Baren Digest Monday, 27 October 2003 Volume 25 : Number 2421 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:57:08 EST Subject: [Baren 23212] Re: Printers in need of a press. philip i couldnt access either link georga ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:04:07 EST Subject: [Baren 23213] Re: Printers in need of a press. change the "," to a "." and the link works but a book nipping press does not work very well better to use a printing press For what you would spend for a book binding press you could get a proofing press john ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 09:16:20 EST Subject: [Baren 23214] Re: Printers in need of a press. is a proofing press the same as an etching press? ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:34:15 -0600 Subject: [Baren 23215] Re: Printers in need of a press. No--A proofing press is built to proof type and type high blocks. A cylinder rolls over the type or block pressing the paper against the printing surface and is set for minimal pressure. The press bed doesn't move. In an etching press the press bed moves between two cylinders and is designed for exerting great pressure, although in the case of woodblocks you can ease up on the pressure needed. One practical difference between these designs is that an etching press is more forgiving than a proofing press. For instance, a block can be warped and still print well on an etching press, but with a proofing press you'd have to compensate by creating what is called "make-ready". Myron ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 08:57:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 23216] Re: Printers in need of a press. On the question of proofing press vs book binding press, I beg to differ with John. I print woodblock, oil based and water based; alumigraph plates; direct nature prints; monoprints; and linoblock; and do embossing ... all on a book binding press. Works like a charm. Works as well or better than my etching press for printing relief, though not as well for heavy embossing on dry paper. Certainly it is much easier than printing by hand. In concept and construction, a book binding press just is a small platen press that uses a screw mechanism rather than a lever mechanism to apply pressure. Book binding presses are MUCH easier to find than proofing presses ... there were a lot more of them made. I have found them in junk stores, antique stores, used book stores, and auctions. You can find many of them on Ebay. I have never seen a proofing press for sale anywhere but at a dealer in used printing presses. Just my experience ... Bookbinding presses are easier to move. My book binding presses are all cast iron. I can pick up any of my book binding presses and put them on the seat or floor in a car and take them to a workshop, no problem. Or I can set them up on a table in the front yard for public demonstrations with kids. That's one person to move one press in one trip. Just pick it up and walk. My female sweetie would have trouble doing it by herself, but she would have a LOT more trouble moving a proofing press. And in my experience book binding presses are cheaper than proofing presses. Sure, I hear stories of people getting presses of all sorts for free or for the cost of hauling them away. I have heard such stories about proofing presses, platen presses, book binding presses, and I even know someone who was given an etching press. But I am never around for such deals, it seems. When I investigate buying presses, I find that proofing presses are not as cheap as book binding presses. Further, on a book binding press, you do not have to worry about the thickness of your block ... you can print really thick stuff or really thin stuff. I can print blocks that are 2 inches or more in thickness or 1/4 inch in thickness. I have even had kids make hand prints on plastic bags and printed that quite nicely. You never have to worry about getting things up to precisely "type height". And if your block is not quite flat, you can put a bit of felt over the paper and presto ... prints just fine. No fiddling around with tricky make-ready, etc. And you can use papers of variable thickness without having to make any adjustment in the press or the block. Some proofing presses were made to handle large dimension paper, while book binding presses tend to be smaller. My largest book binding press has a bed of 10 inches x 15 inches. But I can print 15 inches by whatever just by making a sandwich of a couple of pieces of MDF or plywood. Because rotary proofing presses had built in mechanisms for holding the paper, it seems easier to avoid registration problems. But you still have to get the blocks lined up just right for multiple block prints. There are very simple ways to do the same thing on a book binding press. Just buy or make a couple of lithographers registration pins (I made mine from plastic dowel glued to thin plastic tabs) Use a standard 1/4 inch office hole punch and its edge stop to punch precisely located holes in one end of your paper. Use a plexiglass "sliding board" to lay out your block and paper on before sliding the whole thing into the press. Use corner stops for aligning your block on the sliding board. With your block positioned on the sliding board, position a trial sheet of paper. Put the lithographers pins in place through the holes in the paper and tape the tabs of the pins down to the sliding board. The sliding board must stick out beyond the platen of the press so the pins are not under the platen. Then you can put the same piece of paper in place over the pins and remove it as often as you like. Also, any other sheet of paper punched in the same way will align in the same way. You can put the block in place and remove it as often as you like. And just as with the proofing press, if you align multiple blocks correctly, multiple block registration is similarly a snap. If you do not like corner stops for your blocks, you can use the pins for aligning the blocks by attaching a strip of mylar to one end of your block and using the hole punch to punch registration holes in the mylar. After printing, just trim off the registration holes on your paper, just as with lithography. Frankly, I fail to see much benefit in using proofing presses. You can do good work on either one. But I think the book binding press is more flexible. Cheers ....... Charles (book binding press fan) you wrote: >but a book nipping press does not work very well better to use a >printing press > >For what you would spend for a book binding press you could get a proofing >press > >john ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:39:03 -0600 Subject: [Baren 23217] Re: Printers in need of a press. you wrote: >Bookbinding presses are easier to move. My book binding presses are all >cast iron. I can pick up any of my book binding presses and put them on >the seat or floor in a car and take them to a workshop, no problem. > > That's one person to move one press in one trip. Just pick it up and >walk. My female sweetie would have trouble doing it by herself, but she >would have a LOT more trouble moving a proofing press. > >My largest book binding press has a bed of 10 inches x 15 inches. But I >can print 15 inches by whatever just by making a sandwich of a couple of >pieces of MDF or plywood. Your "sweetie" would have to be a weight lifter to pick up a 10 x 15 inch ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:06:50 EST Subject: [Baren 23218] Re: Printers in need of a press. thank you all for this information i had been wondering what the difference was between presses and now i know georga ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:43:39 EST Subject: [Baren 23219] proofing press A binding press or nipping press was designed for book binding, a proof press was designed for printing on inked type or blocks. That you can make it work is a different matter. Now a self inking vandercook needs a solid floor and working space. But it prints as well as any letterpress press. It was made so commercial printers could proof jobs without using the high speed press but they need a press that would work as well as any high speed press in printing quality. A non inking vandercook is good for proofing type and or blocks and prints about 80% was well as self inking vandercook. About the only really portable printing tool is either a wooden spoon or a baren. On cost I got my non inking vandercook for $50 and $50 to move it. I even had an offer of a vandercook 4 for free if I would move it but just did not have a place to put it, A non inking vandercook can be put into an apartment as it is about the same weight as a refrig, but the self inking one needs a strong floor. Registration on a self inking press is as close to perfect as you can get, remember they were made to proof blocks such as four color photo plates which had to have perfect registration or you would get a moray pattern or the colors would be way off. One time I printed 500 copies of four colors in one evening with a vandercook 4 and did not have to toss any for bad regestration. I know I should have use the large c & p press but those things can be dangerous. I know the Washington hand presses are pretty fun to see and use but even they don't work better. john of the furry press ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:12:11 -0800 Subject: [Baren 23220] Re: proofing press John, Congratulations on getting those deals on your presses. As I said, I never seem to be able to find them myself. As I mentioned, I am always envious of such stories. I certainly would not turn down a $50 or a free proofing press. I have just never encountered such a deal. The best one I know of is my friend who got a free, high quality etching press, with a steel bed 18 x 36 inches, all in perfect condition. I absolutely agree with you that registration is easier on a self inking press. But if you set up a similar process on a hand press as I described (hand platen press, lithographic press, etching press, or book binding press), it works much the same way. And I fully agree that if you want to run an edition of 500, it is much faster on a standard printing press designed for such large print runs. But then, I do not do that sort of volume work. Of course it would be faster still to print one copy and do color xerox ;-)}}} ... but then there is something about the quality ...!!!! Cheers .... Charles At 01:43 PM 10/26/03 -0500, you wrote: Registration on a self inking press is as close to perfect as you can get, remember they were made to proof blocks such as four color photo plates which had to have perfect registration or you would get a moray pattern or the colors would be way off. One time I printed 500 copies of four colors in one evening with a vandercook 4 and did not have to toss any for bad regestration. I know I should have use the large c & p press but those things can be dangerous. ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 11:17:00 -0800 Subject: [Baren 23221] Re: Printers in need of a press. Hello Myron, My 10 x 15 inch cast iron bookbinding press weighs 75 pounds. I would not want to run down the street with it, but it certainly does not give me a hernia to pick it up or to move it. Cheers ...... Charles >you wrote: >Your "sweetie" would have to be a weight lifter to pick up a 10 x 15 inch >cast iron bookbinding press. ------------------------------ From: "MPereira" Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:31:52 -0200 Subject: [Baren 23222] Re: Printers in need of a press. Well, everybody, I need a press to. Can be one little to print only wood, lino and metal, I have several woods and metals to be printed and have not a press. Any suggestions??? ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:51:51 -0800 Subject: [Baren 23223] Re: Printers in need of a press. If you are printing only relief: 1) Look around for a small book binding press. 2) Make a bottle jack press ... I can send you the general description if you cannot find it in the archive ... or make a simple screw press of the sort on the web sites recently posted. The hardware is easily purchased on line, and cheaply from Lee Valley Tools. 3) You can print very well with a small mechanics hydraulic press ... for sale in tool supply stores. Use a "bed" and "platten" of thick MDF or plywood. 4) Or use a marble rolling pin ... seriously, this works quite well. Use stiff arms and your upper body weight. Put the inked block on a table. Place the paper on top. Cover with a couple of layers of thin felt. Then run over it with the rolling pin. If the blocks are really small, or if you tend to wobble a lot, put down two "rails" the same thickness of your block, for the ends of the rolling pin to rest on. 5) Or use a "walking press" ... used a lot by nature printers. For blocks, I would just put a couple of layers of thin felt bought from the fabric store down on the floor. Lay the paper on top. Ink up your block and place it on the paper. Then just step on the back of the block. That will probably apply more pressure than a small press would anyway. You mentioned "metal plates". If you want to print intaglio, you almost have to have an etching press to get reasonable results, unless the plates are very small. Cheers ...... Charles At 11:31 PM 10/26/03 -0200, you wrote: Well, everybody, I need a press to. Can be one little to print only wood, lino and metal, I have several woods and metals to be printed and have not a press. Any suggestions??? ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:59:59 EST Subject: [Baren 23224] Re: Printers in need of a press. Look to see if you have a used printing eq. dealer in your area. You should be able to find a used proofing press there or on e-bay or on an artist book web list. and if it is sold as a used press it will be much cheaper than anything sold as artist equpiment. my proofing press cost 100$ 50 for it and 50 for shiping my very small etching press cost $1200. but it was new and sold as artist equpment. Funny thing i don't even use the etching press now. Given that the proofing press is solid iron i could build the hight of the bed so as to be able to print an small etching on it. If I put etching blankets on top of a small copper plate i am sure it would have enough pressure to print. john center ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:18:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 23225] Press boundary Georga... Here is that press address again. It works, look at the CASING PRESS section. WWW.TemperProductions.com Looks pretty easy if you have a weekend to spare! Good luck Georga, Philip ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V25 #2421 *****************************