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Message 1
From: Emkaygee # aol.com
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:08:59 EST
Subject: [Baren 24687] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V26 #2593 (Mar 22, 2004)
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Hi!
I know I'm coming into the conversation late, but I just wanted to make a
quick comment. Laser overprinting will only be possible to accomplish if you use
waterbased printing ink on the base print, as lazer ink is usually water
based. Oil will print over water, but not water over oil.
Hope someone is having the benefit of Spring!
Mary (in snowy Cleveland)

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Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:03:38 -0600
Subject: [Baren 24688] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V26 #2593 (Mar 22, 2004)
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Mary wrote:
>I know I'm coming into the conversation late, but I just wanted to make a
>quick comment. Laser overprinting will only be possible to accomplish if
>you use waterbased printing ink on the base print, as lazer ink is usually
>water based. Oil will print over water, but not water over oil.
>Hope someone is having he benefit of Spring!

Thanks, Mary -- but didn't you mean that 'ink jet' might be used to
over-print watercolors (but probably won't work very well on those
water-based oily ink replacements)? If you're relief printing on damp
paper, many ink-jet inks will run like crazy into the damp, so ink-jet
printing might still be best done after relief printing is complete and the
paper is dry... If you're printing 'oily', just leave bare paper where the
ink-jet will print for best results (some ink-jet inks transfer very well
using damp blotter, by the way)...

Laser toner is actually NOT water based,... Toner is usually (there are a
LOT of different formulae in use) about 10% carbon each tiny particle of
which is encased in (90%) thermo-plastic -- the resulting toner 'powder' is
electrostatically attracted to the charged (dark) areas of the paper and
then melted into place by a very hot 'fuser bar' -- that's why you can
transfer toner with a very hot iron (melts that thermo-plastic) or solvents
(dissolves that thermo-plastic)...

Because of the heat in laser printers (and those nice, clean, smooth
rollers inside), it'd probably be better to do any laser printing before
doing relief printing -- save some repair cost to the electronic equipment
with just a bit of planning ahead!

Although laser toner is usually soluble in lacquer-thinner, acetone,
naphtha (or a cocktail of two or three), it is not usually very soluble in
mineral spirits or turpentine... I think you can safely laser print prior
to relief printing with either oil or water borne pigments...

-- Mike


Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com

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Message 3
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:57:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24689] Re: Exchange 21
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Diane Cutter wrote:

> Hi, Mike...
>
> Since I do plan to be on the exchange list, then I guess I'd better
> express my "drathers". I would rather the fourelements or nude. The
> Haiku sounds intriguing but I'm a little intimidated with the written
> word. And I'd prefer oban or smaller (or "other") since this is a
> first time effort for me..
>
> Of course if that haiku is in Spanish, well...
> quizas....quizas....quizas
>
> And thank you to Julio, Frank and Carolfor the kind words on my art.
> It made me feel very welcome to be among such a supportive group. It
> took away the trepidation I had about joining in with such a talented,
> dedicated group.
>
> Diane...


diane... i 'see' beautiful poetry in your fabulous art :) and...I love
your written words on the front page of your website...


"For many years I played at art and then one magic day I realizedI
wasn't playing any more.


Springtime deserts, starry sky,
sunsets on full sails,
little children that ask "why?"

These are all things that make me create.... "


lovely, diane :D
bette wappner

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Message 4
From: "HARRY FRENCH"
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:30:58 -0000
Subject: [Baren 24690] Ref:Surimono/Haiku
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Greetings members,
The forum seems to be in a frenzy with two words that are fairly new to me : 'Haiku' and 'Surimono' and last week there was a posting concerning a scholarship in Japanese prints because we have academic members.

Do we really...?

I can't resist, therefore, asking if I've acquired a 'Surimono' (??) from a street market in London.
It is a book in a portfolio and opens in an accordion style. It contains Hiroshige's eight views of Omi with Haiku(??) : print sizes 18cmx11.8cm One of the prints, ' Evening rain at Karasaki Pine Temple' is rather lavish with an extra silver textured printing imitating the rain. I can't understand why the prints are so small.
Mmmm ....go on then, in for a penny in for a pound, I've also picked up recently a wooden bound book, accordion style, of the first 28 prints of Hiroshige's Stations on the Tokaido Road. (Hoeido edition or a smart copy). The print size is 21cmx13.4cm : again I cannot fathom out why they are so small and in a book form...maybe copies for booksellers in Japan or Europe or for the new tourist trade? Their identification is of academic interest to me, but from a woodblock printer's point of view they are a treasured inspiration, particularly because in book form the colours have kept their brilliance. I trawled the Internet for information and got most of it from http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~johnxyz/index.html

Any thoughts out there in the Baren Forum?

Harry.
Lincoln (UK)

I have put a photo of the books and electronically scanned two of the prints ( oh dear ! )and placed them in my webspace . They are worth a look even if you are not a scholar.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/h.french1/HIROSHIGEBOOKS.htm

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Message 5
From: Daniel Dew
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:40:30 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24691] Pressure
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I've always had this question in the back of my mind and wanted to ask
the group:
How much pressure is applied to the baren in Hanga style printing?
I know when I do my prints western style (roller and dry paper), I have
to use tons of pressure at times.
If the paper is damp and the ink wet, is there less pressure involved?

Daniel L. Dew

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Message 6
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:51:20 -0600
Subject: [Baren 24692] Re: Ref:Surimono/Haiku
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Harry wrote:
>I can't resist, therefore, asking if I've acquired a 'Surimono' (??) from
>a street market in London.

You've acquired (not surimono) but nice (appear to be late 20th century)
Japanese woodblock prints -- reproductions -- genuine woodblock prints but
copies of Hiroshige's mid-19th C. masterpieces, still so popular after a
century and a half.

-- Mike


Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com

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Message 7
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:49:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 24693] Surimono/Haiku
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Harry,
What a fabulous treasure you have there! We are all green with envy. Possibly Dave Bull will have info for you as living in Japan he should know more about these old books. Congratulations on finding these and having the good sense to buy them!
Best to you,
Barbara

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Message 8
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:54:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 24694] Re: Pressure
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Dan,
I would say yes, a lot less pressure. You can feel the block through the baren and apply more or less pressure where you need it. This is a simplified statement but you get the idea. This does not mean your arm does not get a bit tired printing many colors...but I think the pressure is much less than a press and even less than a spoon. The damp paper does help and also helps hold the paper in place on the block so less chance of it moving.

On another note the check I sent you for the last exchange came back so can you send me your address off line? I took it from the baren site but maybe your post man just does not like you...hummmmm. But the prints arrived at this same address, so go figure.
Best to you,
Barbara

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Message 9
From: Daniel Dew
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:06:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24695] Re: Pressure
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Thanks for the help on the "pressure".

Yeah, I quit that job after 16 years, so they are being jerks, figures.
I will ping you off list for the address.

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Message 10
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:20:38 -0600
Subject: [Baren 24696] Re: Pressure
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Dan Dew wrote:
>I've always had this question in the back of my mind and wanted to ask the
>group:
>How much pressure is applied to the baren in Hanga style printing?

My grandmother used to respond to this sort of unanswerable question with a
question of her own, "how big is a breadbox?"... I guess breadboxes,
whatever those were, used to come in all sorts of sizes. So, a baren is a
disk with bumps... You could think that there are 'b' bumps per square
inch of the baren ('b' varies with the coarseness of the baren, but let's
say there are between 25 and 150 bumps per square inch over the 25 to 30
square inches of area in a typical baren -- but only about half of that
actually transmitting pressure because of the size of the hand and the
typical method of use), and each bump (I love this kind of stuff!) has a
somewhat variable depending on the stiffness of the cord/knots/bumps but
very small surface area -- say a thousandth of a square inch or
thereabouts... And the surface area under the baren varies depending on
how much of the block has been carved away (and to a certain extent, how
smooth or coarse is the paper and how smooth or coarse is the baren
cover)... So maybe these are the technical constraints of the typical baren:

100 bumps per square inch @ 1/1000 of a square inch each times 15 square
inches of baren = 1.5 square inches of baren pressing into the paper (and
maybe a lot less than this)...

Pressure from the printer on the baren varies from, say, 0 lbs to, say, 60
lbs (normally maybe 10 to 20 lbs?)...

So the paper is typically pressed into uncarved areas of the block
(assuming that the block is uncarved)... with from 0 to 40 lbs per square
inch, most typically 7 to 14 lbs per square inch -- if you put the same
weight into the baren over carved areas, the pressure goes up in direct
proportion to how much is carved away -- if there are fine lines to be
printed with the surrounding area all carved away, you might have 99% of
the area carved and only 1% printing, in which case a given weight on the
baren results in 100 times more pounds per square inch on the lines than
the same weight gives in an area which prints solid... The same is true
when you relief print on many presses (some presses, like the Vandercook
proofing press, have the printing roller 'fixed' so that the paper/wood are
compressed only a certain amount), but the press cannot accommodate such
changes in the blocks surface area so it can be difficult to print blocks
which have large flat areas alongside large carved areas, as sufficient
pressure to print the flat areas may be too much for the carved areas, and
vice versa... but the printer with a baren can and does adjust his
printing in accordance with the characteristics of the block...

So that's the 'short' answer, I think...

-- Mike


Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com

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Message 11
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:24:22 +0800
Subject: [Baren 24697] Re: Carved Calligraphy Block
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Dear Bette,


> I'd love to see your carved calligraphy woodblock. Do you have it
> online anywhere?
>Bette
I will have when it goes up for the large Print Exchange, but not
everyone has sent their prints to Sharri yet. I will send you a copy
off line from my digital camera.

Cheers,
Jan

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Message 12
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:21:58 -0800
Subject: [Baren 24698] puzzle arrived
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Hey Maria and Barbara,

At the end of last week I received a parcel notice from the post office.
Went down and picked it up, and VIOLA! Great project ... great job. It all
came together extremely well. Add my congratulations to all the others.

The one thing I wonder about is: Maria, how many hours did you spend on the
project? It must have been very time consuming, with the gathering of
materials, cutting out the blocks, sending them to participants, unpacking
each returned block, etc., etc.

I would love to have seen you carting all those tubes down to the post
office. With the heightened security "awareness" in the land, it is a
wonder you were not arrested for carrying bazookas or ground-to-air missile
launchers!!!

Cheers ...... Charles

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Message 13
From: Emma Jane Hogbin
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:36:00 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24699] Re: portfolio of work "photos"
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It's an old thread, I know...but just as a follow-up. I'm still applying
for craft shows. The latest one allows me to be creative with my
application package if I want to. So this is what I did:

http://strangelittlegirl.com/books/accordion/cabbagetown1.jpg
http://strangelittlegirl.com/books/accordion/cabbagetown2.jpg

It's an accordion fold book with printouts from my ink jet printer. The
cover is Japanese paper (used inside-out because I don't like the print on
it) with my business name hand lettered with bleach. The final size is
7.5" x 7". I should have used the extra .5" on the hinges, but it's fine
the way it is. Not my best work ever in terms of technical accuracy, but
it was a fun little project to work on.

emma

--
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]

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