Today's postings
- [Baren 23905] Re: professional movers (also called machinery riggers) (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 23906] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V26 #2516 (Jan 19, 2004) (GWohlken)
- [Baren 23907] Re: seeking advice on moving a press (Sharri LaPierre)
- [Baren 23908] Re: seeking advice on moving a press (James Bryant)
- [Baren 23909] Re: seeking advice on moving a press ("marilynn smih")
- [Baren 23910] Kitakata paper (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 23911] Seeking Carole Baker (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
- [Baren 23912] new printer's questions (JMartin906 # aol.com)
- [Baren 23913] Re: Shunga? (eli griggs)
- [Baren 23914] 2ed shunga in house (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 23915] Re: seeking advice on moving a press (Catherine Dreiss)
Message 1
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:34:30 EST
Subject: [Baren 23905] Re: professional movers (also called machinery riggers)
Send Message: To this poster
I saw professionals move a complete print shop at Columbia College 7
vandercooks, 1 full sized washington hand press 5 full sized c & p' and a
couple doz table and other presses, Plus at least a couple of tons of type in old
type cases. Nothing was damaged and none of the type was even pied. And
these guys moved fast. looked very experienced.
I have also seen people try to move their own and drop the sucker
john center
vandercooks, 1 full sized washington hand press 5 full sized c & p' and a
couple doz table and other presses, Plus at least a couple of tons of type in old
type cases. Nothing was damaged and none of the type was even pied. And
these guys moved fast. looked very experienced.
I have also seen people try to move their own and drop the sucker
john center
Message 2
From: GWohlken
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:16:07 -0500
Subject: [Baren 23906] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V26 #2516 (Jan 19, 2004)
Send Message: To this poster
Barbara wrote:
> I have never had ink come through Kitakata paper, even using a
> press...you must be using too much ink. I use very transparent colors
> and have printed 6 or 7, one behind the other on Kitakata and have
> never, never had it come through...
Barbara, I don't use a press and do use a wide wooden drawer pull for
my main baren when printing with oil-based inks, as well as the ball
bearing baren. I use transparenting medium (thin layers), Setswell
Compound for color work, and Daniel Smith inks. I sometimes have to
roll up a color more than once to get coverage as I notice
transparenting medium doesn't just make a thin layer, but actually
causes skipping. I have to burnish very hard to get an even layer of
color. The ink just goes through (not lots of it, though, but a
little). The problem may be that I print dry.
My method of registration (I don't cut kentos, but use thin pieces of
tape on the edge of the paper to hold it in place, and I print the
whole image, all colors, while the paper remains fixed in position)
prevents me from using dampened paper.
Also, Barbara, since you have a lot of experience with printing, I'd
like to ask you about Setswell Compund. I notice it makes the ink
buttery. How much Setswell would you use in relationship to the mixed
color?
I am also wondering if Kitakata paper is a wrong one to use for color
work. Sometimes I notice tiny fibers pulling away (despite using
Setswell) when I lift the paper, like peach fuzz being pulled away.
Gayle/Ohio
> I have never had ink come through Kitakata paper, even using a
> press...you must be using too much ink. I use very transparent colors
> and have printed 6 or 7, one behind the other on Kitakata and have
> never, never had it come through...
Barbara, I don't use a press and do use a wide wooden drawer pull for
my main baren when printing with oil-based inks, as well as the ball
bearing baren. I use transparenting medium (thin layers), Setswell
Compound for color work, and Daniel Smith inks. I sometimes have to
roll up a color more than once to get coverage as I notice
transparenting medium doesn't just make a thin layer, but actually
causes skipping. I have to burnish very hard to get an even layer of
color. The ink just goes through (not lots of it, though, but a
little). The problem may be that I print dry.
My method of registration (I don't cut kentos, but use thin pieces of
tape on the edge of the paper to hold it in place, and I print the
whole image, all colors, while the paper remains fixed in position)
prevents me from using dampened paper.
Also, Barbara, since you have a lot of experience with printing, I'd
like to ask you about Setswell Compund. I notice it makes the ink
buttery. How much Setswell would you use in relationship to the mixed
color?
I am also wondering if Kitakata paper is a wrong one to use for color
work. Sometimes I notice tiny fibers pulling away (despite using
Setswell) when I lift the paper, like peach fuzz being pulled away.
Gayle/Ohio
Message 3
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:35:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23907] Re: seeking advice on moving a press
Send Message: To this poster
Kenny, I had experience moving a press from CA to OR a few years ago
and my advice is to have it crated professionally in at least two
crates before you do anything else. We used Yellow Freight and they
brought it to our property line, but couldn't get the truck down our
driveway so my brother in law had to bring out his BobCat (which I
couldn't remember the name of and called a Billy Bob and it has been
that since) and he and my husband got it down the driveway in that
contraption. From there it was a job for three grown men and an
elephant, but we managed to get it into the studio in sections and
reassembled. One necessity, of course, was finding a shipping company
with a lift gate on their trucks. I think I recall having nightmares
every night until my baby was safe in the studio once again.
Sharri
and my advice is to have it crated professionally in at least two
crates before you do anything else. We used Yellow Freight and they
brought it to our property line, but couldn't get the truck down our
driveway so my brother in law had to bring out his BobCat (which I
couldn't remember the name of and called a Billy Bob and it has been
that since) and he and my husband got it down the driveway in that
contraption. From there it was a job for three grown men and an
elephant, but we managed to get it into the studio in sections and
reassembled. One necessity, of course, was finding a shipping company
with a lift gate on their trucks. I think I recall having nightmares
every night until my baby was safe in the studio once again.
Sharri
Message 4
From: James Bryant
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:54:29 -0600
Subject: [Baren 23908] Re: seeking advice on moving a press
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Hello Kenny,
well, you've got lots of good advice so far, but i'll throw my 2 cents
into the conversation. I've moved 3 Takach presses, whether or not you
hire movers, you will likely need some equipment, and to prepare the
press for the move.
I'm going to make a few assumptions, that this is a floor model (the
base is welded to the press) and that it is hand crank, not electric.
The 34 x 60 model probably has the larger diameter upper drum, making
this a very heavy press, and it can take 4 guys to comfortably move a
smaller press--i would think no less than 6 people to do this. I'm also
assuming you are moving it some distance.
You will want to center the press bed, and put under the drum a few
pieces of cardboard and a scrap of felt, as long as the drum, tighten
it down as tight as it will go so the bed doesn't slide during moving.
Take the crank handle off, this removes easily and will get in the way
if you leave it attached. If you need to you can remove the entire
crank case, but this is a lot of work to put back on, so only if
necessary.
If you will put it in the back of a moving truck or on a flatbed truck,
i would rent a telescoping type forklift, put scrap plywood between the
forks and press to reduce scratches.
Once the press is in/on the back of the truck, bolt it down. this is a
very top heavy piece of equipment. The Takach has holes in the base
where the "w" shape base meets the floor, i would use lag bolts and
bolt it right to the base of the truck or flatbed (most moving trucks
have wooden beds), then use industrial type strapping tie down (the
kind that tightens with a ratchet system) and go several times over the
press bed securing the press to the floor.
The Takach guys moved my first one to me and i found them very friendly
and helpful. I would give them a call for more specific advice.
Good luck,
Jim Bryant
>
> Hi ,
>
> I am a new member and...
> I am faced with the task of transporting a "new" used Takach 34 X 60 etching press...
well, you've got lots of good advice so far, but i'll throw my 2 cents
into the conversation. I've moved 3 Takach presses, whether or not you
hire movers, you will likely need some equipment, and to prepare the
press for the move.
I'm going to make a few assumptions, that this is a floor model (the
base is welded to the press) and that it is hand crank, not electric.
The 34 x 60 model probably has the larger diameter upper drum, making
this a very heavy press, and it can take 4 guys to comfortably move a
smaller press--i would think no less than 6 people to do this. I'm also
assuming you are moving it some distance.
You will want to center the press bed, and put under the drum a few
pieces of cardboard and a scrap of felt, as long as the drum, tighten
it down as tight as it will go so the bed doesn't slide during moving.
Take the crank handle off, this removes easily and will get in the way
if you leave it attached. If you need to you can remove the entire
crank case, but this is a lot of work to put back on, so only if
necessary.
If you will put it in the back of a moving truck or on a flatbed truck,
i would rent a telescoping type forklift, put scrap plywood between the
forks and press to reduce scratches.
Once the press is in/on the back of the truck, bolt it down. this is a
very top heavy piece of equipment. The Takach has holes in the base
where the "w" shape base meets the floor, i would use lag bolts and
bolt it right to the base of the truck or flatbed (most moving trucks
have wooden beds), then use industrial type strapping tie down (the
kind that tightens with a ratchet system) and go several times over the
press bed securing the press to the floor.
The Takach guys moved my first one to me and i found them very friendly
and helpful. I would give them a call for more specific advice.
Good luck,
Jim Bryant
>
> Hi ,
>
> I am a new member and...
> I am faced with the task of transporting a "new" used Takach 34 X 60 etching press...
Message 5
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:25:29 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23909] Re: seeking advice on moving a press
Send Message: To this poster
My husband moved my press. it is not a takach, but still full sized and
very heavy. He removed the bed and the wheel and the stand moved it in our
pickup. It works fine now in its new home. He did suggest that you might
bolt it down and move it with a hand truck but that it might be top heavy.
Of course you will want to tie it down regardless. They do come apart and
are not hard to reassemble.
Marilynn Smith
very heavy. He removed the bed and the wheel and the stand moved it in our
pickup. It works fine now in its new home. He did suggest that you might
bolt it down and move it with a hand truck but that it might be top heavy.
Of course you will want to tie it down regardless. They do come apart and
are not hard to reassemble.
Marilynn Smith
Message 6
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:38:07 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23910] Kitakata paper
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Gayle,
I also print dry with kitakata paper, I use lithography ink mixed with 1/4 transparent base and 1/4 setswell. I use Handschy Litho ink from Graphic Chemical, although I have used Dan Smith Litho ink with no problems in the same proportions. (It is less pigmented so that is why I no longer use it, although they denied it when I complained...but I was mixing it and I could tell it had less pigment than it used to in my previous order) I roll up the block with several passes, as thin layers give you a better surface than one heavy layer. Maybe three or four passes with a very thin layer on the roller from a very thin layer on the slab. I print on the smooth side of the paper, not the rough side. The ink is still very thin on the block. I usually print with a press using a piece of mat board in place of blankets so I get a nice flat impression. I do print one block right after the other, but I have a registration board and use a matboard kento system which works well for me. I have
printed 6 layers of ink and had none actually come through, you can see it of course but no actual ink you can touch on the back. If your transparent medium causes skipping, it might be that it is not for the ink you are using. I have never experienced this in my printing. Possibly you are not mixing the ink and transparent base enough...do it on a slab for 5 minutes with an ink knife. This seems a long time, but well mixed ink will work a lot better that ink that is sort of mixed. This could be that actual whole problem for you, just not mixing the medium into the ink well enough. The manufacturers of setswell recommend 5%...I use 25% or a bit less and have never noticed any problems with prints, even those that are 20 years old. Again, mixing the ink well is the ticket, so there is no chance of a blob of setswell going into the paper by itself. I also have not had trouble with the peach fuzz, but I see that it could happen if things got too dry. Possibly the extra setswell I am
using takes care of this problem, I don't know. Also printing on the smooth side of the paper will help. We are at 30% humidity here in the dry season and 90% now...this could also be a factor, maybe you need to have a teakettle putting a little moisture into your air.
Let me know if you have any luck with this...if you are using relief ink it already has modifiers in it so will react differently that litho ink. Every printmaker I know uses litho ink for relief....so it must be the best one. I was already using it for montoypes when I started doing relief work so just kept using it and when I asked people, everyone I knew was also using it. So there you go. Other people on baren might have different advise as we all seem to make what we are using work for us, eventually
I used kitakata paper for my calendar print, it is four colors all printed one behind the other, so if you have a nude calendar you can look at it, also the print I did of the bird for the endangered species, I think it is 5 or 6 colors printed one on top of the other. If you don't have these, let me know and I can hunt for one here in my drawers to send you so you can see how it looks.
As for moving machinery, all I know is it is scary and I stay away if I can....be very very careful if you do it yourself...rent a big forklift and go very very slowly. I figure it is worth $300 an hour not to get hurt or have anyone else hurt....dangerous stuff. Maybe they are more skilled in Chicago, it always worries me as the guys here seem to not really know what they are doing...but so far they have been successful so maybe I am just overly worried.
Best to all,
Barbara
>Barbara, I don't use a press and do use a wide wooden drawer pull for
>my main baren when printing with oil-based inks, as well as the ball
>bearing baren. I use transparenting medium (thin layers), Setswell
>Compound for color work, and Daniel Smith inks. I sometimes have to
>roll up a color more than once to get coverage as I notice
>transparenting medium doesn't just make a thin layer, but actually
>causes skipping. I have to burnish very hard to get an even layer of
>color. The ink just goes through (not lots of it, though, but a
>little). The problem may be that I print dry.
>
>Also, Barbara, since you have a lot of experience with printing, I'd
>like to ask you about Setswell Compund. I notice it makes the ink
>buttery. How much Setswell would you use in relationship to the mixed
>color?
>
>I am also wondering if Kitakata paper is a wrong one to use for color
>work. Sometimes I notice tiny fibers pulling away (despite using
>Setswell) when I lift the paper, like peach fuzz being pulled away.
>
>Gayle/Ohio
---------------------------------
I also print dry with kitakata paper, I use lithography ink mixed with 1/4 transparent base and 1/4 setswell. I use Handschy Litho ink from Graphic Chemical, although I have used Dan Smith Litho ink with no problems in the same proportions. (It is less pigmented so that is why I no longer use it, although they denied it when I complained...but I was mixing it and I could tell it had less pigment than it used to in my previous order) I roll up the block with several passes, as thin layers give you a better surface than one heavy layer. Maybe three or four passes with a very thin layer on the roller from a very thin layer on the slab. I print on the smooth side of the paper, not the rough side. The ink is still very thin on the block. I usually print with a press using a piece of mat board in place of blankets so I get a nice flat impression. I do print one block right after the other, but I have a registration board and use a matboard kento system which works well for me. I have
printed 6 layers of ink and had none actually come through, you can see it of course but no actual ink you can touch on the back. If your transparent medium causes skipping, it might be that it is not for the ink you are using. I have never experienced this in my printing. Possibly you are not mixing the ink and transparent base enough...do it on a slab for 5 minutes with an ink knife. This seems a long time, but well mixed ink will work a lot better that ink that is sort of mixed. This could be that actual whole problem for you, just not mixing the medium into the ink well enough. The manufacturers of setswell recommend 5%...I use 25% or a bit less and have never noticed any problems with prints, even those that are 20 years old. Again, mixing the ink well is the ticket, so there is no chance of a blob of setswell going into the paper by itself. I also have not had trouble with the peach fuzz, but I see that it could happen if things got too dry. Possibly the extra setswell I am
using takes care of this problem, I don't know. Also printing on the smooth side of the paper will help. We are at 30% humidity here in the dry season and 90% now...this could also be a factor, maybe you need to have a teakettle putting a little moisture into your air.
Let me know if you have any luck with this...if you are using relief ink it already has modifiers in it so will react differently that litho ink. Every printmaker I know uses litho ink for relief....so it must be the best one. I was already using it for montoypes when I started doing relief work so just kept using it and when I asked people, everyone I knew was also using it. So there you go. Other people on baren might have different advise as we all seem to make what we are using work for us, eventually
I used kitakata paper for my calendar print, it is four colors all printed one behind the other, so if you have a nude calendar you can look at it, also the print I did of the bird for the endangered species, I think it is 5 or 6 colors printed one on top of the other. If you don't have these, let me know and I can hunt for one here in my drawers to send you so you can see how it looks.
As for moving machinery, all I know is it is scary and I stay away if I can....be very very careful if you do it yourself...rent a big forklift and go very very slowly. I figure it is worth $300 an hour not to get hurt or have anyone else hurt....dangerous stuff. Maybe they are more skilled in Chicago, it always worries me as the guys here seem to not really know what they are doing...but so far they have been successful so maybe I am just overly worried.
Best to all,
Barbara
>Barbara, I don't use a press and do use a wide wooden drawer pull for
>my main baren when printing with oil-based inks, as well as the ball
>bearing baren. I use transparenting medium (thin layers), Setswell
>Compound for color work, and Daniel Smith inks. I sometimes have to
>roll up a color more than once to get coverage as I notice
>transparenting medium doesn't just make a thin layer, but actually
>causes skipping. I have to burnish very hard to get an even layer of
>color. The ink just goes through (not lots of it, though, but a
>little). The problem may be that I print dry.
>
>Also, Barbara, since you have a lot of experience with printing, I'd
>like to ask you about Setswell Compund. I notice it makes the ink
>buttery. How much Setswell would you use in relationship to the mixed
>color?
>
>I am also wondering if Kitakata paper is a wrong one to use for color
>work. Sometimes I notice tiny fibers pulling away (despite using
>Setswell) when I lift the paper, like peach fuzz being pulled away.
>
>Gayle/Ohio
---------------------------------
Message 7
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:52:32 EST
Subject: [Baren 23911] Seeking Carole Baker
Send Message: To this poster
Will Carole Baker please e-mail me off line.
Carol L
Carol L
Message 8
From: JMartin906 # aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:50:13 EST
Subject: [Baren 23912] new printer's questions
Send Message: To this poster
I am relatively new at printing in the Japanese style and I am in agreement
with the person who said it worked for them to mix the rice paste and paint (I
use gouache or water color paints) in a saucer. I can imagine if I ever got
"good" I might want to do it the way the experts suggest, but there are so many
things to think about when starting to print this way that I am taking the
easy way out on this.
When I make an edition I put the prints in a tablet of newsprint. Just
closing the tablet puts some pressure on the prints to stay flat and then when I am
done with a color or quitting for a while, I put some books or a big lino
block on top of the tablet to weight it down. If there is a little too much ink
on a print, it is blotted by the newsprint, which is also a plus for me. As
soon the prints are flat and dry I take them out of the tablet. I don't store
them in that acid environment. Sometimes I keep the prints damp all the way
through the process (in a plastic bag), but if I am making a lot of prints, I
do let them dry between -at least- some of the colors and then rewet them to
start again.
I know these are things are probably "cheating" but they have made it easier
for me to feel, as a beginner, that I have some control of the process.
Suzi
with the person who said it worked for them to mix the rice paste and paint (I
use gouache or water color paints) in a saucer. I can imagine if I ever got
"good" I might want to do it the way the experts suggest, but there are so many
things to think about when starting to print this way that I am taking the
easy way out on this.
When I make an edition I put the prints in a tablet of newsprint. Just
closing the tablet puts some pressure on the prints to stay flat and then when I am
done with a color or quitting for a while, I put some books or a big lino
block on top of the tablet to weight it down. If there is a little too much ink
on a print, it is blotted by the newsprint, which is also a plus for me. As
soon the prints are flat and dry I take them out of the tablet. I don't store
them in that acid environment. Sometimes I keep the prints damp all the way
through the process (in a plastic bag), but if I am making a lot of prints, I
do let them dry between -at least- some of the colors and then rewet them to
start again.
I know these are things are probably "cheating" but they have made it easier
for me to feel, as a beginner, that I have some control of the process.
Suzi
Message 9
From: eli griggs
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:25:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23913] Re: Shunga?
Send Message: To this poster
Depends on if'n your drinking that store bought hooch
or Uncle Bob's backyard finest!
Eli
or Uncle Bob's backyard finest!
Eli
Message 10
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:25:10 EST
Subject: [Baren 23914] 2ed shunga in house
Send Message: To this poster
come on people only 2 in the house so far mine and mikes i have
had reports but not enough so hurry up folks.
john center
had reports but not enough so hurry up folks.
john center
Message 11
From: Catherine Dreiss
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:28:22 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Subject: [Baren 23915] Re: seeking advice on moving a press
Send Message: To this poster
on 1/17/04 11:20 AM, Kenny Walton at KENNYWALTON@alltel.net wrote:
> I am faced with the task of transporting a "new" used Takach 34 X 60 etching press...
> I'd be very grateful for any experiences any of you might be able to share.
> Thanks in advance ! Kenny
Kenny: I am a frequent lurker and infrequent contributor to baren, but I do have some personal experience in what you're doing. Last Spring, I had the winning bid on a Takach etching press that is even larger than yours. It took me months to set up the move, which was from San Francisco to Des Moines.
My story is happy in the end, because the press is safe and sound in my studio, but the journey there was arduous and expensive. It is possible to disassemble the press, and if you call Joe Pool at Takach, he will send you the instructions. He can also give you the name of the company they use to ship their presses which are assembled on their pallets and then fully crated. Any truck you use will need a huge lift gate, or you're going to need a fork lift.
I ended up using a "high value crater and shipper" who did have more experience with moving unusual objects, and they did do a great job in the end. I keep saying "in the end" because I became very mistrustful of the movers who kept on finding new and interesting ways to add charges to the process. Do not try to find a mover via the internet...there are professional scammers out there who will pick up the press but will not deliver until you can pay those additional charges. You can't be too careful - provide photos of the press, where it is going to be picked up, where it is going to be delivered, etc. Accept the fact that the "quote" is only an "estimate."
Yours truly, Caye (who suddenly is having an anxiety attack remembering the stress of the move!)
Catherine Dreiss
> I am faced with the task of transporting a "new" used Takach 34 X 60 etching press...
> I'd be very grateful for any experiences any of you might be able to share.
> Thanks in advance ! Kenny
Kenny: I am a frequent lurker and infrequent contributor to baren, but I do have some personal experience in what you're doing. Last Spring, I had the winning bid on a Takach etching press that is even larger than yours. It took me months to set up the move, which was from San Francisco to Des Moines.
My story is happy in the end, because the press is safe and sound in my studio, but the journey there was arduous and expensive. It is possible to disassemble the press, and if you call Joe Pool at Takach, he will send you the instructions. He can also give you the name of the company they use to ship their presses which are assembled on their pallets and then fully crated. Any truck you use will need a huge lift gate, or you're going to need a fork lift.
I ended up using a "high value crater and shipper" who did have more experience with moving unusual objects, and they did do a great job in the end. I keep saying "in the end" because I became very mistrustful of the movers who kept on finding new and interesting ways to add charges to the process. Do not try to find a mover via the internet...there are professional scammers out there who will pick up the press but will not deliver until you can pay those additional charges. You can't be too careful - provide photos of the press, where it is going to be picked up, where it is going to be delivered, etc. Accept the fact that the "quote" is only an "estimate."
Yours truly, Caye (who suddenly is having an anxiety attack remembering the stress of the move!)
Catherine Dreiss