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Message 1
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:00:20 +0800
Subject: [Baren 27906] Re:Rooster blocks
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Dear Dave,

Here is my little observation about the Rooster blocks and print:

These are two separate combinations...... there is the print and there
is the one block (carved front and back) .... which came first? "The
chicken or the egg?"

Take a look at the black detail of the block and the print.

> http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/shizai2.jpg
> http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/shizai.kabushiki.gaisha-kobe.jpg

The block has more detail and is more professionally carved.

I would say that one or the other was copied from the other and if they
are different sizes as Dave said...... then the blocks came second
..... the rooster drawing was copied from the print and the drawing
transferred to the blocks with carbon paper before being carved.

My 2 cents worth from Down Under.

I love detective work!!!

Cheers,
Jan

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Message 2
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 10:01:26 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27907] Re: Woodblock puzzle ...
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In general commercial wood engraved blocks were not printed off the wood
block but were used to make proofs that were then used to make photo etched
plates. If you notice on the wood engraved blocks there is a rough border that
is left on the block. this was left on so that the fine lined out line
would not get damaged or nicked and would be trimmed off of the proof before the
negative was made.

john c.

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Message 3
From: Tyrus Clutter
Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 11:12:14 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27908] Blind Stamping
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The non-profit I direct has recently finished off a suite of 25 prints for
our 25th anniversary you can view them at our website:
http://www.civa.org/exhibitions.php?subID=78

We had a blind stamp made to go along with this and will use it on future
editions that we produce as a fundraiser. I rather like the little blind
stamp and think I'll probably get my own sometime this year. It was only $90, I
believe. Anyway, my question is this (and I think I know how folks will
answer but I wanted to start a little discussion): is appropriate to place
the blind stamp on the unsold impressions from an addition (and I do print
mine all at the same time) even though there are some already in circulation
which would not have it?

Also, I was recently at the National Gallery in D.C. This was kind of fun as
a few of the artists who have prints in this same portfolio of responses to
work in the museum were with me. We were able to look at the originals and
see how people had made them their own. I have to admit that I have seen
very few collections with such rich impressions of Durer woodcuts and
Rembrandt etchings as the Nat'l Gallery.
Tyrus

Tyrus Clutter
Director, Christians in the Visual Arts
255 Grapevine Road
Wenham, MA 01984

978-867-4128: Office
978-867-4125: Fax
www.civa.org

Christians in the Visual Arts is the premier visual arts organization
connecting the artist, the Church, and the culture.

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Message 4
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 27909] Re: Blind Stamping
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Tyrus,
Some of these prints were pretty impressive....hope you are able to sell them all. It is a great idea for a fundraiser, 25 prints for $100 each...a good price for sure.

As far as the blind stamp, I assume this is a chop or shop signature. I think you can put it on half an edition...I don't know why it would matter. Some museum curator will go nuts 100 years from now trying to figure it out..heh heh...It would sort of be like signing it twice.
Best to you,
Barbara

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Message 5
From: eli griggs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 08:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 27910] Be famous...make your own postage stamps at the USPS!!!!!!!
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Hi there:

This link showed up on another forum
(sliderule@yahoogroups) and I want to pass it own.

Perhaps this is a way for some of our
printmaker/artist to promote their work.

Maybe Baren and Print Australia might want to
come up with an 'Official" design that members could
down load and order-up their own stamps.

Cheers,
Eli

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Message 6
From: L Cass
Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 12:02:15 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27911] Re: Woodblock puzzle ...
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I can't resist mentioning the really simple explanation which occurred to
me - since the size differs ,carving is better and small details appear to
be different such as the beak and eye as far as I can see on the screen
image, surely whoever carved it (for whatever reason) had the print on
hand, copied the image and cut directly onto his block resulting it the
same orientation of the rooster. What's missing is a print from this
block!!?? It looks as if it could originally have been a design for the
old-fashioned cardboard or wooden matchboxes of that era -espec since you
say it was a company that made matches. Could the size of print and/or
block correspond to this theory? perhaps the original print served as an
idea for whoever (a better artist?) was commissioned to execute the final
design. Since there isn't a print from this block a search for matchboxes
would have to ensue.
Farfetched isn't it??!!
L.C.

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Message 7
From: eli griggs
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 09:00:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 27912] Be famous...make your own postage stamps at the USPS..with link this time!!!!
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Repeat of Message 5

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Message 8
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 02 May 2005 14:30:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 27913] Re: Woodblock puzzle ...
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John C. wrote:
>In general commercial wood engraved blocks were not printed off the wood
>block but were used to make proofs that were then used to make photo
>etched plates. If you notice on the wood engraved blocks there is a
>rough border that is left on the block. this was left on so that the fine
>lined out line would not get damaged or nicked and would be trimmed off
>of the proof before the negative was made.

I think that rough border is just paper support, John...

Mike Lyon

Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com

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Message 9
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 18:45:52 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27914] Re: Woodblock puzzle ...
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On the matrix that would be used for printing not the wood engraved block
that would be routed off. No need for paper support on press printed blocks.

In the 1860's they used to make wax molds and then electro plate them With
that method they left the border on to support the wax and later cut it off.
On photo etched plates it would be trimmed off the proof before the negative
was made.

john c.

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Message 10
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 20:18:58 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27915] Muakata on Antiques Roadshow
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Hi
Did you see the Munakata woodblock print, 1959,about 14"x14", on Antiques
Roadshow? It was carved and printed as a demonstration and had no
edition markings. It was thought that it may be the only one.--1/1.
Appraised at $3000-$5000.
Interesting.
They often have woodblock prints brought into the show.

Carol L
Irvington, NY

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Message 11
From: "cjpiers"
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 21:09:24 -0700
Subject: [Baren 27916] Re: Muakata on Antiques Roadshow
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Hi,
I saw that. I thought it was fabulous!
I love it when they have prints on for evaluation. For me it makes the whole hour when they have fine art stuff on.
Connie
in Spokane

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Message 12
From: "Yecheal-[HILIK]"
Date: Mon, 2 May 2005 22:13:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 27917] Puzzle Woodblock Cut
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I wish to thank you all for trying to solve the enigma of the rooster woodblock cut.



It is indeed made for printing match box labels.



Usually, one was made to print the box size labels, and another, identical in design but bigger in size, was for printing a larger label which was stuck onto a pack of 6 or 12 match boxes wrapped in paper.



As you may understand by now, early Japanese match box labels were printed using the woodblock printing process. Woodblock cuts of such are seldom found.



You may see below other examples of woodblock printed match labels (box size and packet size):



Sample 1

Box size: http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/000314.jpg

Packet size: http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/000318.jpg



Sample 2

Box size: http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/hakke.kagaku.kogyo.kabushiki.gaisha.2.jpg

Packet size: http://www.geocities.com/yecheal/wb/hakke.kagaku.kogyo.kabushiki.gaisha.3.jpg



If any of you finds a record on how this specific woodblock cut was used or in which printing method, I would appreciate you dropping me a note.



Regards,

Yecheal

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Message 13
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 08:38:07 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27918] Re: Puzzle Woodblock Cut
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The orig. art work looks to have been a commerical wood engraving. This is
generally how the work was processed. An engraver cut the master block, a
few proofs were printed. Then a copy camera would make a negative that negative
would be used to expose photo etching plates. At this point they could make
as many copies as they would need. 8, 16, what ever number of blocks that
could be locked up into a printing chase that would fit on the sheet of paper.

You will remember that the block Dave showed was right reading and looked as
if it was only printed once. If it had been printed a number of times the
areas that had been scorped out would have had been stained with ink when the
block was cleaned. The fact that it was right reading was a bit odd but all
you would have to do to get the correct format in photo etched blocks would
be to have the negative exposed in such a way that the finished letter press
photo etched block would come out backwards which would be no problem at all.

john c.

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