Today's postings
- [Baren 27692] John Amoss demo (Shireen Holman)
- [Baren 27693] Re: Electric carvers (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 27694] Mike and tools (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 27695] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V31 #3020 (Apr 1 (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 27696] Re: scroll mounting class (Bette Norcross Wappner)
- [Baren 27697] Re: Electric carvers ("Matt Laine")
- [Baren 27698] Re: Electric carvers ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
- [Baren 27699] Wesley W, Bates book (Robin Morris)
- [Baren 27700] Re: Electric carvers (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 27701] Re: Wesley W, Bates book (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 27702] Re: Wesley W, Bates book (Robin Morris)
- [Baren 27703] Re: Wesley W, Bates book ("Matt Laine")
- [Baren 27704] Re: Wesley W, Bates book ("Matt Laine")
Message 1
From: Shireen Holman
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:44:21 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27692] John Amoss demo
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Hello everyone,
I'm just back from the SGC conference, and I wanted to say that John Amoss
gave a wonderful demonstration. He brought blocks, tools, paper, inks,
everything! He demonstrated bokashi, and made several prints. Lots of
people attended. Great job.
Shireen
***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireen@shireenholman.com
http://www.shireenholman.com
***********************************************
I'm just back from the SGC conference, and I wanted to say that John Amoss
gave a wonderful demonstration. He brought blocks, tools, paper, inks,
everything! He demonstrated bokashi, and made several prints. Lots of
people attended. Great job.
Shireen
***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireen@shireenholman.com
http://www.shireenholman.com
***********************************************
Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:18:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 27693] Re: Electric carvers
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Jeff from Hamburg, NY wrote:
>Hello, everyone. I know this whole topic will upset some people, and if it
>weren't me, well, I'd be upset, too. I cringe at any artwork that uses
>computers, I hate the idea of electric presses, etc. But, anyway, I saw an
>incredible tool last night on television. It was an electric chisel. It
>was beautiful, like erasing wood in fine lines.
Dear Jeff,
It being early in April, I must say I felt your posting could not have
arrived at a more perfect time. I have held my tongue for many years, but I
must now step forward and let the world know that I, for one, could not
agree with you more! At last the voice of reason is heard here on
Baren! Upset? Far from it, I am dancing for joy! Computers used to make
Art? What an atrocity! Speaking personally, I have (for more than a
decade now) conspicuously avoided the use of ANY tool and will not suffer
myself to handle anything which has been touched by tools. Electronic
tools (including so-called "computers") are right at the top of my
untouchable list!
I will admit right at the outset that I have NEVER in my life touched (nor
been touched by) a computer -- I call this "abstinence." I do know a few
people who seem to think it's OK to use a computer so long as they wear
rubber gloves, but given the well publicized dangers of viruses and worms,
I think that is completely irresponsible behavior!
I don't know WHY some people seem to be drawn to tool use! It is obviously
gross and I find it appalling! Especially in Art! What an affront... I
mean, don't you agree that if someone uses a TOOL to make something, that
one must, to a large degree, share credit for one's invention with that
tool? And if one uses someone else's tool (and I include tools which have
been made by others, who likely used tools made by still others) isn't it
really then the TOOL which does the making? Of course it is! And anyone
with the capacity to deeply contemplate (by deeply I mean for up to several
moments at a sitting) that electricity is fundamentally evil and should be
confined to its natural activities of scorching trees and golfers and
raising one's arm hairs when one walks on a wool carpet in rubber-soled
shoes in dry weather... For tools and people to have enslaved electricity
and forcing it to go running around inside computers creating artistic
things! Well, that's unspeakable isnt' it!?
I realize that there ARE a minority out there who secretly believe that
computers and other tools are time and labor savers, and that a few of
those even use computers and rulers and pencils and other tools to compose
visual art and do not admit to feeling ashamed or apologetic... I think
those people are totally missing it! I mean, maybe it's difficult for THAT
kind of person to understand the obvious truth that computers are
completely inappropriate for making art, but surely EVERYONE can agree
immediately and without a bit of thought required that the use of computers
in language would completely destroy us! I mean... Imagine if one used a
computer to produce... LANGUAGE! People would look at what was written,
even the most beautiful of sonnets, short stories, novels, songs -- and
simply dismiss them out of hand, saying, "oh -- that's nothing -- a
computer did it!" or "yeah, but she did it on a computer"...
What I am trying to communicate here is that because a computer was
involved in the creative process, there is no telling where the human mind
left off and the machine mind began, is there? If you ever read anything
typed into a word processor you know exactly what I mean... Worthless
garbage! It's so easy to see that with language, isn't it? So why, oh
WHY are some people so blind when it comes to the visual arts? BAN
computers! BAN tools all together!
I mean, if you use a gouge manufactured by some stranger to remove printing
surfaces from a block of wood, isn't that just totally cheating? And
wouldn't you be worried immediately that someone would say, "oh,
that? it's nothing -- a gouge did that!" or "she didn't even mine her own
ore!" I would and often do!
And that is why my own work is so highly valued -- treasured,
even! Because it is dead-center middle-of-the-road! People can appreciate
that it takes a long time for fingernails to grow back after surfacing and
tearing out the fibers from wood in order to make a woodblock for one of my
prints -- and those self-same fibers are the ones I laboriously weave to
'create' my printing paper -- and my colors (duh!) are also 'organic' and
self-manufactured...
So, my short answer to your question about electric gouges and chisels is:
Don't get near 'em! They'll take over your life and work and people will
attribute anything you make using such tools to the tools
themselves. Spare yourself this heartache. Having been one of the million
chimpanzees involved in the million year long "Merchant of Venice" project
I can tell you that not a soul will appreciate your efforts and you will
become a total laughing stock.
-- Mike
http://mlyon.com
>Hello, everyone. I know this whole topic will upset some people, and if it
>weren't me, well, I'd be upset, too. I cringe at any artwork that uses
>computers, I hate the idea of electric presses, etc. But, anyway, I saw an
>incredible tool last night on television. It was an electric chisel. It
>was beautiful, like erasing wood in fine lines.
Dear Jeff,
It being early in April, I must say I felt your posting could not have
arrived at a more perfect time. I have held my tongue for many years, but I
must now step forward and let the world know that I, for one, could not
agree with you more! At last the voice of reason is heard here on
Baren! Upset? Far from it, I am dancing for joy! Computers used to make
Art? What an atrocity! Speaking personally, I have (for more than a
decade now) conspicuously avoided the use of ANY tool and will not suffer
myself to handle anything which has been touched by tools. Electronic
tools (including so-called "computers") are right at the top of my
untouchable list!
I will admit right at the outset that I have NEVER in my life touched (nor
been touched by) a computer -- I call this "abstinence." I do know a few
people who seem to think it's OK to use a computer so long as they wear
rubber gloves, but given the well publicized dangers of viruses and worms,
I think that is completely irresponsible behavior!
I don't know WHY some people seem to be drawn to tool use! It is obviously
gross and I find it appalling! Especially in Art! What an affront... I
mean, don't you agree that if someone uses a TOOL to make something, that
one must, to a large degree, share credit for one's invention with that
tool? And if one uses someone else's tool (and I include tools which have
been made by others, who likely used tools made by still others) isn't it
really then the TOOL which does the making? Of course it is! And anyone
with the capacity to deeply contemplate (by deeply I mean for up to several
moments at a sitting) that electricity is fundamentally evil and should be
confined to its natural activities of scorching trees and golfers and
raising one's arm hairs when one walks on a wool carpet in rubber-soled
shoes in dry weather... For tools and people to have enslaved electricity
and forcing it to go running around inside computers creating artistic
things! Well, that's unspeakable isnt' it!?
I realize that there ARE a minority out there who secretly believe that
computers and other tools are time and labor savers, and that a few of
those even use computers and rulers and pencils and other tools to compose
visual art and do not admit to feeling ashamed or apologetic... I think
those people are totally missing it! I mean, maybe it's difficult for THAT
kind of person to understand the obvious truth that computers are
completely inappropriate for making art, but surely EVERYONE can agree
immediately and without a bit of thought required that the use of computers
in language would completely destroy us! I mean... Imagine if one used a
computer to produce... LANGUAGE! People would look at what was written,
even the most beautiful of sonnets, short stories, novels, songs -- and
simply dismiss them out of hand, saying, "oh -- that's nothing -- a
computer did it!" or "yeah, but she did it on a computer"...
What I am trying to communicate here is that because a computer was
involved in the creative process, there is no telling where the human mind
left off and the machine mind began, is there? If you ever read anything
typed into a word processor you know exactly what I mean... Worthless
garbage! It's so easy to see that with language, isn't it? So why, oh
WHY are some people so blind when it comes to the visual arts? BAN
computers! BAN tools all together!
I mean, if you use a gouge manufactured by some stranger to remove printing
surfaces from a block of wood, isn't that just totally cheating? And
wouldn't you be worried immediately that someone would say, "oh,
that? it's nothing -- a gouge did that!" or "she didn't even mine her own
ore!" I would and often do!
And that is why my own work is so highly valued -- treasured,
even! Because it is dead-center middle-of-the-road! People can appreciate
that it takes a long time for fingernails to grow back after surfacing and
tearing out the fibers from wood in order to make a woodblock for one of my
prints -- and those self-same fibers are the ones I laboriously weave to
'create' my printing paper -- and my colors (duh!) are also 'organic' and
self-manufactured...
So, my short answer to your question about electric gouges and chisels is:
Don't get near 'em! They'll take over your life and work and people will
attribute anything you make using such tools to the tools
themselves. Spare yourself this heartache. Having been one of the million
chimpanzees involved in the million year long "Merchant of Venice" project
I can tell you that not a soul will appreciate your efforts and you will
become a total laughing stock.
-- Mike
http://mlyon.com
Message 3
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 07:36:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 27694] Mike and tools
Send Message: To this poster
OK, Everyone, send Mike all those tools you are not using, lets make him really crazy!
This was so funny Mike, knowing your computer expertise and your carving methods....tools rule, right?
Best to all,
Barbara
This was so funny Mike, knowing your computer expertise and your carving methods....tools rule, right?
Best to all,
Barbara
Message 4
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 09:55:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 27695] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V31 #3020 (Apr 1
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Wanda wrote:
>I also use birch ply - but I get the stuff they call 'apple core' at my
>local lumber yard (& I've found some at Home Depot at a much lower
>price!) It is also called 'all birch' plywood - which just means that the
>whole thing is birch - no mahogany or whatever thrown into the middle
>layers. It is made to build kitchen cupboards & furniture, so it is
>pretty gap-free. I have found the glue to not be so hard & brittle as the
>cheaper birch ply too -- so it's not as hard on your carving tools.
Oh, Wanda! You've 'jogged' my memory! There is a plywood -- available 1/4
to 3/8 inch, I think, which has a relatively soft MDF core with one 'good'
hardwood ply side and one 'cheap' (usually luan or the like) side -- it is
easy to carve except for the glue layer which is quite hard, and because it
is MDF core -- NO GAPS! Plywood enthusiasts should try that!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
>I also use birch ply - but I get the stuff they call 'apple core' at my
>local lumber yard (& I've found some at Home Depot at a much lower
>price!) It is also called 'all birch' plywood - which just means that the
>whole thing is birch - no mahogany or whatever thrown into the middle
>layers. It is made to build kitchen cupboards & furniture, so it is
>pretty gap-free. I have found the glue to not be so hard & brittle as the
>cheaper birch ply too -- so it's not as hard on your carving tools.
Oh, Wanda! You've 'jogged' my memory! There is a plywood -- available 1/4
to 3/8 inch, I think, which has a relatively soft MDF core with one 'good'
hardwood ply side and one 'cheap' (usually luan or the like) side -- it is
easy to carve except for the glue layer which is quite hard, and because it
is MDF core -- NO GAPS! Plywood enthusiasts should try that!
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
Kansas City, Missouri
http://mlyon.com
Message 5
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:12:47 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27696] Re: scroll mounting class
Send Message: To this poster
>C:\Documents and Settings\claudia coonen\My Documents\My Pictures\kid's
>bookmaking class yoshimura's class
>
>claudia on maui
------------------------------
Hi Claudia, I wish I could have taken the scroll mounting class. I'm
anxious to see the photos.
The link you gave below, doesn't work unfortunately. Links need to
look like this: http://www.barenforum.org/ - with [ http://www. ]
in the beginning of the link and [ .org ] or [.com ] or [ .edu ]
for instance, in the end of the link.
Hope this helps. Don't give up, you'll get the hang of these
computers - our mechanical friends (right Mike? :)))
Bette
(Kentucky)
>bookmaking class yoshimura's class
>
>claudia on maui
------------------------------
Hi Claudia, I wish I could have taken the scroll mounting class. I'm
anxious to see the photos.
The link you gave below, doesn't work unfortunately. Links need to
look like this: http://www.barenforum.org/ - with [ http://www. ]
in the beginning of the link and [ .org ] or [.com ] or [ .edu ]
for instance, in the end of the link.
Hope this helps. Don't give up, you'll get the hang of these
computers - our mechanical friends (right Mike? :)))
Bette
(Kentucky)
Message 6
From: "Matt Laine"
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:07:28 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27697] Re: Electric carvers
Send Message: To this poster
Fingernails are NG -- teeth might work better?
>... And that is why my own work is so highly valued -- treasured, even!
> Because it is dead-center middle-of-the-road! People can appreciate that
> it takes a long time for fingernails to grow back after surfacing and
> tearing out the fibers from wood in order to make a woodblock for one of
> my prints -- and those self-same fibers are the ones I laboriously weave
> to 'create' my printing paper -- and my colors (duh!) are also 'organic'
> and self-manufactured...
>... And that is why my own work is so highly valued -- treasured, even!
> Because it is dead-center middle-of-the-road! People can appreciate that
> it takes a long time for fingernails to grow back after surfacing and
> tearing out the fibers from wood in order to make a woodblock for one of
> my prints -- and those self-same fibers are the ones I laboriously weave
> to 'create' my printing paper -- and my colors (duh!) are also 'organic'
> and self-manufactured...
Message 7
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 11:04:34 -0700
Subject: [Baren 27698] Re: Electric carvers
Send Message: To this poster
No no! My bentith fay teef no goo' neiber fo' carvin', twy fork!
:-)
I continually have to laugh at all the "rules" that artists impose
themselves! And how inconsistently! We have "hand-pulled" prints that are
done with a mechanical press? Perhaps even a motorized mechanical device
driven by electricity? But still considered a hand-pulled print?
We have hand-carved woodcuts that are carved by a hand holding a Fordam or
Dremel (I have such animals, and the horrid aformentioned Roto-zip too!).
But still they are hand-carved...at least for exhibition entries and pricing
purposes, heh.
...And after you slop some ink on a piece of paper, you better number them
suckers with a No. 2 pencil.
I'm posting Mike's email on the door of the studio, right under my "artist
at work" sign.
Happy ziiiiiiing-ziiiiinnnnnnggggg-vrrrrrrrmmming everyone!
Maria, insanely busy and desperately searching for a
sun-powered-self-erecting 10x10 booth
PS Welcome back Daryl! Join an exchange, will ya?
Maria Arango
www.1000woodcuts.com
Las Vegas Nevada USA
:-)
I continually have to laugh at all the "rules" that artists impose
themselves! And how inconsistently! We have "hand-pulled" prints that are
done with a mechanical press? Perhaps even a motorized mechanical device
driven by electricity? But still considered a hand-pulled print?
We have hand-carved woodcuts that are carved by a hand holding a Fordam or
Dremel (I have such animals, and the horrid aformentioned Roto-zip too!).
But still they are hand-carved...at least for exhibition entries and pricing
purposes, heh.
...And after you slop some ink on a piece of paper, you better number them
suckers with a No. 2 pencil.
I'm posting Mike's email on the door of the studio, right under my "artist
at work" sign.
Happy ziiiiiiing-ziiiiinnnnnnggggg-vrrrrrrrmmming everyone!
Maria, insanely busy and desperately searching for a
sun-powered-self-erecting 10x10 booth
PS Welcome back Daryl! Join an exchange, will ya?
Maria Arango
www.1000woodcuts.com
Las Vegas Nevada USA
Message 8
From: Robin Morris
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 12:29:03 -0700
Subject: [Baren 27699] Wesley W, Bates book
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Hi all, I get these letters (ads really) from Oak Knoll press- they
have much of specialized nature relating to the book arts, and this
bookfrom a Canadian engraver looked interesting, perhaps a good
template for a wood engraver's careeer...
The book costs I think over 200 bucks (Oak Knoll does fine art books at
fine art prices) so I'm not saying rush out and buy one...unless u
could afford it. I'm holding off...But is anyone aware of Mr. bates,
and is he perhaps a member of baren forum?
Maybe someone should invite him to join if not.
Thanks,
RM
In other print related news my son Devan, 15, will be joining me for
the class at City College in letterpress. I am very happy about this as
we will get to spend all that time together working on a neat book, and
learning. Dev attended a video class with me at college a couple years
ago. I encourage any you oldsters like me to grab your kids and drag
them along when you go "back" to school. if you can.
have much of specialized nature relating to the book arts, and this
bookfrom a Canadian engraver looked interesting, perhaps a good
template for a wood engraver's careeer...
The book costs I think over 200 bucks (Oak Knoll does fine art books at
fine art prices) so I'm not saying rush out and buy one...unless u
could afford it. I'm holding off...But is anyone aware of Mr. bates,
and is he perhaps a member of baren forum?
Maybe someone should invite him to join if not.
Thanks,
RM
In other print related news my son Devan, 15, will be joining me for
the class at City College in letterpress. I am very happy about this as
we will get to spend all that time together working on a neat book, and
learning. Dev attended a video class with me at college a couple years
ago. I encourage any you oldsters like me to grab your kids and drag
them along when you go "back" to school. if you can.
Message 9
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:48:25 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27700] Re: Electric carvers
Send Message: To this poster
Maria wrote:
>done with a mechanical press? Perhaps even a motorized mechanical device
>driven by electricity? But still considered a hand-pulled print?
>We have hand-carved woodcuts that are carved by a hand holding a Fordam or
>Dremel (I have such animals, and the horrid aformentioned Roto-zip too!).
>But still they are hand-carved...at least for exhibition entries and pricing
>purposes, heh.
hand pulled prints hand pulled by my printing ass't vandercook.
>done with a mechanical press? Perhaps even a motorized mechanical device
>driven by electricity? But still considered a hand-pulled print?
>We have hand-carved woodcuts that are carved by a hand holding a Fordam or
>Dremel (I have such animals, and the horrid aformentioned Roto-zip too!).
>But still they are hand-carved...at least for exhibition entries and pricing
>purposes, heh.
hand pulled prints hand pulled by my printing ass't vandercook.
Message 10
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:50:02 EDT
Subject: [Baren 27701] Re: Wesley W, Bates book
Send Message: To this poster
the book in question is also out in a trade edition which i got for about 8$
canadian. For learning the trade version is just as good.
john c.
canadian. For learning the trade version is just as good.
john c.
Message 11
From: Robin Morris
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:16:45 -0700
Subject: [Baren 27702] Re: Wesley W, Bates book
Send Message: To this poster
Thanks John, will look for.
RM
RM
Message 12
From: "Matt Laine"
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:31:11 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27703] Re: Wesley W, Bates book
Send Message: To this poster
I must have missed the original post -- what is the Wesley W. Bates book? I
assume it deals with block printmaking?
Where can I get an $8 Can. copy?
Thanks,
Matt
assume it deals with block printmaking?
Where can I get an $8 Can. copy?
Thanks,
Matt
Message 13
From: "Matt Laine"
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:45:42 -0400
Subject: [Baren 27704] Re: Wesley W, Bates book
Send Message: To this poster
Scratch that WW Bates post -- I googled the name and got the info.