Today's postings

  1. [Baren 25745] matte glossy surface (Mike Lyon)
  2. [Baren 25746] Carol's Message (GWohlken)
  3. [Baren 25747] Re: stone prints (Charles Morgan)
  4. [Baren 25748] Re: stone prints ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
  5. [Baren 25749] Re: stone prints (Charles Morgan)
  6. [Baren 25750] Re: stone prints ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
  7. [Baren 25751] lots of news ("April Vollmer")
  8. [Baren 25752] Re: stone prints (Charles Morgan)
  9. [Baren 25753] Re: stone prints ("Mary Ann Brooks-Mueller")
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Message 1
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:09:13 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25745] matte glossy surface
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The darkest areas of one of my recent woodcuts has a surface sheen (likely
from the glue in the neri-zumi (made from old crushed sticks of sumi) I
used to make the black) which is unappealing to me -- I much prefer the
dense flat surface of the rest of the print. The print is 30 x 21 inches,
prussian blue dry pigment, rice starch paste, and neri-zumi on Iwano
Ichibei paper. Do you have any experience with 'matte'ing bare paper
surfaces? Something archival I might spray onto the paper surface in order
to achieve a uniform and matte surface without detracting from the paper or



Mike Lyon
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Message 2
From: GWohlken
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:13:10 -0400
Subject: [Baren 25746] Carol's Message
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For people receiving the html version of the digest, you were not able
to see Carol Lyon's message. If you happened to toss the "old digest"
before reading it, then here is Carol's message again. I apologize to
the people who subscribe to the regular version and who have already
seen this. I'm hoping this will appear intact in the next digest so
everyone gets a chance to see it.

"The Left- handed image Sarah asked about is printed on 100%
polyester, a pattern tracing material.
I use water-based inks and watercolor.

I used to print on dryer sheets, but then the manufacturers changed the
formula and also started folding them into 3" segments. In my search
for the right
product when I travelled all over I would head for the soap aisle
because the
sheets were found there.
I found some of the right size but they were so embedded with perfume
they didn't absorb the color well. Finally I was able to contact the
manufacturer and one day I found that he sent me a whole roll, 5 feet
wide, no aroma!
And I have been using it ever since.

It's good for these reasons: you can print on both sides, it is very
and durable. Many throw-aways are no problem.

Buy the rolls in fabric stores.

Try it! Not traditional, but I am an experimentalist and it suits my

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY

~Gayle/Northeast Ohio
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Message 3
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 07:28:28 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25747] Re: stone prints
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Hello Mary Ann,

you wrote:

>Yes, I got your mail, I just was down with a migraine for 3 days. Bad bad

Sorry to hear it ... hope you are feeling much better ...

>I love your mouse and it seesm you have worked out a good system to print
>the littel bugger stones. Good advice for me!

Thanks for your kind comments. I am printing stones that are not too big
and are basically flat on at least one side. But some of my stones are
larger and pretty lumpy. I think I will have to print them by hand.

>Let's keep each other appraised of how it goes.

By all means ... please do keep me informed, and I will certainly reciprocate.

>Hisotrically my prints have
>all been large 3'x4', but I like going wee as we Irish say.

Wow!! I cannot imagine myself printing something that is 3' x 4' ... just
creating an image that size must be a real challenge. Makes me think of
Maria's puzzle print.

>Also, I like the raw shape of the stones rather than neat and tidy sqaured
>up looks.

Yes ... there is something very appealing about the shape and natural
texture of the stones. That was why in the end I decided not to try to
polish the surface.

Yesterday I tried carving some river rocks ... pretty smooth, ovoid rocks
taken from a river bed ... naturally smoothed from being tumbled by the
water. They were much too hard for my engraving tools ... trying to carve
just blunted the tools. In the end, I got a small carborundum grinding
stone for my dremmel tool, and it did incise the lines for the image I
wanted. But I have not yet printed it, so I do not know how well it turned out.

>I have some photos on the member's site for you to compare the simplicity of
>this with my past complexity windstorms.

Can you provide the web site information for the images, please? I only
found one image of yours, and it seems to be a portrait, nude from the
waist ... a very intriguing piece, of which you should be quite proud. I
did not find anything else. I would like to see some of your other work.

Cheers ....... Charles
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Message 4
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 08:12:55 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25748] Re: stone prints
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A while back I entered a collaboration with an artist from nearby. He
carves images of ancient petroglyphs on sandstone slabs. For a while he
was interested in making relief prints from his carvings so I obliged
and we produced about 40 works. I still have some and we sold some but
he did not like handling works on paper so the collaboration ended.

Anyhow, I watched him carve several times at his studio. He uses old
screw drivers of various sizes (cheap ones he buys bulk from the dollar
store). He grinds them to a point with a bench grinder and regrinds as
needed. Some are quite sharp for detail work, some are wide points.
My engraving tools blunted almost immediately. Of course the screw
drivers/converted chisels also blunt but they are cheap and can be
reground on the go. He used a hammer to drive the tools and carve the
stone. I saw him produce a couple of smaller stones (small to him is
around 20 x 30 inches) in a couple of hours.
The stone crumbles along the "lines" proportional to how much care he
drives the hammer. Some crumbling give his works authenticity.

To make prints from them, I used acrylic with retarder and some
texturizing additives. I pre-mixed the colors in Tupperware containers.
When ready, I dampened the stone (otherwise the acrylic just soaks right
in and you waste much paint). Then I used cheap foam rollers, foam
brushes and my hands to cover the stone with acrylic in a manner that
resembled the original texture and color of the stone. I worked very
If I recall, I used sand, thickener, black carbon and several other
creative additives to give the print the look and feel of the original
stone. As for paper, I used anything laying around. Okawara, a thin but
very strong Japanese paper, was great for proofs and also for finished
works. I also used Mexican bark paper, Daphne, Pinto Lotka, and many
others. All papers were dampened, much more so than for woodcuts, as I
needed them to conform to the surface of the stone (flat but not
perfectly so).

I printed with a very soft touch of my bare hands, going over some parts
with a rubber roller if I wanted a stronger impression. I put a stone
through the press and cracked it. Barens tended to rip the paper, even
when a sheet of glassine was used as backing.

Some prints were reworked by my partner, and some he repainted (which I
didn't like so much). The samples show a reworked bird print and two
straight prints. It was fun while it lasted but I'm no stone carver.
Mostly I enjoyed re-creating the texture of the stone but my partner
didn't see the beauty in the simple printed stone and repainted most of
them with acrylic.

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Message 5
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:47:19 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25749] Re: stone prints
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Hey Maria,

Count on you to have tried it already!!!

Thanks so much for the information. I can see that carving in sandstone
would be possible, as it is quite a bit softer than these river rocks. I
will try a hammer and some cast-off sharpened screw drivers nonetheless.

I really liked the images you posted. As I said, I am a big fan of
petroglyphs. And the rough texture of the stone certainly comes through in
the prints.

Were you actually putting sand directly into the ink?

When I thought about printing my stones, I just assumed I would use a
simple roll-up, showing white lines for the image. But your prints show the
carving in black. Were you treating it more as intaglio, rather than as
relief? Did you apply the ink and then wipe it off before printing?

I may try some prints with oil-based inks. You did not mention oil-based
inks ... Is there any reason you did not use them?

Cheers (and thanks again) ....... Charles
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Message 6
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 10:04:25 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25750] Re: stone prints
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I wish I were still doing them! It was soooo much fun to slop all that
acrylic on the stone and work loosely...

Yes, I mixed sand (fine silica sand and also a store-bought acrylic
texturizing sand) right in with the acrylic paints. I did not use ink at
all, just standard acrylic paints. The reason was twofold, one, I did
not know what the heck I was doing but I knew these would eat up a lot
of pigment so I tried the cheapest stuff I had in the studio. Good ol'

Cleanup was the main reason I did not want to use oil. As long as I
worked fast, every 3-4 prints I would take the stone outside and hose it
to remove any pigment (incidentally, that's how I found out that a
thoroughly saturated stone gives off better prints). Clean stones
without studio mess!
Any acrylic residue I cleaned off with a brush and acrylic remover
Oil will give you much longer working time; should be fun. I had to work
very quickly with acrylics, even with the added retarder.

I printed all of them in relief, but I tried both light and dark papers.
So I would print light sandy colored acrylics on a dark paper or a
pre-painted paper (also with acrylic); or I would print dark inks on the
lighter papers. I kind of got into pre-painting the papers in dark reds
and umbers and then printing white/sand mixes on the dark paper.
Scrumptious! All the red paper prints were quite striking. I added
streaks of contrasting colors with a stiff plastic brush, sometimes I
would literally splash acrylic on the surface of the stone to achieve a
spatter look (then I wiped the carved areas prior to printing).
Best results on Mexican bark paper because of its texture, they really
looked like sandstone replicas.

Have fun!
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Message 7
From: "April Vollmer"
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 13:16:45 -0400
Subject: [Baren 25751] lots of news
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I just returned home to New York from a full schedule of woodblock teaching
this summer. I taught at Frogman's Print and Paper in Vermillion South
Dakota. It is a serious printmaking program that brings printmakers from
across the country for an intense week of work. (and bowling)

Then I went to Santa Fe to work with Makingartsafely for another week. This
program was a little gentler, (no bowling) and was held at the beautiful
campus of the American Indian Art Institute. I had great students there,
including a number of teachers. We all enjoyed the landscape and all the
galleries and museums. I visited our own Lezle William's gallery "New Mexico
Printmakers" and saw some nice prints there.

Then, as if that wasn't enough, I went up to the Women's Studio Workshop to
teach a four day workshop in Rosendale, NY. Another beautiful location, the
Workshop is the former store for people working at the lime kilns. Much of
the cement that built New York City was made here. Now it is quiet, except
for the noise of artists making prints.

This fall I'll teach yet another workshop at the Lower East Side Printshop.
Links to all these places are on my website.

Now I am preparing for my trip to Japan. Yes, I am finally going to the land
of the Daves! I will visit the Nagasawa Art Park Program, and then spend a
couple of weeks traveling. I will be in Japan for a total of five weeks.
Everyone supposes I learned moku hanga in Japan, but in fact, this will be
my first trip.

On another note, I must report the sad news that the man who taught me the
most about moku hanga, Bill Paden, died last week at his home here in NY. He
was generous, opinionated, and totally dedicated to his art. I will miss

cut, print!

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Message 8
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:03:07 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25752] Re: stone prints
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Thanks again, Maria. This was really helpful. I see what you mean now about
pre-painting the paper. I was wondering about the black edges on some of
the prints.

And for sure those earth tones would give lovely results ....

Now I'm itching to try some more.

Cheers ..... Charles
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Message 9
From: "Mary Ann Brooks-Mueller"
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 18:24:16 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25753] Re: stone prints
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Hi Maria,
Thanks for the stone prints! I have't tried sandstone, but it's a go now.
ALso, thanks for your process info, that's really helpful although very
different from printing pipestone!
Mary Ann