Today's postings

  1. [Baren 24859] Re: Bamboo replacements ("marilynn smih")
  2. [Baren 24860] Re: Bamboo replacements (FurryPressII #
  3. [Baren 24861] Re: framing tools (eli griggs)
  4. [Baren 24862] exchange 19 (jack reisland)
  5. [Baren 24863] Re: framing tools ("Maria Arango")
  6. [Baren 24864] Re: framing tools (pulpfic #
  7. [Baren 24865] Re: Escheraria help (ArtfulCarol #
  8. [Baren 24866] Framing economics (Reneeaugrin #
  9. [Baren 24867] Re: exchange 19 (Mike Lyon)
  10. [Baren 24868] Re: Bamboo replacements (Julio.Rodriguez #
  11. [Baren 24869] Re: framing tools (FurryPressII #
  12. [Baren 24870] Coming to Sacramento, Ca. (Salsbury)
  13. [Baren 24871] Re: framing tools (Roger Lee)
  14. [Baren 24872] framing (Barbara Mason)
  15. [Baren 24873] Re: framing (FurryPressII #
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Message 1
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 07:46:51 -0700
Subject: [Baren 24859] Re: Bamboo replacements
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Well, not sure about the corn husks, never tried it. But in the art world
we are often charged high prices when something is labeled art. It pays to
try out your hardware stores and other sources for certain items. And
framing is outrageously over priced. Down here we took 3 pieces, no 4
pieces of art into La Paz years ago and had them framed at a sign company.
Now we can't do that becuase the area has come of age. What cost $35. as a
sign costs $100. for art.
It is still beautiful here but I am home sick.

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Message 2
From: FurryPressII #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:04:05 EDT
Subject: [Baren 24860] Re: Bamboo replacements
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I stopped buying commercial frames when they charged me 200$ for 5 feet of
walnut moulding i could have purchased at my lumber yard for 10$. So now i go
buy fancy hard wood and go to the park district wood shop and make my own
frames many with hand carved lettering etc or at least real wood joints instead
of a mitre and a 3 penny nail. Even if all i do is make a simple frame out of
cherry or walnut i can do the whole thing for maybe 25 dollars between the
wood, glass or plexi and the matting (the one thing i don't do very well)
Now if i do some of the fancy type frames modelled after the old renasance
frames i might spend 50$ for the raw materials. if they call it art supplies
they can add a zero to the price.or give you half as much.
john center
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Message 3
From: eli griggs
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:31:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 24861] Re: framing tools
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Hi there:

Marilynn, John Center is right, you can do your own
work for a fraction of framing shop cost and it is
pretty simple, if you have the right tools.

These are my choices and I think all can be had for
the price of a couple of shop done jobs.

Try looking at the Lee Valley web site for the Nobex
Champion (Pro) Miter Saw and the Record Corner Clamp.

The saw is tops for cutting all sorts of miters,
including compounds, and the selection of blades can
handle anything from 2x4s to non-ferrous metal,
composite and plastic framing material to finely cut
hardwoods. Cuts for boxes and frames are easy to make
with this tool.

The saw itself can be used to make the angled cuts for
a sanding shooting board to clean up mitered cuts as
needed, though my experience is that a fine enough
miter blade does not often need cleaning up after.

A plan for this type jig can be found in the revised
edition of "Making Woodwork Aids & Devices."

The corner clamp is a sturdy tool that does a good job
and the Record quality is as good as it gets, IMHO.

At the Lee Valley site you should also pick up at
least one of their Veritas 4-Way Speed Clamps. You
will be hard pressed to find a better way to finish
putting together your frame and box sections.

Finally, you might also seek out a Ryobi mini-plate
joiner at the Home Depot.

That and a bottle of Titebond II can join cut sections
together quickly, strongly, with a bit of careful

One tip I will pass alone is to mount the saw to a
3/4-1 inch board and use clamps to secure it to a
counter or heavy table/bench. If you have not done a
lot of sawing there is a bit of a curve when learning
how to position yourself to the saw. The clamped
board is always a good idea when cutting, but your
first tries at this new skill will be a lot less
frustrating if the bloody thing isn't jumping about!

Maybe someone else can recommend a good commercial mat
cutter, as mine is homemade.

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Message 4
From: jack reisland
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:19:12 -1000
Subject: [Baren 24862] exchange 19
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So, did I miss something? Was exchange 19 ever scanned and posted? Is it
hidden somewhere in the back room? Do we have to show our ID to see it?

Jack R?
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Message 5
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:31:02 -0700
Subject: [Baren 24863] Re: framing tools
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Or buy from
They have a wide selection of ready made frames, many of them made from
recycled pressed wood and laminates (my favorite feature, hate to kill
new trees). This saves you time, money, time, money, time, and time...oh
yeah, and trees!

Serially, I buy approximately 300-400 frames per year (not counting the
8 x 10's I get at Walmart for $2.50); have tried making my own from
stock wood, making my own from frame moulding, buying chopped moulding
and assembling my own, and buying ready-made from the aforementioned
nice folks. Not even a close comparison, although I do buy quantities,
so I'm able to get as much as 30% discount.

I have looked far and wide for wholesale frame suppliers and wholesale
frame moulding online and in town and even when I go get my own here in
town (saving shipping) I still pay around 90% what I pay at For 10% more, I'm not spending my time driving across
town, chopping and assembling my own.

Anyhow, just another option.


Maria Arango
Las Vegas Nevada USA
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Message 6
From: pulpfic #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:48:20 -0700
Subject: [Baren 24864] Re: framing tools
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Eli writes:
>Try looking at the Lee Valley web site for the Nobex
>Champion (Pro) Miter Saw and the Record Corner Clamp.

Yes, indeedy - that's _the_ saw, for sure! You can do a good job with the
Standard version of the saw, too, for quite a few $$ less. Up with
handtools! 8^P

>At the Lee Valley site you should also pick up at
>least one of their Veritas 4-Way Speed Clamps. You
>will be hard pressed to find a better way to finish
>putting together your frame and box sections.

I've found that the Veritas 4-Way Speed Clamp becomes inaccurate (out of
square) when making larger sizes of frames with it - in those cases, it
would be better to use individual corner clamps. The Record ones are
enviable, but if you don't have the $$ for those, you can make do with the
cheaper ones from any hardware store - they're wobblier, but if you're
patient you can get them set up right, and they hold well enough for small
items such as picture frames.

>Maybe someone else can recommend a good commercial mat
>cutter, as mine is homemade.

As for mat cutters, there are two ways to look at these, depending whether
your priority in mat-cutting is the border size or the window size. For
those who measure the border size and accept whatever is left for the
window, the Logan cutters with attached bases will be fine - either the
larger Simplex system or the Compact version. But if you're most concerned
with the _precise_ size of the window you're cutting (and let the borders be
what remains), you'll do better with the Logan Team System (you do all your
own measuring instead of setting pre-calibrated guides which set border
width), which is just the guide-rail/straightedge and the handheld cutter.
It's nice to have the handheld Logan straight cutter as well, for cutting
board to size. All the Logan mat cutters are a better price at Lee Valley
Tools than at any of the art supply dealers I use.

Works for me,

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ms Randi DeLisle
papermaker, bookbinder, publisher, printmaker & gourd artist
pulp fictions & pulp fictions press
Grand Forks BC Canada
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Message 7
From: ArtfulCarol #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:56:40 EDT
Subject: [Baren 24865] Re: Escheraria help
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Answering some Escheraria questions:
Escher's techniques fit into the way I have been working since I started
woodblock printing with April
Vollmer 7 years ago. That is composing within a square, layering, turning
the paper, and using both sides.

Usually I carve just one shina block, print and play with all of the above,
choosing what looks like the best of the many experimental variants.
All waterbased--watercolors, gouache, Monotype colors from Createx, Speedball,
using brushes and handprinting on very thin paper.

This summer I will have an exhibit at the Donnell Public Library, W. 53 St.
in NYC and it may include Escheraria.

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY
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Message 8
From: Reneeaugrin #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:06:18 EDT
Subject: [Baren 24866] Framing economics
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Hello everybody,

Framing can be so expensive, I have found that the most economic way of
framing for me has been to order metal frames (on sale if possible), cut my own
mats ( I have a Logan compact, which is fine for all, except those mats over 4
and 1/2" wide) and I find the biggest savings is that instead of glass (which is
preferable in many cases) I go to Home Depot and choose a large piece of
acrylic with the least amount of scratches (you have to be a little careful) and
have a 'map' of all the pieces to be cut from that piece--they will cut it for
free! I like the acrylic panes as they are light and unbreakable for sending,
moving and travelling exhibits. (I insist that I keep the scraps( for
monotype plates)--the workers just think that is strange.

Well, anyway that's what works for me :-) !

Renee Ugrin
Enjoying our juicy 'liquid sunshine' here in Oregon.
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Message 9
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:07:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24867] Re: exchange 19
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Jack R. wrote:
>So, did I miss something? Was exchange19 ever scanned and posted? Is it
>hidden somewhere in the back room? Do we have to show our ID to see it?

Nope. You didn't miss anything. The prints are here waiting in a long
queue of stuff I've "GOT" to do "YESTERDAY (or the day before), but it's
just going to have to wait a bit longer, I'm afraid... I leave Monday to
drive to Norwalk, Connecticut to lead a five-day hanga workshop and I am
certain that #19 will not put itself up prior to my
return... So... Please hang on just a little bit longer and I'll
eventually get my act together and get the prints scanned and build the
~100 or so files (30+ web pages) required for each gallery... It takes
quite a bit of time, actually, and I've had very little of that to spare

-- Mike

Mike Lyon
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Message 10
From: Julio.Rodriguez #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:09:09 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24868] Re: Bamboo replacements
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I thought of trying out corn husks once, here they sell them at the
Spanish grocery store at about $3.00 a dozen, they are used to wrap
tamales.....not sure how tighy they would wrap a baren, the leave might
split.......but that thinking was all before I went to the KC summit and
came home with about ten bamboo covers courtesy of Dave Bull.....

Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)
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Message 11
From: FurryPressII #
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:52:18 EDT
Subject: [Baren 24869] Re: framing tools
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lee valley has some of the best carving tools out there hand tools,
gouges and and even power tools for carving. One of the best selections out
there. Only weakness is they are all most all english tools as well as american
and canadian. Not to much in Japanese tools. thanks
John Furr for showing me the place.

john center
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Message 12
From: Salsbury
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 21:38:00 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24870] Coming to Sacramento, Ca.
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Hello Sacramentonians!

If there are any. I will be coming to Sacramento for a few days in June.
Specifically June 4,5,6 for a dog show. Does anyone know of any exhibits
or things I should see while there? We have talked about adding a few days
on either end of those dates if necessary to see things.

Or if there is anyone who would like to get together for a visit that would
be fantastic.

My email is if you would prefer not to take up space
from Baron topics.

As I am in the newest exchange, and it is required to take part in
discussions, does this count? :-)

Professional Lurker
Sue Salsbury
Waterloo, IA.
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Message 13
From: Roger Lee
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:24:07 -0700
Subject: [Baren 24871] Re: framing tools
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Hello out there

I have been framing my own work for years. I have also owned and operated a
custom framing store. I have a few comments regarding framing your own work.
The best hand held cutter is a plastic thing called " OLFLA". This is a
SERIOUS cutter that costs under 50 dollars ( CDN) and that's real cheap for
you Yanks. I have tried most of the 'home' cutters and this is the best by
far. If anyone is interested, contact me & I will tell you how to set it up.
As far as frames are concerned. Either buy them or get really good and
expensive equipment to make them ( $1000.00 +). I find most 'home made'
frames look home made. DO NOT take the time to create a piece of artwork and
then put it in a frame that detracts from the work. If a budget is required
is required - I suggest cutting a neutral mat and shrink wrapping the whole
darn thing. Buyers are turned off by frames that are 'one size fits all'.
For some reason they do not see past the frame that does not match the couch
or the colors of the wall paint. Neutral matting will allow them to use
their imagination and will generally fit in. Let them frame at their
expense. If a show is in order have a few neutral frames that can be
changed for the show - but do not sell them. After all most galleries show
work in neutral frames and mats.
Most cities have a route that will let them order or purchase frames in bulk
or specialty orders. There are dozens listed in just about all of the Art
Magazines out there. Contact them - and use them. You are after all -
MARKETING your own work. Don't let the expense of the framing compromise the
quality of the work you have already done. It is part of the expense in

From the rambling of Roger Lee
Vernon, BC
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Message 14
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 00:46:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 24872] framing
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I think all artists should learn how to frame their own work....I learned by doing it and am pretty good at it after 20 years. We have a wholesale account through our artist owned gallery and I am using almost all metal frames now. They are faster, cheaper and as I am selling art work not frames, I want them to be very neutral and not overpower the work. If people want fancier frames, they can certainly buy the work unframed and have it framed any way they want.

I have learned to work to standard sizes, cutting the 22x30" paper into half, quarter, eight and so on, down to very small pieces. This really saves money. I use only archival stuff and have a great Logan matcutter...not the cheapest one but one up. It has two cutting heads that remove and you pull it toward yourself, it does a 40" cut and I think it cost about $300 or less. I have some mat cutters that are a lot more expensive and do not work as well. I have a $1500 Fletcher the rep convinced me would make my breakfast, but I actually use it to cut foam expensive toy but it does make a 60" cut. If you get the right tools, framing is pretty easy. I can even cut glass now, that took me a while to learn. I broke a lot at the beginning.

I think it is a great luxury to have someone else frame my work...I am pretty fussy so have only one person who I think is as fussy that I have taken stuff to. It just costs too much to not do it myself, but if I count my time, maybe the cost is worth it. It takes about one hour for each piece if you count every step. The larger ones take a little longer and the smaller ones are a bit faster.

Most cities have frame it yourself classes and they will teach you how to do it. These lessons are well worth it. Framing in wood takes longer but wood frames are very nice on wood cuts. I would always order wooden frames assembled, if they are off a bit they will catch it at the plant and save you a lot of grief. Metal frames are almost never off for some reason, maybe because they are cut with a saw and not a chopper. I have not checked out but will do so. I do like having stuff delivered. I have to go pick it up at the wholesale place so that is time also.
Still, I think I like my work framed by me. Come on over and I will show you how to do it!
Best to all,

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Message 15
From: FurryPressII #
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 08:02:47 EDT
Subject: [Baren 24873] Re: framing
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One of the reasons I make my own frames is that I don't think of the frame as
some object just there to hold the print. I think of them as one thing more
united. In some cases I carve text into the frame to go with the print. Sort
of like a mini instillation. To me the plain gallery frame is rather boring
and about the only thing it does well is to keep the dust off of the art work.
I don't think my rather strange frames would work for art in my collection
done by others I am thinking of a design to use on this art. Any way just my
wondering words on the subject.

Matting i would rather have some one else do.

john center