Today's postings
- [Baren 24404] walnut (Ray Hudson)
- [Baren 24405] LPEII (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 24406] Re: walnut (L Cass)
- [Baren 24407] Re: Wood Grain Direction (Jan Telfer)
- [Baren 24408] Fwd: Re: [print-editions] Fwd: Re: [print-editions] Digest Number 276 (Charles Morgan)
- [Baren 24409] Re: Wood Grain Direction (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 24410] Re: "cheap" presses and images (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 24411] Re: Wood Grain Direction ("marilynn smih")
- [Baren 24412] Re: walnut ("Andrew Argyle")
- [Baren 24413] EXCHANGE ARRIVALS PLUS GOING AGAIST THE GRAIN (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 24414] Re: "cheap" presses and images (Myron Turner)
- [Baren 24415] Hello from a newbie :o) ("cjpiers")
- [Baren 24416] Re: Hello from a newbie :o) (Bette Norcross Wappner)
Message 1
From: Ray Hudson
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:30:24 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24404] walnut
Send Message: To this poster
I have used walnut in the past when I printed with oil inks and loved
the texture. It's a good wood for certain effects but may not be
satisfatory for all key blocks.
Ray Hudson
the texture. It's a good wood for certain effects but may not be
satisfatory for all key blocks.
Ray Hudson
Message 2
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:08:30 EST
Subject: [Baren 24405] LPEII
Send Message: To this poster
Sharri my large print is in the mail today
john center
john center
Message 3
From: L Cass
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:57:16 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24406] Re: walnut
Send Message: To this poster
And going beyond walnut - please - has anyone out there tried PEAR?? Also
why is basswood consistently referred to as hardwood? - it's softer than pine!
Louise Cass
www.LCassArt.com
Message 4
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:53:28 +0800
Subject: [Baren 24407] Re: Wood Grain Direction
Send Message: To this poster
Dear Mike,
Thank you for your prompt reply and the explanation.
> Hi, Jan! Plywood's plys are glued with the grain running
> perpendicular to
> adjacent plys, so it is usually quite stable and you can have the
> grain run
> across, up and down, or diagonally without worrying too much...
I haven't had any problem with registration being malaligned because of
the dampening of the wood, but that could be important if the blocks
were too wet over a long period of time or warping if left to dry in
hot conditions perhaps and then rewet and printed. Our weather can be
a bit like Vegas weather!! Personally I don't soak my wood or wet it
much ..I am a fairly dry printer as I find that the ink and paper are
easier to handle.
What I was mainly concerned about was whether the wood grain direction
would show if using it over wide coloured areas if the grain direction
in the different blocks was conflicting.... so it will be OK in the ply
wood, but to be careful in the solid timber. The grain in the shina
can appear in some prints, so it would be advisable to avoid having to
recarve a block if this does happen....yes?
The grain definitely shows in my oil based prints, so the grain in
multiblocks would have to go the same way!
> With solid
> blocks (not plywood), wood does not expand or contract much if at all
> along
> the direction of the grain (fiber bundles), but can expand and
> contract a
> lot across the grain, so it is best to have the grain running parallel
> to
> the longer dimension of the block (paper grain should run the same way
> with
> laid lines parallel to the long dimension of the block).
OK SO, the longer side follows the direction of the grain and the long
paper fibers also follow in the same direction..... With the machine
made papers, like Fabriano and BFK the longer side is the side that
should run parallel to the longer side of the block..... for a simple
explanation...is that right?
Thank you for the list of woods too..... we have many of these here.
Customs didn't like my bringing my woodblocks into Australia when I
returned from America and Canada, even though I reverently explained
that I had taken these same blocks with me out of the country !! I
know they are protecting our environment, but I am sure my woodblocks
were more pure than the shiploads of timber that are delivered onto our
wharfs each day from overseas.
Walnut does make beautiful timber too. When I exhaust my friend's
supply of shina ply then I will have to try others..... but while it is
available I will plod on!
A wood turning friend has given me some end grain off cuts and I am
hoping that I can get a few lessons from Lawrence Finn in Sydney on my
visit there in October to give me a few lessons! I need them sanded!!
Thanks Mike for your help and I'll do my next lot of blocks even though
they are shina in the same direction.... it is good to get into a habit
here....!!
I will leave the rest of your information attached for those who missed
your first posting.
Many thanks,
Jan
> Different species
> have different coefficients of expansion (and quarter-sawn wood has
> different coefficients than plank-sawn wood of the same species), so on
> large blocks this might cause problems, too, if you're very particular
> about registration...
>
> There's a decent non-technical comparison of some common (American)
> woods
> here: http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM950.pdf
>
> Which says, in part:
>
> Woods used for interior applications may come from two broad classes of
> trees: softwoods (needle-bearing trees) and hardwoods (broadleaved,
> deciduous trees). This botanical division does not necessarily relate
> to
> the characteristics of the wood; for example, some hardwoods are softer
> than some softwoods. Hardwoods are called "porous" woods; softwoods are
> labeled "nonporous" species.
>
> Relative hardness:
> Hardwoods:
> Soft: Aspen, Basswood, Butternut, Cottonwood, Willow, Yellow Poplar
> Medium: Black Ash, Black Cherry, Hack Berry, Luauans, Paper Birch, Red
> Elm, Silver Maple
> Hard: Black Walnut, Hickory, Pecan, Red Oak, Sugar Maple, White Ash,
> White
> Oak Yellow Birch
> Softwoods:
> Soft: Eastern White Pine, Sugar Pine, Incense Cedar, Western Red Cedar,
> Pondersosa Pine, Western White Pine, Redwood, White Fir, Spruces
> Hard: Douglas Fir, Eastern Red Cedar, Red Pine, Southern Pines,
> Hemlock,
> Western Larch
>
> Ease of working with hand tools:
> Hardwoods:
> Easy: Basswood, Butternut, Yellow Poplar
> Moderate: Black Walnut, Cottonwood, Paper Birch, Sycamore
> Difficult: Black Cherry, Elms, Hackberry, Hickories, Maples, Oaks,
> White
> Ash, Yellow Birch
> Softwoods:
> Easy: Incense Cedar, Ponderosa Pine, Sugar Pine, Western Red Cedar,
> White
> Pines
> Moderate: Eastern Red Cedar, Hemlocks, Lodgepole Pine, Redwood,
> Spruces,
> White Fir
> Difficult: Douglas Fir, Southern Pines, Western Larch,
>
> Relative shrinkage:
> Hardwoods:
> Moderate: Aspen, Black cherry, Black walnut, Butternut, Silver maple,
> Yellow poplar
> High: Ashes, Lauans, Basswood, Oaks, Birches, Pecan, Cottonwood, Sugar
> maple, Elms, Sycamore, Hackberry, Willows, Hickories
> Softwoods:
> Low: Cedars, Eastern white pine, Ponderosa pine, Redwood, White fir
> Moderate: Douglas fir, Lodgepole pine, Southern pines, Spruces, Western
> hemlock, Western white pine
> High: Western larch
>
> - -- Mike
>
>
> Mike Lyon
> http://mlyon.com
>
Thank you for your prompt reply and the explanation.
> Hi, Jan! Plywood's plys are glued with the grain running
> perpendicular to
> adjacent plys, so it is usually quite stable and you can have the
> grain run
> across, up and down, or diagonally without worrying too much...
I haven't had any problem with registration being malaligned because of
the dampening of the wood, but that could be important if the blocks
were too wet over a long period of time or warping if left to dry in
hot conditions perhaps and then rewet and printed. Our weather can be
a bit like Vegas weather!! Personally I don't soak my wood or wet it
much ..I am a fairly dry printer as I find that the ink and paper are
easier to handle.
What I was mainly concerned about was whether the wood grain direction
would show if using it over wide coloured areas if the grain direction
in the different blocks was conflicting.... so it will be OK in the ply
wood, but to be careful in the solid timber. The grain in the shina
can appear in some prints, so it would be advisable to avoid having to
recarve a block if this does happen....yes?
The grain definitely shows in my oil based prints, so the grain in
multiblocks would have to go the same way!
> With solid
> blocks (not plywood), wood does not expand or contract much if at all
> along
> the direction of the grain (fiber bundles), but can expand and
> contract a
> lot across the grain, so it is best to have the grain running parallel
> to
> the longer dimension of the block (paper grain should run the same way
> with
> laid lines parallel to the long dimension of the block).
OK SO, the longer side follows the direction of the grain and the long
paper fibers also follow in the same direction..... With the machine
made papers, like Fabriano and BFK the longer side is the side that
should run parallel to the longer side of the block..... for a simple
explanation...is that right?
Thank you for the list of woods too..... we have many of these here.
Customs didn't like my bringing my woodblocks into Australia when I
returned from America and Canada, even though I reverently explained
that I had taken these same blocks with me out of the country !! I
know they are protecting our environment, but I am sure my woodblocks
were more pure than the shiploads of timber that are delivered onto our
wharfs each day from overseas.
Walnut does make beautiful timber too. When I exhaust my friend's
supply of shina ply then I will have to try others..... but while it is
available I will plod on!
A wood turning friend has given me some end grain off cuts and I am
hoping that I can get a few lessons from Lawrence Finn in Sydney on my
visit there in October to give me a few lessons! I need them sanded!!
Thanks Mike for your help and I'll do my next lot of blocks even though
they are shina in the same direction.... it is good to get into a habit
here....!!
I will leave the rest of your information attached for those who missed
your first posting.
Many thanks,
Jan
> Different species
> have different coefficients of expansion (and quarter-sawn wood has
> different coefficients than plank-sawn wood of the same species), so on
> large blocks this might cause problems, too, if you're very particular
> about registration...
>
> There's a decent non-technical comparison of some common (American)
> woods
> here: http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM950.pdf
>
> Which says, in part:
>
> Woods used for interior applications may come from two broad classes of
> trees: softwoods (needle-bearing trees) and hardwoods (broadleaved,
> deciduous trees). This botanical division does not necessarily relate
> to
> the characteristics of the wood; for example, some hardwoods are softer
> than some softwoods. Hardwoods are called "porous" woods; softwoods are
> labeled "nonporous" species.
>
> Relative hardness:
> Hardwoods:
> Soft: Aspen, Basswood, Butternut, Cottonwood, Willow, Yellow Poplar
> Medium: Black Ash, Black Cherry, Hack Berry, Luauans, Paper Birch, Red
> Elm, Silver Maple
> Hard: Black Walnut, Hickory, Pecan, Red Oak, Sugar Maple, White Ash,
> White
> Oak Yellow Birch
> Softwoods:
> Soft: Eastern White Pine, Sugar Pine, Incense Cedar, Western Red Cedar,
> Pondersosa Pine, Western White Pine, Redwood, White Fir, Spruces
> Hard: Douglas Fir, Eastern Red Cedar, Red Pine, Southern Pines,
> Hemlock,
> Western Larch
>
> Ease of working with hand tools:
> Hardwoods:
> Easy: Basswood, Butternut, Yellow Poplar
> Moderate: Black Walnut, Cottonwood, Paper Birch, Sycamore
> Difficult: Black Cherry, Elms, Hackberry, Hickories, Maples, Oaks,
> White
> Ash, Yellow Birch
> Softwoods:
> Easy: Incense Cedar, Ponderosa Pine, Sugar Pine, Western Red Cedar,
> White
> Pines
> Moderate: Eastern Red Cedar, Hemlocks, Lodgepole Pine, Redwood,
> Spruces,
> White Fir
> Difficult: Douglas Fir, Southern Pines, Western Larch,
>
> Relative shrinkage:
> Hardwoods:
> Moderate: Aspen, Black cherry, Black walnut, Butternut, Silver maple,
> Yellow poplar
> High: Ashes, Lauans, Basswood, Oaks, Birches, Pecan, Cottonwood, Sugar
> maple, Elms, Sycamore, Hackberry, Willows, Hickories
> Softwoods:
> Low: Cedars, Eastern white pine, Ponderosa pine, Redwood, White fir
> Moderate: Douglas fir, Lodgepole pine, Southern pines, Spruces, Western
> hemlock, Western white pine
> High: Western larch
>
> - -- Mike
>
>
> Mike Lyon
> http://mlyon.com
>
Message 5
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:04:59 -0800
Subject: [Baren 24408] Fwd: Re: [print-editions] Digest Number 276
Send Message: To this poster
>If anybody is looking for an etching press used there
>is an Ettan 18" x 36" on ebay right now out of Los
>Angeles.
This just came to my attention.
Cheers ..... Charles
Message 6
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:23:04 -0600
Subject: [Baren 24409] Re: Wood Grain Direction
Send Message: To this poster
Jan wrote:
>What I was mainly concerned about was whether the wood grain direction
>would show if using it over wide coloured areas if the grain direction in
>the different blocks was conflicting....
With plywoods, this genuinely is a matter of taste -- wonderful 'woven'
effects can be had by over-printing (for example) luan plywood with the
grain running in different directions regardless whether you are printing
western oily or eastern watery... Also, there are even more wonderful and
interesting printing effects available by heavily printing deeply grained
woods like luan so that the paper is embossed during printing and then,
more lightly overprinting a second block so that only the previously
printed areas receive ink from the second printing... Take a look at
fantastic experimental prints by Junichiro Sekino, for example, who
habitually combined eastern and western methods in the same prints -- the
subjects are sometimes pedestrian, but the surfaces are... well, pretty
incredible -- you probably have to see in person to appreciate this, but
here's a link anyway:
http://www.carolynstaleyprints.com/artists/A_sekinoJ.shtm -- aquarium, for
example, is a reduction print from perhaps three blocks and is quite
interesting in person -- text is worth reading!
>With the machine made papers, like Fabriano and BFK the longer side is the
>side that should run parallel to the longer side of the block..... for a
>simple explanation...is that right?
Well... I don't know every paper of course, but I've printed a lot of BFK
-- it is almost but not quite 'grainless' like most western papers, and
seems to expand/contract roughly equally in all directions -- so (I think)
it can be used in any orientation -- this is very different from, for
example, Yamaguchi Hosho supplied by Baren Mall or other traditional
Japanese printmaking papers in which the grain is pronounced and the paper
is quite stable along the grain direction...
-- also, I was very entertained by the varied comments on walnut -- just
reinforces that there really are NO absolutes with this stuff -- it's art,
not science and it's important to experiment constantly and follow our
hearts more than our minds -- uh... well, that's what I'm thinking at this
moment, but that's not absolute, of course, and others surely feel quite
differentl..
Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
>What I was mainly concerned about was whether the wood grain direction
>would show if using it over wide coloured areas if the grain direction in
>the different blocks was conflicting....
With plywoods, this genuinely is a matter of taste -- wonderful 'woven'
effects can be had by over-printing (for example) luan plywood with the
grain running in different directions regardless whether you are printing
western oily or eastern watery... Also, there are even more wonderful and
interesting printing effects available by heavily printing deeply grained
woods like luan so that the paper is embossed during printing and then,
more lightly overprinting a second block so that only the previously
printed areas receive ink from the second printing... Take a look at
fantastic experimental prints by Junichiro Sekino, for example, who
habitually combined eastern and western methods in the same prints -- the
subjects are sometimes pedestrian, but the surfaces are... well, pretty
incredible -- you probably have to see in person to appreciate this, but
here's a link anyway:
http://www.carolynstaleyprints.com/artists/A_sekinoJ.shtm -- aquarium, for
example, is a reduction print from perhaps three blocks and is quite
interesting in person -- text is worth reading!
>With the machine made papers, like Fabriano and BFK the longer side is the
>side that should run parallel to the longer side of the block..... for a
>simple explanation...is that right?
Well... I don't know every paper of course, but I've printed a lot of BFK
-- it is almost but not quite 'grainless' like most western papers, and
seems to expand/contract roughly equally in all directions -- so (I think)
it can be used in any orientation -- this is very different from, for
example, Yamaguchi Hosho supplied by Baren Mall or other traditional
Japanese printmaking papers in which the grain is pronounced and the paper
is quite stable along the grain direction...
-- also, I was very entertained by the varied comments on walnut -- just
reinforces that there really are NO absolutes with this stuff -- it's art,
not science and it's important to experiment constantly and follow our
hearts more than our minds -- uh... well, that's what I'm thinking at this
moment, but that's not absolute, of course, and others surely feel quite
differentl..
Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
Message 7
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:50:00 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 24410] Re: "cheap" presses and images
Send Message: To this poster
Phenolic is the stuff....and you can drill into it, it is machined all the time, so whoever told you this was wrong. You need the propper drill or it will melt and not drill. The reason benelux was better is that it had layers of some type of mesh in it to lighten the weight and also increase the compression strength. Why not see if you can get linenboard? This might work and we use it in the plastic industry to machine fixture bases. It is very strong, made of mesh and some type or compressed wood. I think it would be considerably cheaper. Any thing will work as a press bed as long as it won't compress, I used a sheet of acrylic on top of a piece of wood for a long time...eventually the wood compresses and needs to be replaced.
best to luck,
Barbara
best to luck,
Barbara
Message 8
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:27:15 -0800
Subject: [Baren 24411] Re: Wood Grain Direction
Send Message: To this poster
there really are NO absolutes with this stuff -- it's art, not science and
it's important to experiment constantly and follow our hearts more than our
minds --
I am thinking that this attitude is exactly what makes an artist, and this
attitude can lead an artist to greatness.
Thanks Mike for all the wood info, great to have. How about myrtle wood?
When we drove through the Oregon coast I wanted to stop and pick some up for
carving, but the truck was already packed full. Maybe on the way north I
can get the hubby to head over to the Oregon coast if the wood would be
worth it.
I tried my saved link to baren after 5 and the mail came back
undeliverable????
Mixing eastern and western techniques is intriguing. Has any one tried oil
over water? Wondering with this reduction plate if the final bright color
might do well in oil based ink??? Oh my and am I happy, the first prints
are coming off well (so much better than that messy little block I had at
the summit)!!! Thanks for all the advice and continuing support, what a
great group this is!
Marilynn watching for birds and whales in Baja
_________________________________________________________________
it's important to experiment constantly and follow our hearts more than our
minds --
I am thinking that this attitude is exactly what makes an artist, and this
attitude can lead an artist to greatness.
Thanks Mike for all the wood info, great to have. How about myrtle wood?
When we drove through the Oregon coast I wanted to stop and pick some up for
carving, but the truck was already packed full. Maybe on the way north I
can get the hubby to head over to the Oregon coast if the wood would be
worth it.
I tried my saved link to baren after 5 and the mail came back
undeliverable????
Mixing eastern and western techniques is intriguing. Has any one tried oil
over water? Wondering with this reduction plate if the final bright color
might do well in oil based ink??? Oh my and am I happy, the first prints
are coming off well (so much better than that messy little block I had at
the summit)!!! Thanks for all the advice and continuing support, what a
great group this is!
Marilynn watching for birds and whales in Baja
_________________________________________________________________
Message 9
From: "Andrew Argyle"
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:13:05 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24412] Re: walnut
Send Message: To this poster
The difference between softwoods and hardwoods is simple, (you just have to
remember it has nothing to with how hard and soft the wood actually is) . A
softwood is from a tree that is cone bearing, a hardwood is a wood from any
broadleaf (decidious) tree. That's it.
so, basswood is a hardwood because the tree it comes from has leaves... and
pine is a softwood because it comes from a tree that bears cones..
-Andrew
remember it has nothing to with how hard and soft the wood actually is) . A
softwood is from a tree that is cone bearing, a hardwood is a wood from any
broadleaf (decidious) tree. That's it.
so, basswood is a hardwood because the tree it comes from has leaves... and
pine is a softwood because it comes from a tree that bears cones..
-Andrew
Message 10
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:52:17 EST
Subject: [Baren 24413] EXCHANGE ARRIVALS PLUS GOING AGAIST THE GRAIN
Send Message: To this poster
Dimitris work arrived today and he wins the award on packaging i loved the
box and how he wrapped the prints. plus the prints were nice too. and
Barbara the baren boxes came to day as well. we are now 28 so almost a full
house the title page is printed and i will start on the colophon tommorow
I should have every thing printed and put to gether and out by the end of
next week unless something happen out side of my control.
On the other subject paper grain Machine made western paper has grain but
it does not seem to matter in letterpress printing which direction the grain
goes BUT IT DOES MATTER IF YOU ARE DOING BOOK BINDING AND OR FOLDING WHICH
WAY THE GRAIN GOES. Western hand made paper does not have grain. I have never
made asian paper so i will not speak to it vs grain.
john center
box and how he wrapped the prints. plus the prints were nice too. and
Barbara the baren boxes came to day as well. we are now 28 so almost a full
house the title page is printed and i will start on the colophon tommorow
I should have every thing printed and put to gether and out by the end of
next week unless something happen out side of my control.
On the other subject paper grain Machine made western paper has grain but
it does not seem to matter in letterpress printing which direction the grain
goes BUT IT DOES MATTER IF YOU ARE DOING BOOK BINDING AND OR FOLDING WHICH
WAY THE GRAIN GOES. Western hand made paper does not have grain. I have never
made asian paper so i will not speak to it vs grain.
john center
Message 11
From: Myron Turner
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:13:36 -0600
Subject: [Baren 24414] Re: "cheap" presses and images
Send Message: To this poster
I thinkthe point was that you can drill into the edge, of course, but that
screws would not hold very well. The source of my info was the
manufacturer's representative.
Myron
screws would not hold very well. The source of my info was the
manufacturer's representative.
Myron
Message 12
From: "cjpiers"
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:56:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 24415] Hello from a newbie :o)
Send Message: To this poster
Hello
I just wanted to introduce myself to the [Baren] group.
My name is Connie and I am from Washington state.
I have been looking around the website and I am so impressed
with the amount of information (and of course the
exchange gallery) to be found there. A great resource!
I did some of printmaking in college a while ago (quite a while LOL) and am excited about taking up
printmaking on a more dedicated level and I am so pleased I found this site.
Well, just wanted to say Hi
Connie
I just wanted to introduce myself to the [Baren] group.
My name is Connie and I am from Washington state.
I have been looking around the website and I am so impressed
with the amount of information (and of course the
exchange gallery) to be found there. A great resource!
I did some of printmaking in college a while ago (quite a while LOL) and am excited about taking up
printmaking on a more dedicated level and I am so pleased I found this site.
Well, just wanted to say Hi
Connie
Message 13
From: Bette Norcross Wappner
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 22:12:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 24416] Re: Hello from a newbie :o)
Send Message: To this poster
A warm welcome to you Connie! Baren is a group of wonderful printmakers
who are not only 'very' knowledgeable, but care enough to share that
knowledge. What type of printmaking do you prefer?
I am from northern Kentucky and I work in the Japanese printmaking
tradition referred to as Moku-Hanga - watercolor. I found Baren two
years ago.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask away.
Sincerely,
Bette Wappner
who are not only 'very' knowledgeable, but care enough to share that
knowledge. What type of printmaking do you prefer?
I am from northern Kentucky and I work in the Japanese printmaking
tradition referred to as Moku-Hanga - watercolor. I found Baren two
years ago.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask away.
Sincerely,
Bette Wappner