Today's postings

  1. [Baren 26716] RE: Baren Digest (old) V29 #2905 ("marilynn smih")
  2. [Baren 26717] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline..... (Sharri LaPierre)
  3. [Baren 26718] Birdsall's paintings (Ray Hudson)
  4. [Baren 26719] PAINTINGS INTO PRINTS (FurryPressII # aol.com)
  5. [Baren 26720] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline..... (keri marion)
  6. [Baren 26721] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadli... (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
  7. [Baren 26722] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline..... ("Ramsey Household")
  8. [Baren 26723] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? ("Horacio Oliveira Soares Neto")
  9. [Baren 26724] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
  10. [Baren 26725] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline..... (Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com)
  11. [Baren 26726] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadli... (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
  12. [Baren 26727] Maria's advice (Bette Norcross Wappner)
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Message 1
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:12:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26716] RE: Baren Digest (old) V29 #2905
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Julio you are so right in saying there are many facets to being in the arts.
I created the design on my latest plate and i think the carving is nice, but
now for the printing. I am truly wondering if all those intricate details
and fine lines will print well. Most certainly there are some who just have
the right touch for this and the one you mentioned certainly does. Right
now I feel like shipping my plate off to someone who really knows how to put
on the sumi and print it. I changed my mind after beginning this image to
make it black and white because it is so delicate and intricate. I am on
the last square inch of carving and than it will be time to proof. I have
to say that working on this myrtle wood has changed me and I doubt linoleum
will ever have much of an attraction any more. There is something about
getting a clean cut with a skew in a piece of beautiful wood that is almost
magic. Yes I am loving my myrtle wood, it almost never splinters and the
lines are so nice and clean, yes!!!!!
If one chooses to spend hours copying designs created by others and gives
proper credit to the designing artist than go for it. It just seems
interesting to see prints made into paintings, but it seems to work for this
person, they are selling.
May the new year bring many crowing printmakers! I have found a rooster,
hope my card is extra special, since it will come to you all half way
through the new year.
Marilynn
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Message 2
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:59:29 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26717] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline.....
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Julio,
You didn't read my sentence which said these are PAINTINGS OF PRINTS?
Why would anyone want to do a painting of a print and went on to say
the part about doing your own composition. Of course, what Dave does
is completely different - not in the same category in any respect. He
is doing something historically correct and, in my opinion, quite
necessary. Someone doing paintings of prints is not doing anything
artistic in my book. Again, only my opinion. With paintings, ONLY the
artists hands are in the pot - or at least, those are the only hands
intended to be in the pot until we regress to historical times when
painters all had apprentices who helped, but even then, it was the
painters own composition which was being rendered. Prints (etchings
usually) were made of the painting sometimes for more wide distribution
of the image - but, all that is also a different ball game. I stand by
my comment: PAINTINGS of prints? I don't understand the point of that
- but then, I was assuming they were literal. Changing the palette a
smidgon and substituting a mountain doesn't cut it for me, it still
amounts to plagiarism - as for being sold and the prices - PT Barnum
said it best.


Sharri
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Message 3
From: Ray Hudson
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:10:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 26718] Birdsall's paintings
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Byron Birdsall is a watercolorist and I think that's what these "Fuji"
paintings
probably are. He became very well known in Alaska for his watercolors
of Russian Orthodox "icons" although not an Orthodox person himself, I
think.
Looks like he has a new source of inspiration.
Ray Hudson
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Message 4
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:54:51 EST
Subject: [Baren 26719] PAINTINGS INTO PRINTS
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By adding Mt Rainier and putting it into the context of the Japanese prints
is an original concept to me and quite different from just reproducing a
print into a painting. I rather like this group of paintings were I would not
like a painting of just the mountain. On the other hand reproductively in
print making has a long history and I rather enjoy it as a printmaking concept.

There is a cult of originality in modern art that is less important or even
not existent in many other times in art history. Remember some things were
not made as art that we today consider art today.

john center
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Message 5
From: keri marion
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:11:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 26720] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline.....
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being primarily a painter, i thought i might just jump
in.

> Someone doing paintings of prints is not doing
anything artistic in my book.

i'll completely dusagree with this, firmly and even a
bit loudly. In fact, i'd say that paintings of prints
COULD BE a very interesting idea. I actually thought
that because this artist used prints as a reference so
openly, as to NOT plagiarize is perfectly acceptable.

i thought that this particular set of paintings were
kind of cool; it roots itself in history, swaps
cultural icons and is painted sensitively.

i didn't bother to look up sizes of the work, but it
doesn't really matter. they're fun and more
interesting than most subject matter i see - a big
step up from around here.

> With paintings, ONLY the artists hands are in the
pot - or at least, those are the only hands intended
to be in the pot until we regress to historical times
when painters all had apprentices who helped, but even
then, it was the painters own composition which was
being rendered.

i'm not so sure what this matters... making art
solely, or with help shouldn't make a difference
regarding artistic or conceptual quality. are you
suggesting that art is only art if it's made by one
person, alone?

> PT Barnum said it best.

what did he say?

thanks,
k
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Message 6
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:53:48 EST
Subject: [Baren 26721] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadli...
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Didn't P.T. Barnum say "You pays your money and you takes your choice?" or
was that me?
Carol
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Message 7
From: "Ramsey Household"
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26722] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline.....
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P.T. Barnum said, "There's a Sucker born every minute". I'm not sure how
that applies to this subject.

Carolyn
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Message 8
From: "Horacio Oliveira Soares Neto"
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:14:23 -0200
Subject: [Baren 26723] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ?
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Just to warm the debate I invite you to see the Van Gogh paintings of
Japanese prints (“bridge in the rain” and “flowering plum tree” after
Horoshige and ”Oiran” after Kosai Eisen) in:
http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/artists/vincent_van_gogh/index_van_gogh.html
Horacio from Rio / Brazil
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Message 9
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:26:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26724] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ?
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Didn't he also say: "You are what you eat"?

After doing a few festivals I've grown to tolerate much more than I used to.
I really think it has made me a better person ;-) In any case, really, who
gives a rat's behind what anyone else is doing (new motto), yo sigo.
In an art world where a shark suspended in formaldehyde just sold again for
over 23 million...well, who are we mere mortals to judge, ey?

Just FYI and for a chuckle, here are a few things passing as original
works..."out there" in the cold cruel world:

-Stock photography downloaded from the web and printed on average household
variety ink jet printer, sold as "original photographs by annonymous
photographers"

-The same painting of the same subject...because "it sells so well", called
"original oil painting on canvas"

-Ink jet prints of paintings, of course called "original prints" and
appropriately signed and numbered. I overhear many artists say that if a
"limited edition" sells very well, they start another! :-o

-Pottery, little sculptures, trinkets of every kind and shape obviously cast
from molds and obviously made in some assembly line in Anycountry,
appropriately called "original craft, hand made by the artist" (think about
it, it's all true)

-Reproductions of old masters paintings mass-produced in paint-shops in
China by people who constantly email me asking me if I want to distribute
for them, called "original master paintings by renowned artists" (do you
know you can buy a thousand of these absolutely breathtaking things for
little over 2K? Shipped?)

-Tie-dye t-shirts, "original garment paintings"

-Hot-dog-like sausages, "original genuine pork and beef creations" (I'm not
kidding)

In addition to the rat's behind thing, I have another new motto in the
studio: "use it or lose it". Wow, did I make a pile of garbage upon adopting
such wise philosophy! And now my studio is clean and inviting again.

Happy New Year everyone! ...and THAT is an original statement by...
Maria
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Message 10
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:58:35 -0600
Subject: [Baren 26725] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadline.....
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Keri/Sharri/Carol.......I guess the question is...what did P.T. Barnum
'really' said ?

http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

PM-REF
I think many early japanese prints were copies of japanese paintings.
Makes sense to make them available to the public cheaply. Now we have the
reverse,
prints made into paintings...so we can sell them at higher prices ?

thanks.....Julio
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Message 11
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:34:56 EST
Subject: [Baren 26726] Re: prints ? paintings ? original work ? - Roosters deadli...
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Second guess --P.T. Barnum:
" There's a sucker born every minute."
I'll stick with that
Carol
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Message 12
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:35:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 26727] Maria's advice
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Maria,
Lots of great chuckles in what's hot on the internet!
As for your advice...

"In addition to the rat's behind thing, I have another new motto in the
studio: "use it or lose it". Wow, did I make a pile of garbage upon
adopting
such wise philosophy! And now my studio is clean and inviting again."

....I'm taking it up! I have a huge trash can that's getting filled as
we speak.

oh the ecstasy
of being freed
from greed
to take heed
for print 23!

bette :)