Today's postings
- [Baren 30013] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 30012] Re: Not everything in life is beautiful (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 30014] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press (Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com)
- [Baren 30016] RE: New Baren Digest (HTML) V34 #3352 (Jan 29, 2006) ("gillying # maineline.net")
- [Baren 30015] Power of Positive thinking ("April Vollmer")
- [Baren 30018] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press (Charles Morgan)
- [Baren 30017] Re: Not everything in life is beautiful ("Robert Viana")
- [Baren 30019] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press (Charles Morgan)
Message 1
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 07:28:29 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30013] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
Send Message: To this poster
Charles Morgan wrote:
>I finally got the thing to download over my snail pace phone line.
>WHAT A HOOT!!! I am very interested to hear how you handle
>registration. I suppose one could use pins (e.g., lithographer's
>pins) on the side of the paper, but I did not see evidence of that
>in the video. I see no reason why one could not use the same
>approach on a smaller scale, using a standard etching press. Just a thought.
Printing blocks on an etching press -- my first tests were run on my
smallish etching press and I did NOT want to build my own press at
all! But I couldn't find an 'off the shelf' press with a large
enough opening and a large enough bed -- I need quite an unusual
amount of space over the bed to deliver paper, and I don't have
unlimited floor space for a moving bed etching press -- plus they're
very expensive and have a stiffness I really don't require for relief
printing... So I couldn't find anything large enough and those I
contacted seemed disinterested in building me a custom press... Do
it yourself is about a third or less the cost of buying a ready-made
if you don't pay yourself a wage...
Paper delivery -- Yes, my sliding shelf paper support/delivery scheme
would work with any printing method I believe... Easy to imagine
registering sheets over intaglio plates as well (or litho stones /
plates) as the paper can be easily adjusted with NO fear of touching
the inky matrix until everything is 'just right'... But it's a bit
of a space hog, and overkill for most applications -- I think most
people would rather just use an assistant or three to handle larger sheets...
REGISTRATION: I considered pins and a lot of other methods before
settling on a modification of standard kento registration... The
'mod' was my original invention -- I ran the idea by David Bull and
turns out he'd heard of others using a similar method, so actually
I've re-invented the wheel (again and again) -- here's how I'm doing
it and it seems to work VERY well -- almost as easy and just as
positive as corner and side:
I can comfortably hold the paper in place with my hands about four
feet apart (six feet is about the limit of my 'reach', and at that
maximum spread, my chest hits the block, so for me, about four feet
seemed 'right' for this 6 1/2 foot long paper... This paper has a
3/4" wide (gorgeous and almost transparent) deckle which would be
impossible to register as each sheet is different, so I cut a
triangular notch into the long edge of the paper about 16" from the
right side of the face down sheet with the right-angle point of the
notch about an inch from the edge of the deckle (just into the body
of the paper) -- then I cut a second notch -- this one a rectangle --
the same depth into the same edge but about 60 inches from the right
side. Then I carve a pair of kento into the block, a triangle and a
side and register the triangle points first, then the side and it's
very accurate, but not quite as automatic as bumping the paper into a
corner (this paper is really too big to bump anyway, though)...
Maybe a text-drawing can show it?...
______________________________
_| |_
| | | |\
| | paper | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | ________ | ||
| | / \ /\ | ||
| |__/ ______ \________/ \____| ||
| / \\ /\\ ||
| / \\ block / \\ ||
| / \\ / \\ ||
|___/-----------\\_____/------\\___||
\___________________________________|
What a slow way to draw! I feel I'm back in the 1960's :-)!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>I finally got the thing to download over my snail pace phone line.
>WHAT A HOOT!!! I am very interested to hear how you handle
>registration. I suppose one could use pins (e.g., lithographer's
>pins) on the side of the paper, but I did not see evidence of that
>in the video. I see no reason why one could not use the same
>approach on a smaller scale, using a standard etching press. Just a thought.
Printing blocks on an etching press -- my first tests were run on my
smallish etching press and I did NOT want to build my own press at
all! But I couldn't find an 'off the shelf' press with a large
enough opening and a large enough bed -- I need quite an unusual
amount of space over the bed to deliver paper, and I don't have
unlimited floor space for a moving bed etching press -- plus they're
very expensive and have a stiffness I really don't require for relief
printing... So I couldn't find anything large enough and those I
contacted seemed disinterested in building me a custom press... Do
it yourself is about a third or less the cost of buying a ready-made
if you don't pay yourself a wage...
Paper delivery -- Yes, my sliding shelf paper support/delivery scheme
would work with any printing method I believe... Easy to imagine
registering sheets over intaglio plates as well (or litho stones /
plates) as the paper can be easily adjusted with NO fear of touching
the inky matrix until everything is 'just right'... But it's a bit
of a space hog, and overkill for most applications -- I think most
people would rather just use an assistant or three to handle larger sheets...
REGISTRATION: I considered pins and a lot of other methods before
settling on a modification of standard kento registration... The
'mod' was my original invention -- I ran the idea by David Bull and
turns out he'd heard of others using a similar method, so actually
I've re-invented the wheel (again and again) -- here's how I'm doing
it and it seems to work VERY well -- almost as easy and just as
positive as corner and side:
I can comfortably hold the paper in place with my hands about four
feet apart (six feet is about the limit of my 'reach', and at that
maximum spread, my chest hits the block, so for me, about four feet
seemed 'right' for this 6 1/2 foot long paper... This paper has a
3/4" wide (gorgeous and almost transparent) deckle which would be
impossible to register as each sheet is different, so I cut a
triangular notch into the long edge of the paper about 16" from the
right side of the face down sheet with the right-angle point of the
notch about an inch from the edge of the deckle (just into the body
of the paper) -- then I cut a second notch -- this one a rectangle --
the same depth into the same edge but about 60 inches from the right
side. Then I carve a pair of kento into the block, a triangle and a
side and register the triangle points first, then the side and it's
very accurate, but not quite as automatic as bumping the paper into a
corner (this paper is really too big to bump anyway, though)...
Maybe a text-drawing can show it?...
______________________________
_| |_
| | | |\
| | paper | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | | ||
| | ________ | ||
| | / \ /\ | ||
| |__/ ______ \________/ \____| ||
| / \\ /\\ ||
| / \\ block / \\ ||
| / \\ / \\ ||
|___/-----------\\_____/------\\___||
\___________________________________|
What a slow way to draw! I feel I'm back in the 1960's :-)!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 06:42:45 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30012] Re: Not everything in life is beautiful
Send Message: To this poster
Nels wrote:
>Any other suggestions on fixing those dreaded "oops?"
Dear Nels,
Large oops can most easily (not that it's very
easy to do this!) be repaired by first finding a
similar-grained piece of the same wood, then
cutting it to an 'easy' shape the right size to
cover the oops, then clearing the oops area to
the same shape and glueing in the similar-grained
inlay you cut previously... A quick and very
easy fix for SMALL oops's is to use a (sharp!)
gouge which is wider than the oops to carve a
chip from a similar-grained piece of the same
wood (maybe from the edge of the block with the
oops), then repeat a similar but slightly
shallower gouge to remove the oops
itself... Because the oops and chip were cut
with the same tool, the chip will exactly fit and
may be glued with a cyanoacrylate glue formulated
for wood (porous material) -- be careful not to
let the glue squeeze out onto the surface of the
block, as it will seal the block and that area
will print very light compared to unsealed
adjacent areas... Hold it in firmly in place
while the glue sets (about a minute or so and
don't get any on your finger! A little paper or
plastic wrap will save you)... When the glue has
set, use a (sharp!) flat chisel to plane the
repair flush with the surface of the rest of the block...
Maybe this sounds too complicated, but honestly,
if the glue and my tools are handy, I can
complete a gouge and chip repair like this in
about 2 or 3 minutes depending on how fast the
glue (try Instant Krazy Glueİ Original Formula For Wood & Leather) sets up...
Good luck!
Mike
PS -- I don't think your 'disaster print' looks
like a disaster at all -- sometimes when a print
doesn't turn out the way we expected we feel
we've failed, but put it away for a while and
then look with fresh eyes and maybe it will
surprise you -- then don't be afraid to print and
print and print some more (until you completely
KILL it) in an effort to improve the image -- let
the print tell you where it needs to go and don't
let your mind interfere too much ("use the force,
Luke")... Eventually, maybe you'll get a sense
of when to stop, but you have to go WAY TOO FAR
many times in order to develop that sort of 'feel', I believe...
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>Any other suggestions on fixing those dreaded "oops?"
Dear Nels,
Large oops can most easily (not that it's very
easy to do this!) be repaired by first finding a
similar-grained piece of the same wood, then
cutting it to an 'easy' shape the right size to
cover the oops, then clearing the oops area to
the same shape and glueing in the similar-grained
inlay you cut previously... A quick and very
easy fix for SMALL oops's is to use a (sharp!)
gouge which is wider than the oops to carve a
chip from a similar-grained piece of the same
wood (maybe from the edge of the block with the
oops), then repeat a similar but slightly
shallower gouge to remove the oops
itself... Because the oops and chip were cut
with the same tool, the chip will exactly fit and
may be glued with a cyanoacrylate glue formulated
for wood (porous material) -- be careful not to
let the glue squeeze out onto the surface of the
block, as it will seal the block and that area
will print very light compared to unsealed
adjacent areas... Hold it in firmly in place
while the glue sets (about a minute or so and
don't get any on your finger! A little paper or
plastic wrap will save you)... When the glue has
set, use a (sharp!) flat chisel to plane the
repair flush with the surface of the rest of the block...
Maybe this sounds too complicated, but honestly,
if the glue and my tools are handy, I can
complete a gouge and chip repair like this in
about 2 or 3 minutes depending on how fast the
glue (try Instant Krazy Glueİ Original Formula For Wood & Leather) sets up...
Good luck!
Mike
PS -- I don't think your 'disaster print' looks
like a disaster at all -- sometimes when a print
doesn't turn out the way we expected we feel
we've failed, but put it away for a while and
then look with fresh eyes and maybe it will
surprise you -- then don't be afraid to print and
print and print some more (until you completely
KILL it) in an effort to improve the image -- let
the print tell you where it needs to go and don't
let your mind interfere too much ("use the force,
Luke")... Eventually, maybe you'll get a sense
of when to stop, but you have to go WAY TOO FAR
many times in order to develop that sort of 'feel', I believe...
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 3
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:43:08 -0600
Subject: [Baren 30014] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
Send Message: To this poster
" I see no reason why one could not use the same approach on a smaller
scale, using a standard etching press. Just a thought."
If what you mean is using a press to print water moku-hanga, I think a few
of us use the technique. When I first started with relief printing I got
scared by the cleanup and chemicals needed to do oil based printing (plus
the fact I sucked at rolling ink and using a brayer !) . After finding
Baren and learning about water based Japanese printing from David Bull, I
started to learn and use that technique but found myself not getting good
impressions on the paper (at first was wrong materials and a poor quality
baren tool) so I started using my Model 2 Vandercook (20X24" bed) proofing
press to get nice deep flat color impressions on large areas....the press
is circa 1930s-40s from the glorious days of letter type pritning in
Chicago...
http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/photojr/van0201s.jpg
Since then I been using a combination of press and baren to get my prints
done....now I find myself after printing with the press and lifting the
blankets that if I go over the paper with the baren (strong pressure) I
get that nice bleed to the verso of the paper...something I can't achieve
with the press alone w/o getting spots on the paper or doing extra carving
on the valleys......
I seen many photos of Ken Tyler and his artists collaborating on large
prints with fancy setups but nothing like what Mike's put together. Mike's
approach to making large images is impressive and creative....but if you
know about Mike's background and the fun he has developing these tools you
can be certain that if there is a way to make something happen...Mike will
find it and get it done !!!
http://barenforum.org/newsletter/issue08/issue08.html#feature4
thanks.....Julio Rodriguez.
scale, using a standard etching press. Just a thought."
If what you mean is using a press to print water moku-hanga, I think a few
of us use the technique. When I first started with relief printing I got
scared by the cleanup and chemicals needed to do oil based printing (plus
the fact I sucked at rolling ink and using a brayer !) . After finding
Baren and learning about water based Japanese printing from David Bull, I
started to learn and use that technique but found myself not getting good
impressions on the paper (at first was wrong materials and a poor quality
baren tool) so I started using my Model 2 Vandercook (20X24" bed) proofing
press to get nice deep flat color impressions on large areas....the press
is circa 1930s-40s from the glorious days of letter type pritning in
Chicago...
http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/photojr/van0201s.jpg
Since then I been using a combination of press and baren to get my prints
done....now I find myself after printing with the press and lifting the
blankets that if I go over the paper with the baren (strong pressure) I
get that nice bleed to the verso of the paper...something I can't achieve
with the press alone w/o getting spots on the paper or doing extra carving
on the valleys......
I seen many photos of Ken Tyler and his artists collaborating on large
prints with fancy setups but nothing like what Mike's put together. Mike's
approach to making large images is impressive and creative....but if you
know about Mike's background and the fun he has developing these tools you
can be certain that if there is a way to make something happen...Mike will
find it and get it done !!!
http://barenforum.org/newsletter/issue08/issue08.html#feature4
thanks.....Julio Rodriguez.
Message 4
From: "gillying # maineline.net"
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 18:13:50 -0500
Subject: [Baren 30016] RE: New Baren Digest (HTML) V34 #3352 (Jan 29, 2006)
Send Message: To this poster
for Nels re: filling in wood- i have used 'spackling compound' with
success-and it's easy to find . it is still holding fine on blocks carved
twenty years ago...
a paper question for any one ,and /or- Dean Clark:
- can we still get a Tableau Roll or are they all gone?
Is anyone still making/selling it ?
my favorite paper -strong -verstaile- economical- but presently
-unavailable !! ??
gillyin in Maine
success-and it's easy to find . it is still holding fine on blocks carved
twenty years ago...
a paper question for any one ,and /or- Dean Clark:
- can we still get a Tableau Roll or are they all gone?
Is anyone still making/selling it ?
my favorite paper -strong -verstaile- economical- but presently
-unavailable !! ??
gillyin in Maine
Message 5
From: "April Vollmer"
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:15:13 -0500
Subject: [Baren 30015] Power of Positive thinking
Send Message: To this poster
Right, just like a rubber stamp!
And do you cut them yourself, too?
And do you cut them yourself, too?
Message 6
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 17:50:47 -0800
Subject: [Baren 30018] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
Send Message: To this poster
Hello Mike,
Thanks for the details on your registration technique. Looks like it ought
to work just fine. And thanks for the "digital art" ... that really helped
clarify things.
I do understand the various reasons why you built the press, and certainly
was not meaning to suggest that you could use a standard etching press. And
I fully agree that building it yourself was the only rational way to go.
I was just thinking that all those who have a regular etching press could
adapt much of your technique to their existing equipment to print
Hanga-style much larger than we usually think of ... not as large as your
stuff, but pretty well to the limits of the bed size. Also, for those with
physical challenges (carpal tunnel, arthritis, etc.), using an etching
press rather than a baren would allow them to do "traditional" wood block
print, which they might not be able to do with the baren.
Cheers ..... Charles
Thanks for the details on your registration technique. Looks like it ought
to work just fine. And thanks for the "digital art" ... that really helped
clarify things.
I do understand the various reasons why you built the press, and certainly
was not meaning to suggest that you could use a standard etching press. And
I fully agree that building it yourself was the only rational way to go.
I was just thinking that all those who have a regular etching press could
adapt much of your technique to their existing equipment to print
Hanga-style much larger than we usually think of ... not as large as your
stuff, but pretty well to the limits of the bed size. Also, for those with
physical challenges (carpal tunnel, arthritis, etc.), using an etching
press rather than a baren would allow them to do "traditional" wood block
print, which they might not be able to do with the baren.
Cheers ..... Charles
Message 7
From: "Robert Viana"
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 21:07:56 -0200
Subject: [Baren 30017] Re: Not everything in life is beautiful
Send Message: To this poster
nels,
I know what you need. I have made mistakes like this and I used J.B. weld to fix it. It is an appoxy that will be so hard you can machine it. a little shaping and care applying it and it works great.
I know what you need. I have made mistakes like this and I used J.B. weld to fix it. It is an appoxy that will be so hard you can machine it. a little shaping and care applying it and it works great.
Message 8
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:45:04 -0800
Subject: [Baren 30019] Re: VIDEO -- pulling first prints on BIG press
Send Message: To this poster
Julio wrote:
>If what you mean is using a press to print water moku-hanga, I think a few
>of us use the technique. When I first started with relief printing I got
>scared by the cleanup and chemicals needed to do oil based printing (plus
>the fact I sucked at rolling ink and using a brayer !) . After finding
>Baren and learning about water based Japanese printing from David Bull, I
>started to learn and use that technique but found myself not getting good
>impressions on the paper (at first was wrong materials and a poor quality
>baren tool) so I started using my Model 2 Vandercook (20X24" bed) proofing
>press to get nice deep flat color impressions on large areas....the press
>is circa 1930s-40s from the glorious days of letter type pritning in
>Chicago...
>Since then I been using a combination of press and baren to get my prints
>done....now I find myself after printing with the press and lifting the
>blankets that if I go over the paper with the baren (strong pressure) I
>get that nice bleed to the verso of the paper...something I can't achieve
>with the press alone w/o getting spots on the paper or doing extra carving
>on the valleys......
And are you mixing the pigment directly into the paste before applying it
to the block, as Mike was doing in the video?
And how are you spreading the pigment+paste on the block ... still using
the brush technique that Mike was using in the video or something else?
Are you using very thin blankets to keep the paper out of the valleys?
What registration system are you using?
Cheers ..... Charles
>If what you mean is using a press to print water moku-hanga, I think a few
>of us use the technique. When I first started with relief printing I got
>scared by the cleanup and chemicals needed to do oil based printing (plus
>the fact I sucked at rolling ink and using a brayer !) . After finding
>Baren and learning about water based Japanese printing from David Bull, I
>started to learn and use that technique but found myself not getting good
>impressions on the paper (at first was wrong materials and a poor quality
>baren tool) so I started using my Model 2 Vandercook (20X24" bed) proofing
>press to get nice deep flat color impressions on large areas....the press
>is circa 1930s-40s from the glorious days of letter type pritning in
>Chicago...
>Since then I been using a combination of press and baren to get my prints
>done....now I find myself after printing with the press and lifting the
>blankets that if I go over the paper with the baren (strong pressure) I
>get that nice bleed to the verso of the paper...something I can't achieve
>with the press alone w/o getting spots on the paper or doing extra carving
>on the valleys......
And are you mixing the pigment directly into the paste before applying it
to the block, as Mike was doing in the video?
And how are you spreading the pigment+paste on the block ... still using
the brush technique that Mike was using in the video or something else?
Are you using very thin blankets to keep the paper out of the valleys?
What registration system are you using?
Cheers ..... Charles