Today's postings

  1. [Baren 23562] Re: carving question (Charles Morgan)
  2. [Baren 23563] Re: carving question (Mike Lyon)
  3. [Baren 23564] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple... (Mike Lyon)
  4. [Baren 23565] Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Troy Harris)
  5. [Baren 23566] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Jsf73 # aol.com)
  6. [Baren 23567] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple... ("Maria Arango")
  7. [Baren 23568] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Troy Harris)
  8. [Baren 23569] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Jsf73 # aol.com)
  9. [Baren 23570] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Troy Harris)
  10. [Baren 23571] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood (Jsf73 # aol.com)
  11. [Baren 23572] Re: carving question (David Bull)
  12. [Baren 23573] reserfacing blocks (FurryPressII # aol.com)
  13. [Baren 23574] Saturday Afternoon at 55 Mercer ("April Vollmer")
  14. [Baren 23575] Corian vs. Resingrave (Troy Harris)
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Message 1
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:07:24 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23562] Re: carving question
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Barbara,

I am not at all disturbed that you should seek other opinions. I would be
happy to hear what Dave has to say.

Sometimes the written directions are confusing. For example, see "Japanese
Print Making" by Toshi Yoshida and Rei Yuki. On page 40 they say:

"Holding the to in the above described position, the carver rests its edge
on the surface of the block, pointing it at the drawing with the flat side
of the edge along the line and slightly aslant at an angle of between
seventy-five and eight degrees."

Kinda sounds like the beveled part should be away from the line, doesn't
it? BUT when you look at the diagram on page 41, all should be clear. He
means, the sharp edge should follow the line, but the bevel should be
toward the side you are going to keep ... otherwise you would be SERIOUSLY
undercutting the edge.

Similarly, have a look at "The Art and Craft of Woodblock Printmaking" by
Laitinen, Moilanen, and Tanttu. The diagram on page 217 is VERY clear.

Of course you are right that whether or not you undercut the edge does
depend on the angle at which you hold the knife. But you would have to hold
it at a much greater angle to avoid undercutting if you are cutting with
the beveled edge away from what you want to keep.

As far as compression goes, my experience is that the beveled side of the
blade does not compress the wood. The flat side of the blade compresses the
wood, raising a slight ridge. That is to be expected from the physics of
it. The beveled side acts like an inclined plane, and the wood sliding
along it puts greater pressure on the flat side. You do not want that
raised edge to be on the side of the line you are keeping.

In the end, whatever you get used to that works for you is fine. Anybody
else want to express an opinion, please join in !!!!

Cheers ........ Charles
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Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:51:49 -0600
Subject: [Baren 23563] Re: carving question
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Well, I gotta jump in here, too, I guess.

To the wood, the 'flat' side of the blade and the 'bevel' side of the blade
are indistinguishable. All the wood 'sees' is an edge -- the wood hasn't
any clue whether the blade outside the cut follows the bevel side or the
flat side. The only difference is that the 'flat' side is harder all along
it's width while the bevel side may have some softer metal along the
trailing side.

From the operator standpoint the blade steers a median path, halfway
between the flat side angle and the bevel (unless you push the blade so
deeply in that the bevel ends inside the wood leaving an edge more or less
parallel to the flat side, then the blade will follow a path slightly
closer to the flat vector, but still close to halfway between flat and bevel.

The 'curl' or 'lip' or 'burr' you notice on the 'waste' side of the cut is
because as the blade is pulled through the wood at an angle, the wood must
get out of the way somehow, and it moves in the direction of least
resistance -- the wood under the blade is slightly compressed, and the wood
above the blade (the acute angle of wood which 'curls' up as you cut
actually distorts to get out of the way of the blade. As you attempt to
cut deeper and deeper it becomes more and more difficult for you to move
the wood out of the way (no matter how sharp the toh) and you eventually
become unable to draw the knife (or the blade 'skis' up shallower and your
hand tends to slip -- oops!).

You run slightly less risk of breaking the blade while carving convex
(outside) curves if the bevel of the knife is on 'top' during the cut, but
the wood cannot tell the difference whether the bevel is up or down and is
cut exactly the same either way.

I think.

Gee, this stuff is difficult to describe concisely, isn't it?!?

Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
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Message 3
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:55:12 -0600
Subject: [Baren 23564] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple...
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At 12:15 PM 12/12/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I checked the archives cound not find it. Is it better because planing
>does not leave any grit on the surface of the block?

because (microscopically), the fiber bundles of the wood are cleanly sliced
by the plane but are roughly abraded by the sand paper, no matter how fine
(although who among us can tell the difference between well-planed surface
and sanded to very fine >600 grit in the printing?).

Mike


Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
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Message 4
From: Troy Harris
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:18:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23565] Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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I was wondering what kind of saw I should use for
cutting and squaring up boxwood.

I have heard of the old trim-o-saws by Hammond Machine
that were used for cutting lead type and that some
printmakers have modified these for use with wood type
and blocks.

Was/is there a saw made for cutting and squaring up
raw boxwood?

Thanks for any info,

Troy

__________________________________
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Message 5
From: Jsf73 # aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:37:46 EST
Subject: [Baren 23566] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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In a message dated 12/12/03 4:18:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
troyinformer@yahoo.com writes:


> I was wondering what kind of saw I should use for
> cutting and squaring up boxwood.
>
> I have heard of the old trim-o-saws by Hammond Machine
> that were used for cutting lead type and that some
> printmakers have modified these for use with wood type
> and blocks.
>
> Was/is there a saw made for cutting and squaring up
> raw boxwood?
>
> Thanks for any info,

Troy,

For what it is worth old engraving blocks and woodtype were not cut to height
but planed with a rotary planer, rather like a large milling machine. They
had a cutting radius of 12" or more and the wood was fed under the cutter on a
sliding bed. This ensured the block was both perfectly level and type high for
printing on press along with written text.

assuming you are trimming down your block you will be hand pulling prints
rather than printing on a press, so you only need to have a level block.

Run the block thru a thickness planer to start until you are just below the
depth of the existing image. Then finish with maria's recommended course of
sandpapers from a large grit up to a fine grit. I just used this method holding
the sandpaper (black carbide waterproof) on the flat table top and running the
block over top of it... this keeps the face level. If you use a block or your
hand the face of the block can become convex or concave. Inexpensive sanding
tables that are similar to a belt sander will work nicely, and considering
engraving blocks are usually small the face of the block can be completely covered
on a single pass.

I dont sand past 400 grit. At the WEN summer workshop they recommended the
final finish be done with a cabinet scraper....or safety razor held
perpendicular to the block face... The razor put a mirror finish on my blocks. In fact my
blocks are so good I am afraid to use them for just any old engraving ;-)

Of course this is for END GRAIN engraving blocks. The end grain resists
gouging if you slip with the razor. If you use this techique on plank grain you
might take a nice nick out of the wood.

John Furr
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Message 6
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:41:04 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23567] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple...
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Mike already answered, has to do with the clean cut of the plane versus
the "fuzz" left by the sandpaper (microscopically speaking); kind of
like cutting hair with dull scissors. Certainly in printing with oil
based inks, the difference is nonconsequential (practically speaking).
When printing with waterbased inks, the fuzzy fibers swell and may give
less than crisp results. Again, in practical terms, after sanding with
1200 grit??? I jus' dunno if there is a difference.

I use a Workmate bench that clamps the block by its sides, leaving the
top 1/4" free for planing the entire surface. A basic woodworking plane
will do but spend some time sharpening the thing to a razor's edge and
then some more time making sure that the blade is _absolutely_ even from
side to side.
When planing the trick is to shave off very thin shavings from edge to
edge, following a pattern so that you don't lower the block more in one
area than another. Once the plane starts resisting, pop that blade out
and hone again. My first blocks looked like remnants of dog-chewed
hamburger; after some practice I was able to have my pet mouse ice-skate
on the blocks. Okay, there might be some exaggeration in there...

Good luck with it and do share any tips and tricks you learn along the
way.
Maria
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Message 7
From: Troy Harris
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:48:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23568] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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When you say safety razor do you mean just hold a free
blade and run it across the top? Such as a razor
blade that is used for cutting Mat board?

By cabinet scraper to you mean a hand plane? Or is a
cabinet scraper a specialized plane?
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Message 8
From: Jsf73 # aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:59:01 EST
Subject: [Baren 23569] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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In a message dated 12/12/03 4:49:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
troyinformer@yahoo.com writes:


> When you say safety razor do you mean just hold a free
> blade and run it across the top? Such as a razor
> blade that is used for cutting Mat board?
>
> By cabinet scraper to you mean a hand plane? Or is a
> cabinet scraper a specialized plane?
>

Hi Troy,

A safety razor with a edge only on one side, and a folded over edge to hold
on the other. They have them at home depot for scaping paint off glass
windows.. The ones for cutting mat board may be the same. Hold the razor vertically
and scape in one direction then the other. The edge quickly wears to the other
side so you have to keep reversing the blade direction. It is shearing off the
fibers very smoothly as you do this and you will make a lot of very fine dust.
It also scapes the loose fibers out of the grooves you made by the sanding.

A cabinet scraper is like a plane, but the edge is at a much higher angle and
you can hold the "blade" in your hand...

See link:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=&page=32670&
category=1,310,41069

p.s. the shavings raised with a scraper are not as large as shown in the pic,
that was done just for the photo and they used shavings that are from a
planer....
These are just like a large safety razor.

John Furr

If you are interested email me off list and I can scan some pics of old
woodworking machines for preparing woodblocks for printing...
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Message 9
From: Troy Harris
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:03:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23570] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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Thanks for all this good info everyone,

So do most serious wood engravers just buy their own
raw boxwood logs and cut slices on a bandsaw and
finish it themselves?

I was looking at the finished boxwood prices from
Europe and the prices are very high, that's why I'm
interested in finishing it myself.

Have a good weekend all.
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Message 10
From: Jsf73 # aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 17:09:42 EST
Subject: [Baren 23571] Re: Trim-O-Saw or letterpress saw for boxwood
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In a message dated 12/12/03 5:03:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
troyinformer@yahoo.com writes:


> Thanks for all this good info everyone,
>
> So do most serious wood engravers just buy their own
> raw boxwood logs and cut slices on a bandsaw and
> finish it themselves?
>
> I was looking at the finished boxwood prices from
> Europe and the prices are very high, that's why I'm
> interested in finishing it myself.
>
> Have a good weekend all.

Most engravers I met use End grain maple glued up into larger boards. They
buy them prepared and they do a final finish with the razor or scaper. Art
Boards was selling them.

I know of one person who uses boxwood and she in from britain and she gets
her "logs" when neighbors have their shrubbery trimmed or cut down... It is very
hard to come buy and when you do fid it the rounds are very narrow. I dont
think it is worth the expense.

As I said earlier, Emma Jane's father was thinking of selling blocks, and I
spoke with my father in law and he will make blocks when spring rolls around
again and he opens his shop again in his garage.
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Message 11
From: David Bull
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:29:47 +0900
Subject: [Baren 23572] Re: carving question
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Barbara wrote:
> the flat side of the knife against the line.

> Dave, give me an answer here once and for all so I get it right!

Before I answer, do I have to preface the comment with my 'usual'
disclaimer - "In the kind of work that I do ..."? :-)

It is vitally important for the flat side of the knife to be against the
wood to be retained. As the knife passes through the plank, the wood on
each side is compressed in different ways depending on the way the bevel
is cut.

There always seems to be confusion between the bevel that must be left
on the raised line and the bevel on the knife blade. These have no
connection. The bevel left on the raised line is produced by the
overall angle at which the knife is held, not by the bevel on the
sharpened surface of the blade.

Mike added:
> To the wood, the 'flat' side of the blade and the 'bevel'
> side of the blade are indistinguishable.

Sorry to disagree Mike, but this is not true. _If_ the blade were
bevelled on both sides, and _if_ it were moved through the wood while
being held completely vertically, then yes, the compression on both
sides would be equal. Neither of those conditions is true in real life.

The pressure that drives the blade down into the wood comes _straight_
down the haft of the knife, down through the blade - operating in a way
_parallel_ to the flat side of the blade. Imagine looking head-on at a
boat plowing through the water - but imagine only _half_ the boat
(ignore the other half). The centre line of that boat (the flat side of
our blade) slices straight into the water, driven by the power that is
applied right down that centre line from the propeller at the back. Then
look at the way that the water is peeled away and tossed to one side by
the _bevel_ of the boat's hull. That's _exactly_ what happens with our
bevelled knife. (This has _nothing_ to do with the bevel left on the
raised wood - that is produced by tilting the boat ... er, blade) So
the wood against the bevelled side of the blade becomes compressed to
some degree by the passage of that chunk of steel through the plank.
Depending on what type of wood it is, it may recover, it may not.

If you are carving delicate hairlines in cherry, this is vitally
important - that compressed wood _must_ be the wood that will be removed
from the block. If you are carving wide areas in plywood, it might not
matter at all.

Dave
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Message 12
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:22:01 -0500
Subject: [Baren 23573] reserfacing blocks
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use a router set up to work over the block dremal has a set up that works for small blocks and then sand starting at 50 grit to as fine as you need 1200 seems to be as fine as you need.

john
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Message 13
From: "April Vollmer"
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:27:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 23574] Saturday Afternoon at 55 Mercer
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I'm not sure I posted the snow date for our demonstration!

You are invited to the rescheduled woodcut demonstration for the "Out of
Nagasawa" show. We did the demo for each other last week in the middle of
the snowstorm. We thought it would be nice to have some other people, too!

Saturday, December 13, 55 Mercer Street Gallery in Soho, NYC from 4:00 p.m.
to 6:00 p.m. phone 212-226-8513.

"Out of Nagasawa: Japanese Method Woodblock Prints from Around the World"
will be at 55 Mercer Street until December 20. Regular hours are Tues to
Saturday 10:00 am to 6:00 pm. It has been great to meet so many artists from
around the world who are doing moku hanga. Some photos are on my website at
www.aprilvollmer.com/nagasawa

best,

April Vollmer
www.aprilvollmer.com
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Message 14
From: Troy Harris
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:10:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23575] Corian vs. Resingrave
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Hi,

Was just curious if anyone here has engraved on both
Corian and Resingrave and if so, do you have a
preference? Does corian cut cleaner and finer than
resingrave?

Also are there any new alternatives to Corian? Corian
was invented in 1966 and just wondered if anything new
came out since then that works well for engraving, or
is Boxwood still the best?

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