Today's postings
- [Baren 25210] Behind with postings ("Harry French")
- [Baren 25211] Re: Behind with postings (Bette Norcross Wappner)
- [Baren 25212] Experience with double-roller press? (David Bull)
- [Baren 25213] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (jack reisland)
- [Baren 25214] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (Myron Turner)
- [Baren 25215] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (Mike Lyon)
Message 1
From: "Harry French"
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 15:32:53 +0100
Subject: [Baren 25210] Behind with postings
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Greetings Bareners,
I am a little behind with reading the postings.The Lincoln artists, including one Barener, have been welcoming and organising workshops for 3,500 young people in our Cathedral as part of a 10 day Church Schools' Festival. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/h.french1/CATHEDRAL.htm
*I thought,somehow, that Betty would be our mentor/co-ordinator for the 21st Exchange. My design (not print) is complete and could get away with some clever medieval symbols, but the influence of B'oki now is making me think of Haiku.
Many thanks Betty for taking on this enormous task.
**Bareners recent print updates and exhibitions are really diverse and stunning..congratulations to you all.
I'm sure that there is room for looking at the latest update from a primitive like myself www.harryfrenchartworks.co.uk
The site is still utilitarian, but it serves its purpose to keep folks in contact with my work.
Cheers
Harry......rather frayed at the moment
Lincoln
UK
I am a little behind with reading the postings.The Lincoln artists, including one Barener, have been welcoming and organising workshops for 3,500 young people in our Cathedral as part of a 10 day Church Schools' Festival. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/h.french1/CATHEDRAL.htm
*I thought,somehow, that Betty would be our mentor/co-ordinator for the 21st Exchange. My design (not print) is complete and could get away with some clever medieval symbols, but the influence of B'oki now is making me think of Haiku.
Many thanks Betty for taking on this enormous task.
**Bareners recent print updates and exhibitions are really diverse and stunning..congratulations to you all.
I'm sure that there is room for looking at the latest update from a primitive like myself www.harryfrenchartworks.co.uk
The site is still utilitarian, but it serves its purpose to keep folks in contact with my work.
Cheers
Harry......rather frayed at the moment
Lincoln
UK
Message 2
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 16:46:12 -0400
Subject: [Baren 25211] Re: Behind with postings
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Oh Harry, what a glorious occasion for children to create woodblock
prints in your Lincoln Cathedral! That was so great of you to
contribute the woodblocks and to be a mentor for woodblock printers 'to
be'. I enjoyed viewing the photos you shared and seeing the Lincoln
Cathedral again warms my heart - what a beautiful work of art it is.
So glad you're participating in the Surimono Exchange. I have heard
word from two that are sending me their prints ALREADY! I love to brag
about the early-birds. Looking forward to yours and everyone's prints.
Haiku On!
Kengin - (happy haiku writing!)
bette.
for Harry...
cathedral tableaux
the echos of cherubs
carving history
b'oki.
prints in your Lincoln Cathedral! That was so great of you to
contribute the woodblocks and to be a mentor for woodblock printers 'to
be'. I enjoyed viewing the photos you shared and seeing the Lincoln
Cathedral again warms my heart - what a beautiful work of art it is.
So glad you're participating in the Surimono Exchange. I have heard
word from two that are sending me their prints ALREADY! I love to brag
about the early-birds. Looking forward to yours and everyone's prints.
Haiku On!
Kengin - (happy haiku writing!)
bette.
for Harry...
cathedral tableaux
the echos of cherubs
carving history
b'oki.
Message 3
From: David Bull
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:21:18 +0900
Subject: [Baren 25212] Experience with double-roller press?
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Some of you might remember that I've been hunting for a press-type tool
to use for putting a smooth 'calendar' on the surface of some of my
printing paper before use.
This morning I visited a supply company and had a chance to play (for a
few minutes only) with this 'press':
http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-091.JPG
It's very solidly made, and the two rollers seem very strong and
stable. It's about 40cm wide, more than enough for the o-ban paper I
use.
Trouble is, when we tried testing it by feeding in some of my sheets, I
found that once the paper was about half-way through, it started to
buckle up in front of the rollers, and there was no way to stop it from
becoming creased as it went through. We adjusted rollers up and down,
etc. but just weren't able to get a smooth feed.
My question to [Baren] members with press experiences is:
- is this buckling just from my inexperience with how to 'set' this
thing properly? Do you think it would be possible to get a smooth sheet
from this kind of set-up? Would damp paper feed better?
- would I get better results if I fed the paper through together with
some kind of base plate?
- this 'demo' model had a slightly tarnished/rusty top roller, and this
left marks on the paper. If it had been 'clean' would the results
perhaps have been different?
I'm sure that with a 'real' press:
http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-011.jpg
... it would of course be possible to do this, but I _really_ want to
avoid having such a beast in my workshop if I can possibly help it.
The first few inches of the sheet that pass through on these tests -
before the creasing starts - are _wonderfully_ flat and smooth, and I
would very much like to try printing on some paper like that. Those of
you who know the Meiji-era kuchi-e prints know what I mean - paper
incredibly thin and smooth, yet with a good 'body' to take up the
pigment.
The people at the company weren't interested in letting me try this
thing out for more than a few minutes (they don't actually have a
'store'; they do catalogue orders only), so I have to take a gamble if
I decide to order one (it's just over $900. ... welcome to Japan!) ...
Advice?
Dave
to use for putting a smooth 'calendar' on the surface of some of my
printing paper before use.
This morning I visited a supply company and had a chance to play (for a
few minutes only) with this 'press':
http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-091.JPG
It's very solidly made, and the two rollers seem very strong and
stable. It's about 40cm wide, more than enough for the o-ban paper I
use.
Trouble is, when we tried testing it by feeding in some of my sheets, I
found that once the paper was about half-way through, it started to
buckle up in front of the rollers, and there was no way to stop it from
becoming creased as it went through. We adjusted rollers up and down,
etc. but just weren't able to get a smooth feed.
My question to [Baren] members with press experiences is:
- is this buckling just from my inexperience with how to 'set' this
thing properly? Do you think it would be possible to get a smooth sheet
from this kind of set-up? Would damp paper feed better?
- would I get better results if I fed the paper through together with
some kind of base plate?
- this 'demo' model had a slightly tarnished/rusty top roller, and this
left marks on the paper. If it had been 'clean' would the results
perhaps have been different?
I'm sure that with a 'real' press:
http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-011.jpg
... it would of course be possible to do this, but I _really_ want to
avoid having such a beast in my workshop if I can possibly help it.
The first few inches of the sheet that pass through on these tests -
before the creasing starts - are _wonderfully_ flat and smooth, and I
would very much like to try printing on some paper like that. Those of
you who know the Meiji-era kuchi-e prints know what I mean - paper
incredibly thin and smooth, yet with a good 'body' to take up the
pigment.
The people at the company weren't interested in letting me try this
thing out for more than a few minutes (they don't actually have a
'store'; they do catalogue orders only), so I have to take a gamble if
I decide to order one (it's just over $900. ... welcome to Japan!) ...
Advice?
Dave
Message 4
From: jack reisland
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2004 23:17:24 -1000
Subject: [Baren 25213] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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Hi Dave,
something you might consider... I once took apart an old busted copy
machine, and it had in it (along with a bunch of other interesting
parts) a pair of highly polished steel rollers mounted in an armature so
that the gap between them could be adjusted. I believe these rollers
flatten the fused toner on the paper fed through the copy machine. One
of these rollers was fitted with a drive sprocket. The machine also
contained drive chain, and a drive motor. If you were able to locate a
busted machine with a wide enough capacity, you might be able to rig up
a power feed paper flattener!
Oh, and to answer one of your questions, feeding the sheet through
damp instead of dry should make it feed more smoothly, but the wrinkling
that you described may also mean that the rollers that you tried were
slightly crowned. It sounds like it is squeezing, and therefore
stretching, the middle of the sheet more than the edges.
Jack Reisland
something you might consider... I once took apart an old busted copy
machine, and it had in it (along with a bunch of other interesting
parts) a pair of highly polished steel rollers mounted in an armature so
that the gap between them could be adjusted. I believe these rollers
flatten the fused toner on the paper fed through the copy machine. One
of these rollers was fitted with a drive sprocket. The machine also
contained drive chain, and a drive motor. If you were able to locate a
busted machine with a wide enough capacity, you might be able to rig up
a power feed paper flattener!
Oh, and to answer one of your questions, feeding the sheet through
damp instead of dry should make it feed more smoothly, but the wrinkling
that you described may also mean that the rollers that you tried were
slightly crowned. It sounds like it is squeezing, and therefore
stretching, the middle of the sheet more than the edges.
Jack Reisland
Message 5
From: Myron Turner
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 04:32:17 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25214] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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You might try to put a piece of masonite or plexi or equivalent under your
sheet of paper to act as a press bed and a heavy smooth sheet of card on
top, making up a sandwich.
If you're ready to spend $900 on what's pretty much a toy, you might try
Thomas presses, where you can get a 24 x 36 table top etching press for
$1395 ( which might even be Canadian dollars and so very close to your $900
US).
http://www.thomaspresses.com/
Myron Turner
sheet of paper to act as a press bed and a heavy smooth sheet of card on
top, making up a sandwich.
If you're ready to spend $900 on what's pretty much a toy, you might try
Thomas presses, where you can get a 24 x 36 table top etching press for
$1395 ( which might even be Canadian dollars and so very close to your $900
US).
http://www.thomaspresses.com/
Myron Turner
Message 6
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:48:41 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25215] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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David Bull wrote:
>Trouble is, when we tried testing it
>http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-091.JPG by feeding in
>some of my sheets, I found that once the paper was about half-way through,
>it started to buckle up in front of the rollers, and there was no way to
>stop it from becoming creased as it went through. We adjusted rollers up
>and down, etc. but just weren't able to get a smooth feed.
Several ideas come to mind -- maybe one will help?
* The 'problem' may be unequal stretching of the paper -- did you feed
the paper in the direction of the grain (that's what I'd have automatically
done)? Maybe it would be better to run it with the grain parallel to the
rollers -- worth another experiment?
* The rollers may not be stiff enough. If there's ANY flex at all in
those rollers (which are fixed at each end but not in the middle), then the
paper will be driven through (and flattened) mostly from the sides which
also will tend to 'ride' toward the center causing buckling...
* The rollers may have been machined inaccurately (non-cylindrical) or
the press may be adjusted so that the rollers are perfectly parallel.
* The paper may have some thicker and thinner areas which interfere
with feeding -- damp paper might improve this.
* A felt (or two) placed between the back side of the paper and the
roller may reduce the buckling by buffering any uneven thickness of paper
or maladjustment of rollers.
* It will probably produce different (better) results with damp paper
-- my intuition is that you'll get a better surface with damp paper and
buckling may be less pronounced as the paper will be somewhat stretchier
and more mobile.
* Reduce pressure slightly by backing out the adjusting screws and see
if that improves feed (but that won't improve calendaring).
That's all that comes to mind at the moment -- let us know if you figure it
out, OK?
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
>Trouble is, when we tried testing it
>http://www.snz-k.com/picture/catalog_print_02/210-091.JPG by feeding in
>some of my sheets, I found that once the paper was about half-way through,
>it started to buckle up in front of the rollers, and there was no way to
>stop it from becoming creased as it went through. We adjusted rollers up
>and down, etc. but just weren't able to get a smooth feed.
Several ideas come to mind -- maybe one will help?
* The 'problem' may be unequal stretching of the paper -- did you feed
the paper in the direction of the grain (that's what I'd have automatically
done)? Maybe it would be better to run it with the grain parallel to the
rollers -- worth another experiment?
* The rollers may not be stiff enough. If there's ANY flex at all in
those rollers (which are fixed at each end but not in the middle), then the
paper will be driven through (and flattened) mostly from the sides which
also will tend to 'ride' toward the center causing buckling...
* The rollers may have been machined inaccurately (non-cylindrical) or
the press may be adjusted so that the rollers are perfectly parallel.
* The paper may have some thicker and thinner areas which interfere
with feeding -- damp paper might improve this.
* A felt (or two) placed between the back side of the paper and the
roller may reduce the buckling by buffering any uneven thickness of paper
or maladjustment of rollers.
* It will probably produce different (better) results with damp paper
-- my intuition is that you'll get a better surface with damp paper and
buckling may be less pronounced as the paper will be somewhat stretchier
and more mobile.
* Reduce pressure slightly by backing out the adjusting screws and see
if that improves feed (but that won't improve calendaring).
That's all that comes to mind at the moment -- let us know if you figure it
out, OK?
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com