Today's postings

  1. [Baren 34081] Re: Redampening Paper, Blogs (Annie Bissett)
  2. [Baren 34082] Re: Redampening Paper, Blogs (L Cass)
  3. [Baren 34083] RE: Blogs ("Maria Arango")
  4. [Baren 34084] Re: Blogs (L Cass)
  5. [Baren 34085] Re: Blogs ("Ellen Shipley")
  6. [Baren 34086] Re: Blogs (David Harrison)
  7. [Baren 34087] Re: Blogs (Leigh Beatty)
  8. [Baren 34088] Re: Blogs ("Maria Arango")
  9. [Baren 34089] Re: Blogs (Marissa)
  10. [Baren 34090] Re: Blogs (Ragtaghorde #
  11. [Baren 34091] Re: Blogs & some Baren news (Julio.Rodriguez #
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Message 1
From: Annie Bissett
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:45:53 -0400
Subject: [Baren 34081] Re: Redampening Paper, Blogs
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Welcome back from 3 months in Europe, Louise! Can't wait to see the
work that emerges in the aftermath.

I'm considering doing a reduction hanga print in the near future, so
I'll probably be asking for advice about that soon, but you had
wondered about re-dampening paper for additional colors. I do it all
the time and have never had bleeding problems. Don't know if type of
pigment matters; I use pigment dispersions from Guerra Paint &
Pigment in NY. Anyway, when I re-moisten dried prints I wet them the
same way I do when the paper is virgin: I stack the paper, applying
water with a brush to the unprinted side of every other (or even
every third) sheet. Then I wrap the stack in plastic and leave
overnight. If I'm in a hurry I weight the stack to help the water
move through the pile faster.

I've never used blotting paper in a stack or interleafing. I wonder
if the blotter paper has too much "suction" action and pulls the
pigment out of the nearby prints?

Wanda, I hear your lament about all the action moving to the blogs. I
put a lot of energy into my blog and what I like about it is that
it's so easy to post pictures. It mut be a nightmare on dial-up,
though. It's occurred to me that I could double-post some of the
things I write about on my blog, but then I've been afraid that would
seem a little spammy, posting the same thing all over the place. What
do you all think? I love the Baren Forum and want to see it thrive.

Annie B
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Message 2
From: L Cass
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:34:58 -0400
Subject: [Baren 34082] Re: Redampening Paper, Blogs
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Thanks for your input, Annie - I imagine it must be the blotting
paper sucking some colour out of the print -I'm using
my Winsor& Newton artists' quality watercolours as they're so
strongly pigmented and they're on hand) out of the print - I use
it because it's so easy to dampen and lies flat - do you use
(printed) newspaper (as Wanda did at her demo last
summer) or fresh newsprint - I find the newsprint buckles so when
damp that I worry about the good japanese
printing papers staying flat.

While on the subject of hanga, has anyone used archival wheat starch
powder (apparently sold for bookbinding use??)
in lieu of rice paste?
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Message 3
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:15:43 -0700
Subject: [Baren 34083] RE: Blogs
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While I recommend that every artist get and maintain a website or blog, the
activity at any artist's site or blog is nowhere near the 400 people that
are "listening" when something is posted to a forum.
Look at the comments on any of the artists' blogs that post their blog to
Baren, most of them no comments at all or comments from the same people who
frequent that blog.

A forum is a huge convention room where all the members meet and can speak
and talk to each other: all 400 of "each others". A blog is a room in the
convention hotel where people can visit one person and have a conversation
with one person. That person gets the illusion that they are getting more
attention, but they are really getting a visit from very few members, while
the bulk of the membership sits in the huge convention room. If an artist
wants to announce something like an exhibit or their latest image, a post on
the forum will reach around 400 people, a post on a blog will get maybe
10-20 of those members to click on the blog.

With sometimes 6-10 blog-spaces being posted daily in this forum only, it is
incredible inefficient and impossible for me to go to each of the little
rooms and see what's going on with that person. Then comment if I have the
time, then come back to see what others have said. Too much time dedicated
to one little room. I'd rather hang out in the big room and see what
everyone's doing collectively.
My own M.O. is to scan over the blogs, if I see something I might be
interested in I keep the blog manager post in my email box waiting to have a
few minutes to go to the blog...then next day, when I haven't gotten around
to clicking on any blog and a new blog manager post is posted, I delete the
old one. If someone posts to the forum, any of the 12+ forums that I belong
to, I read the email because it only takes a second or two and it's "in my

The web phenomenon of modern times is of/for/by the I, as in Individual.
Everyone can now blog and post video and photos and send news and have their
own little corner on the web and it's all a wonderful thing but the I has
killed the WE, or the individuality has killed the collective. The result,
like when people quit going to the town hall for punch and cookies and
started hanging out in their own front porch, is that people don't talk so
much to each other anymore. Later the TV killed the porch conversations and
people didn't interact anymore at all. Neighbors now don't know each other.
Now we send an email across town rather than picking up the phone and, for
the most part, it suits me just fine.

But we've gone about this over and over again. It's the way of the e-modern
i-world and, in a sense, what made Baren a wonderful interactive e-community
has evolved with the i-times and the times ate it.


Maria Arango
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Message 4
From: L Cass
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:32:37 -0400
Subject: [Baren 34084] Re: Blogs
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I will take a few more precious minutes of working time to agree with
you - it takes too long to personally
visit blogs much as one would like to see what people are doing - I
must be v. disorganized as I can barely
squeeze viewing, sending and answering emails into my days - I
shudder to think of how much more time it
must take to prepare and add daily to one's blog! How does everyone
manage to do it?? and without being
offensive has anyone really thought about the purpose of a blog? - in
a working artist's life does it help bring
in more sales (as a web site can do)....I guess one can only view it
as another kind of creative effort and fun
to produce............

(At least a few woodcutters still communicate on the main forum)

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Message 5
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 09:50:29 -0700
Subject: [Baren 34085] Re: Blogs
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That makes sense on the face of it. But in my experience -- and I'm one of
the visitors to blogs each day -- is that 2 or 3 post a day. On good days
maybe 6; sometimes none or one. So it's not a great investment of time.

As a comparison, it actually took me longer to read your post than to visit
the 4 blogs who posted most recently. Really, it takes but a click-thru and
a glance.

Your point is well taken tho that if we want to get a particular event out
to our fellow printmakers, the Baren list is the place to put it. 8-]


print blog:
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Message 6
From: David Harrison
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:22:07 +0100
Subject: [Baren 34086] Re: Blogs
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Also, blogs can be read in far more flexible ways than just 'clicking and
visiting'. One of their main advantages is the feed -- you can use any feed
aggregator (I use the customizable Google homepage or my e-mail software, but
dozens of other sites and software programs do the same) to hoover up the
latest from any number of favourite blogs and present you with a composite
news page.

This way all the blog news comes to me, fresh as the morning coffee, laid out
just as I like it, without ever having to visit a page in person. It's one of
the pleasures of the day.

So I'd suggest that if blogs seem like a waste of time because it takes too
long to visit them all, you're doing it wrong. Set it up so they come to you :-)


David H
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Message 7
From: Leigh Beatty
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:31:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 34087] Re: Blogs
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I don't say a whole lot here but I read almost everything. Including the blogs. I love the blogs. Do I read through them all? No, but when I go to check whose site has been updated sometimes I get a little thrill. The forum has a lot to offer too and solves a lot of printing issues and a wonderful place to ask a question and see what folks are up to but the blogs offer a day to day battle and the solutions that go with it. I am self taught or perhaps I should say "forum/blog taught". Some of the blog day-to-day stuff may be old hat to all you veterans but it is as close to taking a class as I can mange right now. I learn from the forum but I think I learn more from the blogs. You're right, the forum is the convention hall but at least for me, the blogs are like going to someone's studio. Does the time and effort of the artist pay off by keeping up a blog? Well, I don't know but I certainly learn from them. So for all you printmaking bloggers, please
don't stop. Perhaps I am one of the few but I am reading. Not commenting but reading and appreciating for sure!! Leigh
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Message 8
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:32:13 -0700
Subject: [Baren 34088] Re: Blogs
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> This way all the blog news comes to me, fresh as the morning
> coffee, laid out
> just as I like it, without ever having to visit a page in
> person. It's one of
> the pleasures of the day.

Yes, I use an RSS feeder as well. The "wasting time" factor isn't as big a
deal as the "ruining the forum experience" factor; at least to some of us
who have helped build, enjoyed and interacted in the Barenforum long before
this never-ending lull we are experiencing.

In fact, we all sit in comfort having our morning coffee and reading our
chosen news. Is that a conversation? In the context of the Baren forum, from
a community point of view, we are simply not what we once were. Maybe, as I
suggested, it's just the new way of the i-web.


Maria Arango
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Message 9
From: Marissa
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:46:50 -0400
Subject: [Baren 34089] Re: Blogs
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Maria said;

"has anyone really thought about the purpose of a blog? - in
a working artist's life does it help bring
in more sales (as a web site can do)..."

Yes I have thought of it and have noticed a significant increase in sales
when I update my blog often and promote it to draw in new readers.

My sales had been fairly stagnant for a couple of months and then I got
serious about my blog writing again and they doubled in a month. That was
the only major change.

Right now I don't have time to blog more than once or twice a week if I am
lucky and my sales have reflected that, but that is okay because I don't
really have the time to be bombarded with orders right now. My new baby is
much more important.


~marissa lee
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Message 10
From: Ragtaghorde #
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:56:50 EDT
Subject: [Baren 34090] Re: Blogs
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> In fact, we all sit in comfort having our morning coffee and reading our
> chosen news. Is that a conversation? In the context of the Baren forum, from
> a community point of view, we are simply not what we once were. Maybe, as I
> suggested, it's just the new way of the i-web.
> Maria

I am with Leigh on this one. I love the blogs. I like the social aspect to
them. I like the way most people combine personal and creative information.
I enjoy Marissa's thoughts about carving *and* the countdown to blee's
arrival. I loved reading about Andy English finding an original Rembrandt etching
and his latest design project. The only reason *I* don't blog is my computer is
too old and I am too incompetent to figure out how to overcome an
incompatability problem with the blogspots.

I was not around in the early days of the forum. But I *was* around when
there was the recent discussion about keeping the forum strictly to actual
printmaking content and saving anything personal for the After Five list. For me
this diminished the pleasure I take in the forum. One of the best, most useful,
and most creative lists I belong to is a list devoted to operant conditioning
and the training of animals. The list ranges off topic frequently, but
always loops back to the basic idea, and the amount of knowledge and information
about *all* topics in the list community is staggering.

I also have become very fond of the printmaking forum on which
has its bloggish elements.

I think the reason why open studios, art fairs, and now blogs increase sales
is people want a sense of connection with the artist, a sense that an
individual hand created the work. If I am going to buy a woodcut and there are 2 of
equal appeal for me and I can only afford one I suspect I am not the only one
who will pick the one created by the artist who is a real person to me...


Annie Fitt
& the Ragtag Horde ~ Whippets of Mass Destruction!
Wake, Virginia
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Message 11
From: Julio.Rodriguez #
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:55:16 -0500
Subject: [Baren 34091] Re: Blogs & some Baren news
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I been away for most of August and when I got back home I had to catch up
on the current print exchanges so I have not been posting much lately.
Since I was the one that approached Dave Bull about putting up the blog
service on Baren let me clarify a few points.

The Baren blog and it's feeder service capturing the individual blog
updates was not intended to replace the forum or to take away from the
list traffic. With blogging becoming so popular we thought we could create
one central Baren blog where our members could put personal updates and
upload photos and videos.....(the old Baren "Show & Tell" page which it
meant to replace was hard to use and limited website support to our
website did not make for fast updates). It was not intended to take away
from the community feeling we have all learned to love over the years. I
often find myself talking about Baren and my fellow members as an extended
family as over the years I have met so many of you and I have come to call
you good friends. The idea was to have one common blog with authorship
access by all Baren members so that we all could easily update Baren with
news, photos, etc.......currently I have over 50 members in the authorship
list who at some point in the past two years have asked to blog but it
seems to be a big failure as we are averaging maybe 1-2 blogs per month.
It is not been used, perhaps it's a problem remembering the access
password ?

The second service we added was to allow the feed from members personal
blogs to be posted to the Baren list announcing updates. You have to be a
Baren member for your blog to be on the feeder list and although it's true
some of the blogs are not entirely printmaking related the 'subject' line
in the Baren blog-manager post should give you a good idea as to what the
contents is only a service we thought to provide the
membership....and like any other Baren related post you can opt to delete
it or just browse the blogs you like.

I been around long enough to know that the list sometimes goes into
'sleepy' mode at least once a year.....people are away, busy, going back
to school, personal issues...but normally all it takes it's some new ideas
or a provocative post and the list comes alive again......and so it goes.

As we end September 2007 and get closer to our 10th anniversary online
(34,000+ posts !) let me say that there has been recent talk to hire a
professional to revamp the entire Baren website into a more current &
dynamic format. The information we have captured there will serve as an
invaluable teaching tool for future printmakers. David Harrison our most
recent council addition is working hard on a new stylish version of
'Barensuji' the Baren newsletter (he needs authors !!!). The Baren council
is also looking for creative ways to use our growing profits from our most
popular service the BarenMall (we are a government listed not-for-profit
organization) which may include among other things finding a location and
sponsoring the next Baren Summit in 2008. For all of this and to keep
Baren moving forward we need many council
ideas...please, step up ! Let's hear what you want your Baren community to

thanks....Julio Rodriguez