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Message 1
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:05:51 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30021] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
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Charles Morgan wrote (to Julio):
>Are you using very thin blankets to keep the paper out of the valleys?

Dumb idea: When using a press, I usually print the block 'upside
down' -- that is, I put the paper on the bed of the press, and place
the inked block ink-down on top of it, then blanket(s) and through
the press -- after embossing my umpteenth tympan sheet, I switched to
this method -- when registering with kento, I register the paper,
then flip paper + block paper side down onto the bed.

On my BIG press, I'm using neither blankets nor tympan -- just the
top roller against the paper... Seems to work OK, but I have begun
to wipe down the top roller after each press run, as it does tend to
accumulate both ink and bits of paper fiber...

-- Mike


Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com

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Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:47:09 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30022] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
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Charles Morgan wrote:
> was not meaning to suggest that you could use a standard
>etching press. And I fully agree that building it yourself was the
>only rational way to go.

Honestly, a most rational approach WOULD be to use a standard 'off
the shelf' etching press -- they'll all give decent results with
water-borne pigments and paste, but pressure must be VERY light and
not too much water, or the press will squeeze the block like a sponge
and the water+pigment will run everywhere...

>I was just thinking that all those who have a regular etching press
>could adapt much of your technique to their existing equipment to
>print Hanga-style much larger than we usually think of ... not as
>large as your stuff, but pretty well to the limits of the bed size.
>Also, for those with physical challenges (carpal tunnel, arthritis,
>etc.), using an etching press rather than a baren would allow them
>to do "traditional" wood block print, which they might not be able
>to do with the baren.

I dunno, Charles -- the carving takes much more of a toll on carpal
tunnel / arthritis / etc than the baren-printing (IMO)... But almost
any press can probably be made to work well, I think...

In order to work solo, I needed to deliver paper over the block as
that video illustrated (I did give serious thought to a 'web' paper
handling scheme -- a roll of watercolor paper at one end of the
press, a take-up roller at the other, then roll the paper to register
the first impression, then roll to register the next, etc, reversing
the roll/unroll direction for each subsequent block and cutting the
prints apart at the end -- I thought that was a kinda cool approach
but I just didn't have confidence that I could make it actually WORK
:)) -- I required a bed about 10 feet long in order to deliver paper
8 feet long with my relatively narrow roller assembly -- so a
moving-bed/stationary-roller press would sit in a 20 foot 'footprint'
-- pretty huge amount of half-empty floor -- and presses with beds
longer than 8 feet don't seem to be off-the-shelf items... I
corresponded with the Takatch folks, but they didn't seem to me to
take my inquiries very seriously and were not willing to modify their
design to allow greater movement of the top roller which I felt I
needed -- plus I'd have to use a crane and take a wall of my building
apart in order to get the huge frame parts of their 96" press
inside... I spoke with Barry Whelan of Whelan Press
http://www.whelanpress.com/home.aspx -- he makes relatively
inexpensive stationary-bed press in two sizes, neither of them large
enough for my purposes and he was emphatically NOT willing to scale
one up for me... So, although I didn't WANT to have to design and
build my own machine, I felt I really didn't have an alternative --
but FOR SURE -- if I could'a gotten an etching press (or ANY
affordable and simple to operate press) that's what I would'a done!

I think that the 'cool' thing about the press I designed (other than
the paper delivery which I believe is by far the 'coolest' part of
the setup) is that the rollers are guided (and supported by) a pair
of precision rails mounted to the sides of the press -- so the bed
(in this instance about 52 x 120 inches huge) can be very light
weight and flexible and needn't be rigid or stiff -- the two rails
and rollers hold the matrix flat and centered... My bed is 1/8"
aluminum, for example.

-- Mike

(completed printing block 5 of 8 this morning -- prints still look
'decent' to me and nothing totally ruined yet :-D)


Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com

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Message 3
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:59:26 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30020] Re: Not everything in life is beautiful
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Rob Viana wrote:
>nels, I know what you need. I have made mistakes like this and I
>used J.B. weld to fix it. It is an appoxy that will be so hard you
>can machine it. a little shaping and care applying it and it works great.

Only one caution here about materials -- doesn't matter much if
you're an oily (or water-cleanup oily substitute) printer, but for
water-borne pigment (moku-hanga) a surprising amount of water and
color are absorbed by the block and released during printing (like
squeezing a sponge), so material which is more or less absorbent than
the block will print darker or lighter as the case may be... This
characteristic of wood may be used to good effect by intentionally
applying materials with different absorbency to the block (instead of
or in addition to carving) -- epoxy, concrete, varnish, cardboard,
etc can produce some interesting effects!

-- Mike


Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com

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Message 4
From: deborah harris
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:19:43 -0800
Subject: [Baren 30023] printing problem
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I print linoleum blocks in oil on a press. I use Daniel Smith ink with no
medium. I use Lenox 100 or Rives paper which I spray with water and stack
in a plastic bag weighted with a heavy book for 2 hours minimum. I don't
use blankets, but sandwich the block and paper between book-binder's
board. Often I get great, crisp prints. Often I get prints that are
either too light, or opaque but smudgy. Sometimes they are both light and
smudgy! By smudgy I mean that ink has gotten into the interstices. I
adjust the pressure to no good effect, warm the ink, blot the paper - all
fruitless! What am I doing wrong?

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Message 5
From: Dan Dew
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:45:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 30024] Re: printing problem
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Try a print or two on dry paper, see what happens.

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Message 6
From: Myron Turner
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:02:00 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30025] Re: printing problem
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1. you don't say what kind of press you are using. But in any case, you
have to make sure that the paper does not accidentally move on the block
as the print is being "pressed". So, for starters, I might eliminate
the "sandwich", i.e. the bottom piece of board. Instead of bookbinders
board, I'd suggest using Masonite in place of the top piece of
bookbinders board, and of a dimension which has some weight--it doesn't
matter if it's a lot bigger than the print size. The weight of the
Masonite will help keep the paper from moving on the block. Between the
Masonite and the the paper on which you are printing, use a second sheet
of paper--the Lennox is good for this.

2. If the ink is coming up from the recessed areas, then of course the
ink is getting into the recessed areas, and that may mean you are not
clearing out deeply enough. Think of your bock as a topographical map,
in which you are mapping out a valley. The recesses should be carved
deeper as you get deeper into the valley. The closer you are to the
line you are printing, the shallower your recess has to be.

3. There's also the question of the inking roller. The ideal roller
for relief is 30 durometer. If it's much too soft, the ink may get into
the the recesses. If it's too hard, it can ink unevenly.

Myron

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Message 7
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:21:46 -0800
Subject: [Baren 30026] RE: printing problem
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You never need blankets to print _relief_ blocks with an etching press. The
blankets are to push the damp paper into the lines of an etched plate. When
printing relief blocks, this is exactly what we don't want to happen.

When you begin printing a relief block, it is a good practice that you get
the correct pressure/ink/darkness/etc. all worked out in the first few
prints. After you get that first "acceptable" print, doing the same thing
should (should!) result in a consistent run.

Here are the variables, I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong. Simply,
when getting smudgy or inconsistent prints, these are the things what to
watch out for and "tweak" until everything is just right:

-Block cuts should be deep and clean enough to avoid smudging the background
or around the edges of a line/area. If a cut or line or area is picking up
unwanted ink, grab a knife and recut until a clean print is produced. Large
background areas are particularly pesky when printing with a press because
the paper will find its way into sloppyly cleared areas. If you constantly
get build up of ink around line edges, perhaps it is time to sharpen the
tools and cut cleaner, deeper lines. Since I hardly ever use a toh for my
cuts, I have this problem ocassionally.

-Paper dampness is sometimes the culprit in creating smudges; too much water
or not waiting enough for the dampness to crawl throughout the paper evenly
may make the paper too wet/soggy = soft and produce smudgy print. Paper
should be cool to the touch and hardly "feel" damp, just limber enough to
adapt itself to the block and absorb the ink. Dan is right, if the paper is
smooth enough, there is no need to dampen at all (sometimes).

-Ink layer should be even and the roller about a medium softness. Take time
to spread the THIN layer of ink very evenly over the inking slab, then build
up the block slowly. That is, you must get a few light prints on waste
paper, re-ink, print again. Each print should be darker than the last until
an even dark print is obtained. Skipping this important step most times
results in problems later on. Seems to me that warming the ink might make it
way too soft and cause smudging. Use additives like plate oil instead if the
ink is too stiff. Look at the block at a sharp angle to make sure a thin
layer of ink is everywhere you want it to be and nowhere you don't.

-Finally, as I started, no blankets! Blankets will push the paper into the
non-relief areas. Use a hard tympan, either plexiglass or masonite. Then
build/adjust your tympan with blotters (no more than two) as you would in
lithography when a darker print is desired and the press has already been
adjusted. Cardboard works well too, but anything softer than that will
create smudging problems. Once you have built up your tympan (often a sheet
of cardboard or one blotter is all that is required if you have your press
pressure adjusted correctly) Barbara Mason taught me to tape the
blotter/cardboard to the tympan with masking tape along one edge.

-Press pressure should not make the roller "bounce" off the edges of the
block, as this can cause the paper to shift on the block and smudge,
especially the edges. I happen to be an edge smudger because I work with
hand-made paper which tends to require more pressure.

Good luck, I hope this helps.
Maria


Maria Arango
www.1000woodcuts.com

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Message 8
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:40:09 -0800
Subject: [Baren 30027] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
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I wrote:
>Also, for those with physical challenges (carpal tunnel, arthritis,
>etc.), using an etching press rather than a baren would allow them to do
>"traditional" wood block print, which they might not be able to do with
>the baren.

Mike answersed:
>I dunno, Charles -- the carving takes much more of a toll on carpal tunnel /
> arthritis / etc than the baren-printing (IMO)... But almost any press
>can probably be made to work well, I think...

Of course you are certainly right that the carving with hand tools takes
more arm/wrist/hand strength than the printing by hand, but I was thinking
one could use power carving tools. Need not be as elaborate as your
automated router set-up ... Dremmel tools or the higher end flex shaft
tools would be reasonable alternatives. And someone used to market a power
"chisel", though I have never seen one of the gizmos ... as I recall,
someone on list had one or was about to purchase one some time back.

Anyway ... just thinking about less muscle intensive ways to do it, without
having to build a special press.

Cheers ...... Charles

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Message 9
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 13:44:09 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30028] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
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Charles writes:
"And are you mixing the pigment directly into the paste before applying it
to the block, as Mike was doing in the video? And how are you spreading
the pigment+paste on the block ... still using the brush technique that
Mike was using in the video or something else? Are you using very thin
blankets to keep the paper out of the valleys? What registration system
are you using?"

No, I don't mix the paste and pigment outside the block, almost never. I
apply a few dabs here and there of each to the block and mix together on
the block with the horsehair brush. You get better control that way. If
the brush becomes too saturated (and it will !) you can skip applying
paste (or pigment) for any one particular sheet...then when things are
under control again (usually a sheet or two ) you can go back to applying
your dabs of paste or pigment. How much to apply depends on area size,
wood use and effect desired. Also I use rice flour as the source for my
paste so once you mix them together you pretty much have set the life for
that batch....we can ask Mike, but I suspect that he was mixing them
together first cause he had such a big area to cover and/or because this
was the first pass of a reduction print which is of course a
very-very-very light tint...very hard to get good coverage of light tints
w/o mixing the pigment and paste first...there is not enough color in
there to do much with so you mix it with the paste...I seen David do this
pre-mixing on a little square ceramic tile he keeps next to him for
special ocassions...the mix is mostly paste with a touch of color...

I am using the traditional kento registration for my blocks, works very
well. Because this is an old proofing press, it does not have the nice
adjustment controls that fancy presses have...so all the adjustments to
pressure have to be done on the bed itself. I normally have some cardboard
or newspapers underneath the block..then the block..then the sheet of
paper (Rives or Hosho)...then depending on block height and pressure
needed I use a mix of newspapers, plywood, plexi, blankets or any of the
above...I find that newspapers give me very fine adjustments because I can
remove a single sheet of newspaper at a time to achieve the desired change
in pressure...

As Maria mentioned, you don't want to use straight blankets for
relief....but when I use them they are on the very top of the stack and
below them is a hard surface like plexi or plywood....

thanks....Julio Rodriguez

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Message 10
From: Dan Dew
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:04:54 -0500
Subject: [Baren 30029] Exchange #26
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WOW!

Received my prints today, what an amazing cross section of
techniques, styles, images, techniques.
Did I say WOW yet?

Daniel L. Dew
Tampa, FL

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Message 11
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 14:37:47 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30030] Fwd: Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
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Julio wrote:
>...we can ask Mike, but I suspect that he was mixing them together
>first cause he had such a big area to cover and/or because this was
>the first pass of a reduction print which is of course a
>very-very-very light tint...very hard to get good coverage of light
>tints w/o mixing the pigment and paste first...there is not enough
>color in there to do much with so you mix it with the paste...

Exactly right! :) With very light tints, if you put a drop of
saturated pigment onto the block, you run the risk of printing the
area of the drop noticeably darker on the next several sheets --
safer to add dilute pigment to the block than the straight stuff,
plus on my huge blocks, it's kinda hard to get one dab of pigment
brushed evenly out all over the huge block -- really makes you sweat
hard just trying, so it's an effective labor savings, too!

-- Mike

Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com

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Message 12
From: Blog Manager
Date: 31 Jan 2006 04:55:08 -0000
Subject: [Baren 30031] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
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This is an automatic update message being sent to [Baren] by the forum blog software.

The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (13 sites checked, just before midnight Eastern time)

*****************

Site Name: David Bull, Woodblock Printmaker

Item: 2006 Exhibition Photo Tour now on-line ...
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/exhibitions_events/finished_events.html

*****************

Site Name: Printmakingblog

Author: Printblog
Item: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?
http://printmakersmaterials.blogspot.com/2006/01/where-have-you-been.html

*****************

[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:
http://barenforum.org/contact_baren.php

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