers. The new solo
artists were able to compete with the old teams of artisans in a
century where modernity was valued above tradition. Many of the
traditional techniques were too time-consuming or challenging for the
new breed. Working alone many new artists spent years re-inventing
the wheel. The old masters could have saved them years of toil by
sharing a few secrets. In one sense the internet has turned back time
and we are now able to share lost knowledge and explore ways of doing
things that might have become extinct. Only a few years ago it was
necessary to live in Japan to learn the techniques that are now
disseminated through the Barenforum.

After a century of experimentation the bulk of Japanese woodblock
artist still employ traditional tools, water-based inks and Japanese
paper. It does seem that there are real virtues in the traditional
tools and materials. Any Western woodblock printmaker would do well
to try these things out before rejecting them. So, I would say that
the "rules" for exchange 39 are there to be observed but they can
also be meaningfully broken.

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Message 10
From: "Amanda Miller"
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:49:40 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37174] Re: question re hanga exchange
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I thought someone mentioned that a shoe-brush could be used as an
inexpensive substitute for the maru bake, but now I can't find the email.
Is a shoe brush okay to use? And will it make the process more difficult?
Thanks!
Amanda

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Message 11
From: eli griggs
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 22:57:09 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37175] Re: question re hanga exchange
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Not being part of this exchange, I offer no opinion as
to its requirments, but these posts raise an
interesting point.

Other than David Bull, and only marginally by the
classic description, (as he both carves and prints the
blocks) practices Moku Hanga and that the correct art
form being practiced at Baren is, in fact, Sosaku
Hanga.

As only Sosaku Hanga is what is being made, should we
not stop describing the Japanese stye printmaking
being done here as Moku Hanga and own up to the modern
reality?

And if we embrace the truth of the art form, should
not artists working in the manor described, be granted
the latitude of materials that the modern world
provides rather than being held to the rigid illusion
and structure of an art form that is not in fact being
exercised here at all?

It seems to me that this pretense of Moku Hanga does a
disservice to all whom look here for instruction and
information on both art forms. If you can not
honestly describe what you are making, how can you
expect to be take serious by those whom know better?

Something to think about...

Cheers

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Message 12
From: Eileen Corder
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:11:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37176] Hanga rules
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I'm cool with all the basics put down by Mike. The reason I signed up for
this exchange is because I want to learn the hanga method.

-Eileen

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Message 13
From: Dave Bull
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:28:40 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37177] Re: question re hanga exchange
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Eli wrote:
> ... the correct art
> form being practiced at Baren is, in fact, Sosaku
> Hanga.
>
> As only Sosaku Hanga is what is being made, should we
> not stop describing the Japanese stye printmaking
> being done here as Moku Hanga and own up to the modern
> reality?

I too, have no dog in this fight, and will keep out of the discussion,
but I would like to (gently) make a correction here on the terminology.

'hanga' literally translates as 'plate picture'. In English : 'print'.
Could be from wood, steel, silkscreen, mezzo, etc. etc. you name it.

'moku hanga' literally translates as 'wood plate picture'. The term is
used here just as anywhere, and describes a physical technology, not a
stylistic choice. 'Moku hanga' in Japan can be done in the old methods,
or with oil and a press, could be made by one guy, by a team ...
whatever ... 'wood plate picture'. (It's what we do at [Baren])

What Eli wanted to explain (I believe), was the difference between the
two historical streams of printmaking in this country.

'Dento teki hanga' : 'traditional style printmaking'. This is how it
was all done in the old days, with the teams of craftsmen that we have
read about. Division of labour. Hiroshige, Hokusai, etc. etc.

'Sosaku hanga' : 'creative printmaking'. This is the term that was
developed in the early 20th century for the 'one artist' approach.
Munakata, Saito, etc. etc. Eli is dead on when he points out that this
is what 99.99% of [Baren] printmaking is about.

(I myself fall into both, of course, with my previous work making
reproductions in the spirit of the traditional work, and now with my
'start to finish' originals)

There is another term that should be mentioned:

'shin hanga' : 'new prints'. This term was developed in the early 20th
century for the genre of prints that - on the surface - fit the 'dento'
mold, as they were made by teams, but which shared none of the old
imagery. Think Hasui, Yoshida, etc. etc.

This describes what these terms mean here in _Japan_. But it seems that
in the west, the word 'hanga' has come to imply 'Japanese woodblock
techniques' (an understandable misinterpretation).

Just more confusion, I guess ...

Dave

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Message 14
From: "Terry Peart"
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:54:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37178] Re: 'rules' for all-moku-hanga exchanges?
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Mike and all,
I agree with Mike's outline.
The reason I signed up for the exchange was to make myself try something I don't normally do - to stretch my limits, to further explore the traditional techniques.
I've only tried it a few times, and this Exchange gives me a reason to revisit and re-learn Moku-hanga.
The exchanges themselves are great for me because they give me a project with a deadline - I tend to get distracted and procrastinate unless I have a deadline. I tend to fall back on the 'more familiar' methods unless I am pushed (or commit myself to something that pushes me).
Thank you!
Terry
West Seattle


OK, MY two cents (non-participants needn't reply) for moku-hanga exchange #39:



1. multiple blocks

2. kento registration - corner and side notches carved into each block to facilitate registration

3. water-borne pigments

4. pigments applied by printing brush (different tool than paint brush, brayer, or roller)

5. Washi -- Japanese paper optimized to hold up under numerous printing passes

6. hand printed using baren





Just my recommendation - final decision must be made by our generous Exchange Manager, Maria!



-- Mike

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Message 15
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2008 23:57:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37179] Re: moku hanga
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Barbara Mason wrote:

> I agree but will try to do it all the old fashioned way..,.
> I do know that Matt Brown, www.oolopress.com , uses rives
> heavyweight and his prints are beautiful...I have not had such good
> luck with it.

I would be interested to know how Matt avoids Goma-zuri using that
paper.

Graham

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Message 16
From: Graham Scholes
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:28:03 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37180] Re: question re hanga exchange
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If you can find a shoe brush that has as many hairs as the sosaku
brushes ... try it.
Some how I think your wasting precious daylite hours....
I have recommended the Sosaku brushes for many years... They are
excellent... well almost
excellent. The Professional brushes are the excellent ones. ( I thought someone mentioned that a shoe-brush could be used as an
> inexpensive substitute for the maru bake, but now I can't find the
> email. Is a shoe brush okay to use? And will it make the process
> more difficult?
> Thanks!
> Amanda

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