Today's postings
- [Baren 42052] Re: Baren Member blogs: Update Notification (Sam Bishop)
- [Baren 42053] Re: Moku hanga exchange (Plannedscapes # aol.com)
- [Baren 42054] Re: Baren Member blogs: Update Notification (Adriana Luna)
- [Baren 42055] Re: Moku hanga exchange ("Maria Arango Diener")
- [Baren 42056] Re: Moku Hanga Exchange (AEleen Frisch)
- [Baren 42057] Exchange 46 - Jean Womack (Diane Cutter)
- [Baren 42058] Re: Moku hanga exchange ("DePry Clan")
- [Baren 42059] Re: Moku hanga exchange (Raymond Hudson)
- [Baren 42060] Re: Moku Hanga Exchange ("Ellen Shipley")
- [Baren 42061] Re: Digested ::: Re: Moku hanga exchange (Gayle Wohlken)
- [Baren 42062] Re: Digested ::: Re: Moku hanga exchange (mary caulfield)
Message 1
From: Sam Bishop
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:42:47 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42052] Re: Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
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Please remove me from your email list.
Sam Bishop
3dotsam@att.net
Sam Bishop
3dotsam@att.net
Message 2
From: Plannedscapes # aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:38:18 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42053] Re: Moku hanga exchange
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I have been thinking about this and must admit my first response to a
specified technique is negative. The more I think about this one, the less I
like it, so here goes:
This is a relief printing forum and we join it because we fit into a
fairly broad definition of relief printing. We support linoleum block, wood
block of various species, carving onto sides or ends of the block, carving
into plastic, and we support positive printing where the raised part of the
carving prints and negative printing where the cut down part does the
printing. We support hand printing and press printing.
Yes, we have a name relating to a particular tool of a particular style,
and that is, to my understanding, because that is a tool our founder uses,
and something that we all use to some extent, whether it is a wooden spoon, a
hand, a marble egg, a metal spoon, or in my case, a teak bowl. For
others, the function is served by a press. But there is the common need to
transfer the ink from the block to the paper.
However, within this broad definition, each individual artist has developed
a style. Over many years of trial and error, thru things they have been
exposed to, thru personal preference, taste, if you will, and to ask a
person to work in a style or media that is not 'theirs' seems unfair and almost
in a way, disrespectful to them.
Asking a person to work on a specific theme seems less like that to me, and
more like giving us a little push to express ourselves and explore. My
art is nature themed, so it is fun to see if I can achieve the theme with a
nature themed print or how far out of my niche I have to step to make it
happen.
But to ask me to change 'media' is too much.
If this were a painting forum that welcomed all kinds of painters, to have
a show that required oil paintings would seem unfair to the watercolor
painters and pastel painters and ink painters and acrylic painters. If it were
a oil painting forum, requiring oil painting would be natural, or even
holding a special show of watercolor where all step out of their medium might
be a fun thing.
Anyway, moku hanga is not my style or my medium and I would not participate
for that reason alone. Not gonna invest in something I use/do once
because I have no interest in it. Does that make me lazy or just practical?
I also would rather have the wonderful artists here work in their
medium/style. They are accomplished in that and asking them to learn a new one for
an exchange is asking for a lot of, well, not so accomplished products. I
would rather have a great print in the artist's chosen medium/style than a
less than great print in a style they learned just for the exchange. In
that I do exchanges at least partly to acquire a nice 'collection' to enjoy,
I would be less motivated to participate.
The other issue is the definition. From what I can tell, the definition
of moku hanga is simply 'Japanese style woodblock printing' - therefore, it
is inappropriate for us to be copying it. It is kinda like going as an
Amish person or an American Indian for Halloween. Most of us are not
Japanese and will not have studied what really constitutes the essence of this
style enough to really get it. We will be making cheap copies of our
stereotype of a genuine style. Few in this forum have studied the style or the
culture enough to do it justice. I fear it will play to stereotypes and
superficial likeness and not true understanding.
All that said, I realize that if I don't like it, I just don't have to sign
up. So this will be my one and only complaint about it. But I do see
forcing a style/medium as distinctly different from forcing a theme and a
paper size, somewhat disrespectful of the expertise each artist has developed
in their style/medium. And I see forcing this cultural style as one step
beyond that in inappropriateness.
One last note: If the vote goes to do this style, then PLEASE do not do
it annually or even almost annually - I do not want to be excluded from being
able to participate in 20% of the exchanges if this were done every 5th
exchange which is what I heard as the last proposal floated.
Thanks for tolerating my strong opinions.
In a message dated 9/24/2010 8:09:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
specified technique is negative. The more I think about this one, the less I
like it, so here goes:
This is a relief printing forum and we join it because we fit into a
fairly broad definition of relief printing. We support linoleum block, wood
block of various species, carving onto sides or ends of the block, carving
into plastic, and we support positive printing where the raised part of the
carving prints and negative printing where the cut down part does the
printing. We support hand printing and press printing.
Yes, we have a name relating to a particular tool of a particular style,
and that is, to my understanding, because that is a tool our founder uses,
and something that we all use to some extent, whether it is a wooden spoon, a
hand, a marble egg, a metal spoon, or in my case, a teak bowl. For
others, the function is served by a press. But there is the common need to
transfer the ink from the block to the paper.
However, within this broad definition, each individual artist has developed
a style. Over many years of trial and error, thru things they have been
exposed to, thru personal preference, taste, if you will, and to ask a
person to work in a style or media that is not 'theirs' seems unfair and almost
in a way, disrespectful to them.
Asking a person to work on a specific theme seems less like that to me, and
more like giving us a little push to express ourselves and explore. My
art is nature themed, so it is fun to see if I can achieve the theme with a
nature themed print or how far out of my niche I have to step to make it
happen.
But to ask me to change 'media' is too much.
If this were a painting forum that welcomed all kinds of painters, to have
a show that required oil paintings would seem unfair to the watercolor
painters and pastel painters and ink painters and acrylic painters. If it were
a oil painting forum, requiring oil painting would be natural, or even
holding a special show of watercolor where all step out of their medium might
be a fun thing.
Anyway, moku hanga is not my style or my medium and I would not participate
for that reason alone. Not gonna invest in something I use/do once
because I have no interest in it. Does that make me lazy or just practical?
I also would rather have the wonderful artists here work in their
medium/style. They are accomplished in that and asking them to learn a new one for
an exchange is asking for a lot of, well, not so accomplished products. I
would rather have a great print in the artist's chosen medium/style than a
less than great print in a style they learned just for the exchange. In
that I do exchanges at least partly to acquire a nice 'collection' to enjoy,
I would be less motivated to participate.
The other issue is the definition. From what I can tell, the definition
of moku hanga is simply 'Japanese style woodblock printing' - therefore, it
is inappropriate for us to be copying it. It is kinda like going as an
Amish person or an American Indian for Halloween. Most of us are not
Japanese and will not have studied what really constitutes the essence of this
style enough to really get it. We will be making cheap copies of our
stereotype of a genuine style. Few in this forum have studied the style or the
culture enough to do it justice. I fear it will play to stereotypes and
superficial likeness and not true understanding.
All that said, I realize that if I don't like it, I just don't have to sign
up. So this will be my one and only complaint about it. But I do see
forcing a style/medium as distinctly different from forcing a theme and a
paper size, somewhat disrespectful of the expertise each artist has developed
in their style/medium. And I see forcing this cultural style as one step
beyond that in inappropriateness.
One last note: If the vote goes to do this style, then PLEASE do not do
it annually or even almost annually - I do not want to be excluded from being
able to participate in 20% of the exchanges if this were done every 5th
exchange which is what I heard as the last proposal floated.
Thanks for tolerating my strong opinions.
In a message dated 9/24/2010 8:09:48 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
Message 3
From: Adriana Luna
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:23:53 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42054] Re: Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
Send Message: To this poster
Me, too. Thank you.
aluna@kcai.edu
aluna@kcai.edu
Message 4
From: "Maria Arango Diener"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:11:37 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42055] Re: Moku hanga exchange
Send Message: To this poster
Yikes! Do we have to do this every time we suggest a "technique" exchange?
"Forcing a cultural style?" "Disrespectful?" Seriously? You would think
we're asking people to try out each other's religion.hmmm, maybe not a bad
idea toward the goal of world peace?
Rather than "just being a tool our founder uses", Barenforum was founded
specifically to discuss and foster the Japanese technique of making prints.
Obviously there are and can be many styles within that and we aren't asking
everyone to draw and print a Samurai. We have evolved, yes, I'm an oily
person primarily and had some to do with that evolution (oh gawd, another
bad word), but let's show a little more respect toward the foundation of
what has become modern Baren, please! We welcome all styles all the time but
let's not step on the original Baren.
Incidentally, I have dressed as an Native American for Halloween in the
past.and a Catholic nun, a homeless person, a German tourist, and a
leopard.just to name a few, no disrespect to lions and tigers. Trying to
inject some humor, s'all.
In any case, let's not make a HUGE deal out of every technique exchange,
every single time we suggest it, shall we? The specific purpose of the
technique exchange WAS originally, to FOSTER a diversion of techniques, to
OPEN everyone's eyes and hands to diversity rather than to shut out the few
who don't get excited about a specific technique.
I honestly fail to see a HUGE difference between a specific technique
exchange and a specific theme exchange. A bottle of sumi and a $1.98 tube of
rice paste is all it takes; oh, and a couple of sheets of Masa. Nobody
participates in every single exchange, so what's the big deal?
I'm not crazy about a few of the themes that are proposed. I simply choose
not to participate without so much of a fuss.
Maria
PS How about an engraving sometime?
[=o=][=o=][=o=][=o=]
www.1000woodcuts.com
www.artfestivalguide.info
[=o=][=o=][=o=][=o=]
"Forcing a cultural style?" "Disrespectful?" Seriously? You would think
we're asking people to try out each other's religion.hmmm, maybe not a bad
idea toward the goal of world peace?
Rather than "just being a tool our founder uses", Barenforum was founded
specifically to discuss and foster the Japanese technique of making prints.
Obviously there are and can be many styles within that and we aren't asking
everyone to draw and print a Samurai. We have evolved, yes, I'm an oily
person primarily and had some to do with that evolution (oh gawd, another
bad word), but let's show a little more respect toward the foundation of
what has become modern Baren, please! We welcome all styles all the time but
let's not step on the original Baren.
Incidentally, I have dressed as an Native American for Halloween in the
past.and a Catholic nun, a homeless person, a German tourist, and a
leopard.just to name a few, no disrespect to lions and tigers. Trying to
inject some humor, s'all.
In any case, let's not make a HUGE deal out of every technique exchange,
every single time we suggest it, shall we? The specific purpose of the
technique exchange WAS originally, to FOSTER a diversion of techniques, to
OPEN everyone's eyes and hands to diversity rather than to shut out the few
who don't get excited about a specific technique.
I honestly fail to see a HUGE difference between a specific technique
exchange and a specific theme exchange. A bottle of sumi and a $1.98 tube of
rice paste is all it takes; oh, and a couple of sheets of Masa. Nobody
participates in every single exchange, so what's the big deal?
I'm not crazy about a few of the themes that are proposed. I simply choose
not to participate without so much of a fuss.
Maria
PS How about an engraving sometime?
[=o=][=o=][=o=][=o=]
www.1000woodcuts.com
www.artfestivalguide.info
[=o=][=o=][=o=][=o=]
Message 5
From: AEleen Frisch
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:52:56 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42056] Re: Moku Hanga Exchange
Send Message: To this poster
I agree with Maria. I don't see any difference between having a Moku
Hanga exchange and having a 3 color reduction exchange. I don't happen
to do reduction prints, so I just opted out. Themes are not personal.
--
AEleen Frisch, Ph.D.
aefrisch@lorentzian.com
Exponential Consulting
340 Quinnipiac St. Bldg. 40
Wallingford, CT 06492 USA
203-284-2501
Hanga exchange and having a 3 color reduction exchange. I don't happen
to do reduction prints, so I just opted out. Themes are not personal.
--
AEleen Frisch, Ph.D.
aefrisch@lorentzian.com
Exponential Consulting
340 Quinnipiac St. Bldg. 40
Wallingford, CT 06492 USA
203-284-2501
Message 6
From: Diane Cutter
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:46:19 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42057] Exchange 46 - Jean Womack
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Jean...
I tried to contact you by email to let you know you have been moved from the
Wait List to the regular participants. The email bounced so please contact me
via my email or at coordinator46@barenforum.org to reconfirm your participation.
Thanks...
Diane
www.DianeCutter.com
www.theitinerantartist.blogspot.com
www.DCutter.etsy.com
I tried to contact you by email to let you know you have been moved from the
Wait List to the regular participants. The email bounced so please contact me
via my email or at coordinator46@barenforum.org to reconfirm your participation.
Thanks...
Diane
www.DianeCutter.com
www.theitinerantartist.blogspot.com
www.DCutter.etsy.com
Message 7
From: "DePry Clan"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:09:51 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42058] Re: Moku hanga exchange
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Wow,
I wish to give you a thirty second golf clap for that long winded/thinking out loud diatribe. You just insulted everyone and yourself. Why such an unconstructive motion towards your fellow printmakers?
Sincerly yours,
Double D
I wish to give you a thirty second golf clap for that long winded/thinking out loud diatribe. You just insulted everyone and yourself. Why such an unconstructive motion towards your fellow printmakers?
Sincerly yours,
Double D
Message 8
From: Raymond Hudson
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:29:07 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42059] Re: Moku hanga exchange
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I love the idea of a moku hanga exchange although I've only tried it once--at the St. Louis get-together - (and never again!, say I, at the moment). I'm lucky to do one exchange every two years but I love looking at the gallery of completed exchanges and seeing various styles, with or without themes, with or without specific techniques. I love the variety and exactitude of postings, the sharing of work, the strong opinions, the struggles and joys.
And who knows, some day a moku hanga exchange might just spur me to try it again.
In the meantime, I'll sift through all the possible exchanges as they are discussed and posted-- and now and then, I'll bite.
Best to all,
Ray
>
And who knows, some day a moku hanga exchange might just spur me to try it again.
In the meantime, I'll sift through all the possible exchanges as they are discussed and posted-- and now and then, I'll bite.
Best to all,
Ray
>
Message 9
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:31:08 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42060] Re: Moku Hanga Exchange
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Of course I can't put myself in anyone else's head, but I think the
objection might have been to always tying up a specific season -- like a
Winter/Holiday print -- with one technique. It would preclude someone from
participating in the season if s/he didn't want to do moku hanga.
One day I hope to try honest-to-goodness real moku hanga, but not this day.
;-]
Ellen
>I agree with Maria. I don't see any difference between having a Moku Hanga
>exchange and having a 3 color reduction exchange. I don't happen to do
>reduction prints, so I just opted out. Themes are not personal.
>
> --
> AEleen Frisch, Ph.D.
> aefrisch@lorentzian.com
>
> Exponential Consulting
> 340 Quinnipiac St. Bldg. 40
> Wallingford, CT 06492 USA
> 203-284-2501
>
objection might have been to always tying up a specific season -- like a
Winter/Holiday print -- with one technique. It would preclude someone from
participating in the season if s/he didn't want to do moku hanga.
One day I hope to try honest-to-goodness real moku hanga, but not this day.
;-]
Ellen
>I agree with Maria. I don't see any difference between having a Moku Hanga
>exchange and having a 3 color reduction exchange. I don't happen to do
>reduction prints, so I just opted out. Themes are not personal.
>
> --
> AEleen Frisch, Ph.D.
> aefrisch@lorentzian.com
>
> Exponential Consulting
> 340 Quinnipiac St. Bldg. 40
> Wallingford, CT 06492 USA
> 203-284-2501
>
Message 10
From: Gayle Wohlken
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 02:32:09 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42061] Re: Digested ::: Re: Moku hanga exchange
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Hey, everyone. Agree to disagree, but let's all at least be courteous. Strong feelings, aside, we aren't that kind of place here on the Forum.
~Gayle Wohlken
Baren Moderator
~Gayle Wohlken
Baren Moderator
Message 11
From: mary caulfield
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 02:35:20 GMT
Subject: [Baren 42062] Re: Digested ::: Re: Moku hanga exchange
Send Message: To this poster
We could leave it to a vote!