Baren Digest Sunday, 19 October 2003 Volume 25 : Number 2412 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GWohlken Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:12:47 -0400 Subject: [Baren 23109] Bound or Unbound Pillow Books For bound pillow books, I would be willing to help John, understanding it's a large task and time consuming. John's in Chicago and I'm in Ohio. I think it would take more than a weekend to do this sort of thing, that's why I suggested the album where we put our own prints in. Another possibility would be some kind of instructions for each participant to bind their own. However, if we do this, would it work better, then if everyone used the same kind of paper? John, what do you think? Do Baren bookbinders have some ideas about this? I admit I have bound soft cover books and have sewn them with linen thread in a traditional way, and used pva and wheat paste, etc. I'm not clear about the type of binding John suggested. John, could you elaborate how this is done? Before we start our prints, we need to know how we're going about doing them, especially if they are to be bound. Not everyone has a press, so some papers may not work for people who hand print with a wooden spoon, for instance. If we need uniformity for bookbinding, then we may have more of a problem having this book come to fruition. We need to remember how the exchanges often bring differences in sizes. Would we have to cut into the images on some of the slightly larger ones, in order to have uniform size? What I'm suggesting, I guess, is if we decide to bind these, the images would have to have exact measurements, similar paper, and a pre decided way to orient them on the page. And then, after all that, if we receive images that don't fit the scale, would we have to send them back to the disappointed artist? Gees, I think I'm talking myself into the album, though I'd love to see a bound book. Okay, other opinions, please. Also, I have another question. Since these are shunga and we all know what that means, will the fact that these will be showing in the gallery with our names attached for all the world, including Aunt Ruth, will this hold back our freedom of approach to the subject? I kind of don't want to feel held back. How do others feel about this? ~Gayle ------------------------------ From: b.patera#att.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:06:36 +0000 Subject: [Baren 23110] Re: Bound or Unbound Pillow Books Reading recent e-mails it seems this pillow book exchange is getting complicated.... My two cents worth on the subject is that the exchange be unbound, we work in any format that fits the paper, and on the paper of our choice..... with those who choose to bind their prints doing so themselves. Barbara Patera ------------------------------ From: b.patera#att.net Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:15:04 +0000 Subject: [Baren 23111] Re: Printmakinglinks Hi Mike, Thanks for answering my question about recruiting Baren members for a PrintmakingLinks exchange.... and sorry it took so long to get back to you. Have decided that this is a BAD idea ..... if there isn't enough interest in the other group then so be it. Regards, Barbara Patera ------------------------------ From: Emma Jane Hogbin Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:37:30 -0400 Subject: [Baren 23113] Re: Bound or Unbound Pillow Books On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 10:12:47AM -0400, GWohlken wrote: Do Baren bookbinders have some ideas about this? I would recommend setting a page size now. Another very important consideration is the gutter. If everyone decides they want to print right to the edge of the page you could easily paste a "gutter" onto the page (but then it would be a different measurement and ...). So I would say that everyone should agree on a page size AND a left margin (for the gutter). For the binding I would recommend a simple post binding. A Japanese stab binding also wouldn't take a lot of time. The post binding that I've done is for a wedding album. There are pictures with the posts showing on this page: http://strangelittlegirl.com/books/albums/dk-hinges.html for Japanese bindings... http://www.dreamingmind.com/gallery/framealb.html http://staffcentral.brighton.ac.uk/graeme/Bookbinding%20web%20site/bookart/ba_sewn.html somewhere I have a URL with instructions. Check my list of bookmarks: www.emmajane.net/assets/bookmarks.html Hope that helps, emma - -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] ------------------------------ From: Sharri LaPierre Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:36:48 -0700 Subject: [Baren 23114] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2411 To all Bareners in the War and Peace exchange - My most humble apologies and abundant groveling for sending the wrong size print. It has been pointed out that I forgot to cut the top edge to the proper dimension - shame on me. I guess I was just so happy to have them finished and anxious to get that one more deadline out of the way that I neglected to do the last step. :-( So, if all of you will just trim 1" off the top edge you will find the little bugger will fit nicely in the case for which it was intended. I promise not to make that mistake again. :-/ Italy and Sicily were beautiful and I'm filled to the brim with visions of beautiful art and scenery. I had hoped to get together with Colleen Corradi, but we were unable to get our schedules to coincide. Maybe next time! Meanwhile, I hauled a 2lb. jar of Planter's Peanuts back and forth from here to there. Sorry, Colleen, guess my husband will enjoy the nuts intended for you! It is good to be back home, but I could have done without the cold I caught on the way home. Bummers. I can hardly wait to get back in printing shape!! BTW, I came home to 350 emails, so deleted most of the digest entries. I hope I haven't missed signing up for the Shunga exchange. I really want to do that one, and any format is fine with me: bound book, not bound book, whatever. I will have my hands full just trying to follow the directions - Best to all, Sharri ------------------------------ From: Jsf73#aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:55:28 EDT Subject: [Baren 23115] Re: Bound or Unbound Pillow Books Hi everyone. I just thought I would say hello and add my two cents regarding the pillow book. I prefer unbound prints. Failing that I then say an album format over a binding chosen abitrarily by someone else.... The reason is simple, I am a picky SOB and I prefer to bind a book myself and get just the look I want. However given that the format for most shunga was a book format it would be appropriate to display the work in that format and the easiest method would be an album. There is a method that would allow both relative ease for the coordinators and customizing for those who choose to make their books individualized.... I recently attended the Art of the Book '03 opening in Toronto and the subsequent book fair. At the book fair a woman was selling photo type album inserts without covers, to be attached to a bookcover of your own design. Anyone with a modicum of skill can make a bookcover. The inserts measure 13.5 inch by 9.5 inch and have attached flyleaves for gluing on a cover. The inserts hold 30 prints with a silk paper interleaved to protect your prints. The insert is 100% archival glued up with PVA glue and paper backed mull and headband. I am sure these are not too hard to come by. Of course everyone would have to make their own covers. I of course would prefer to get prints as they are from the artist. Then I could decide the best method for constructing an appropriate binding. If people are interested I can contact the woman and inquire as to where she got the album inserts...assuming I can find her business card given the mess around here. p.s. To: John 'of the rigid opinions on engraving printing methods' Center... I see the Cubbies are out of the playoffs now (sorry dude) so have you decided on your travel plans yet? I am wating to see if you are going to visit before I finalize some plans myself. Depending on when you would be going thru town you could catch the Art of the Book until November 2nd, or Collage 2003 which runs between November 14 to 23. Of interest is the fact Mary Green will be showing 6 pieces of her work at Collage 2003 although she will not be attending the event itself... Too bad as it looks to be a great show and the opening is going to be semi-formal. Take care everyone, John Furr ------------------------------ From: Marcia Roberts-deutsch Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:15:58 -1000 (HST) Subject: [Baren 23116] Re: Shunga bound books vs boxes or albums I may have missed something in the earlier discussion, but I was not aware of what seems to be a third option (after boxes, or blank albums into which our prints could be tipped)--actually binding the prints themselves directly into book form. Personally, I think this is the least desirable alternative if, in fact, it is being considered. Marcia Morse On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Bette Wappner wrote: I prefer bound books because of the tradition. but i realize the work involved. however, i think at this point i'd like to hear from those people on the volunteer committee list and hear what they want to do. their word should be the final decision. i'll remain flexible and thankful for an exchange of beautiful art by beautiful people. one last comment...if its not too late, could we set an image area with a border suitable for binding, and a paper thickness? bette. __________________________ Ray, I think you have made a good point about the difficulties in trying to bind the Shunga prints into book form. Also, we don't all use the same strength of paper, and I imagine it would be an uneven book for just that, not to mention the different ways people do their prints (bleed, vs margins). The time it would take to bind would mean probably a larger committee of workers as it would be a huge and time-consuming job for one person to accomplish. ~Gayle Ray Hudson wrote: I would prefer the option of purchasing an album to mount the prints in. To have them bound would entail, I suspect, a slightly larger size or at least allowance for a binding edge and they would probably need to be oriented in the same direction (all vertical or all horizontal.) Some prints, in past exchanges, have gone to the very edge of the paper. Colleen Corradi wrote: I personally would love to have my book bound rather than having a blank album onto which prints should be stuck. ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:43:58 -0500 Subject: [Baren 23117] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2411 Dear Sharri -- the shunga exchange sign-up began October 1, but there is currently only one on the waiting list, so you can still sign up at http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html and you have a pretty good chance of being bumped up into the exchange if a couple of people drop out... - -- Mike At 09:36 AM 10/18/2003 -0700, Sharri LaPierre wrote: I hope I haven't missed signing up for the Shunga exchange. I really want to do that one, and any format is fine with me: bound book, not bound book, whatever. I will have my hands full just trying to follow the directions - Best to all, Sharri Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:20:27 EDT Subject: [Baren 23118] pillowbook vs prints I personally like the album idea. Since the suggestion of the album could be voluntary it would fit every ones idea of how it should be done. We could order the album like we have ordered the boxes or if you wanted them loose you could get a box. Given there seems to be a number of different ideas and the album or loose could be handled in the same way. I feel that would work the best and be the easiest for me as well. In my opinion sending the prints back loose with an album, box, etc., and letting each of you tip the prints in the album or left loose would make everybody happy. Given some of you will want to put them in an album and thus they will be viewed as pages in this format we should decide a format either horizontal or vertical. Other than that I see not problems. John (behind the green door-furry press) Center ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:44:26 -0500 Subject: [Baren 23119] Re: pillowbook vs prints John writes: "In my opinion sending the prints back loose with an album, box, etc., and letting each of you tip the prints in the album or left loose would make everybody happy." I agree with John, if David can get us traditional japanese albums (or accordion style) with blank pages (for tipping in) I vote for that, else boxes as in previous exchanges...all of course optional if someone wants to opt out... To have one or more coordinators put together a complete book w stiching sounds like a lot of work. Page size is set at chuban, right ? JULIO ------------------------------ From: "MPereira" Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 23:36:57 -0200 Subject: [Baren 23120] Re: Baren Digest V25 #2411 ol‡, Mike, estive olhando a lista de participantes da exchange 19 http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html e est‡ uma lista maravilhosa. Estou exultando pois vou ter uma gravura da Maria Arango.Wow!!! Pena que faltou o David.... Hi, Mike, I was looking to exchange 19 participants list well it's wonderful....a lot of wonderful artists that I know from here but always go to their websites. Weel, I just can't imagine that I'm gonna have one from the great Maria Arango!!!! Wow!!! I'm missing Dave on the list. Mike, did you start your print already? Or have made any study? Show wht youre doing on the webcam Difficult theme.... Do the figures must look like Japanese? ------------------------------ From: "Janet Warner Montgomery" Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:39:46 -0400 Subject: [Baren 23121] Re: pillowbook vs prints why do I feel like John (behind the green door-furry press) Center will want to make this a yearly affair, so to speak?jan ---------------------------- End of Baren Digest V25 #2412 *****************************