Baren Digest Thursday, 25 September 2003 Volume 24 : Number 2383 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie#aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:11:17 EDT Subject: [Baren 22865] lino question Hi folks, I know this is a woodblock place but I also know a number of you work in linocuts as well. A fellow printmaker was asking me about transferring xerox to linoleum. I have used citrusolve for transferring to woodblock but I wasn't sure if it works for linoleum. Any suggestions that I can give her? thanks very much Sarah ------------------------------ From: MccarthyDb#aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:14:53 EDT Subject: [Baren 22866] Re: lino question nice prints sarah!! (meant to say it a while back but been busy at the gallery) one tip on xerox- make sure it's a fresh xerox- old ones that have been sitting around don't transfer nearly as well- there is always acetone but it's toxic as all get out -bobette ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:06:47 EDT Subject: [Baren 22867] Re: lino question lino should work the same as wood. I use lacquer thinner which evaporates quickly as I am allergic to citrus products. (make sure you do this out side and use rubber gloves). I am not sure how quickly the citrus solvent evaporates which might be an issue with lino as it would not absorb any of the solvent. john center ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:18:35 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22868] Re: lino question I use a fresh xerox and a hot iron, usually works like a charm with a TONER copier. It does not work with a laser jet that I have found. d. dew ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:22:16 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22869] Re: Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Louise. >I haven't had any luck with the micro abrasive sheets >Brad You have my sympathy re; sharpening tools. I have been trying to sharpen tools now for four years and still have not found the magic touch. You know those cheap wood carving tools that you can buy for about six dollars? Well, now I use them until they are dull, then throw them away and buy a new set. The only way I know of to have sharp woodblock tools. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:40:15 EDT Subject: [Baren 22870] Re: Transferring Hi About transferring from fresh Xerox : There is something called Print It that may be available from a hobby or craft shop. Citrasol - may be in a Health Food Store, so not hazardous. Also OK Orange- nontoxic This was is in my notes so I have no first- hand info. I use Saral (like carbon paper, for transferring my images ) Happy Hanga Day to all , second Day of Autumn. I have just plucked three Sassafras leaves for another print. The Sassafras is an oddity in that it is the only tree I know of that has 3 differently shaped leaves. That I think can be made interesting in a print. Carol L. Irvington, NY ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:50:22 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22871] Re: lino question Hi, What's citrsulove? Sounds like it could save me a lot of time. And where do you get it? Myron ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:56:35 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22872] Re: lino question Really, lacquer thinner never works for me, how does it work? d. dew From: FurryPress >lino should work the same as wood. I use lacquer thinner which evaporates >quickly as I am allergic to citrus products. (make sure you do this out side >and use rubber gloves). I am not sure how quickly the citrus solvent >evaporates which might be an issue with lino as it would not absorb any of >the solvent. > >john center > ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:11:11 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22873] Re: Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Louise. I haven't had any luck with the micro abrasive sheets In a book I have, it reveals that several respected Japanese artists use box cutters with the snap off blades. Of course that does not give you u-gouges, but you can work around that by cutting V-s with the box cutter and using flat chisels (much easier to sharpen) for the major clearing. Cheers ..... Charles ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 08:13:49 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22874] Re: lino question Myron, Here in Canada, use a product called TKO Orange. It is available in health food stores, particularly in Life Styles Markets. I buy it here in Victoria and have bought it in Saskatoon this summer. Cheers .... Charles > >What's citrsulove? Sounds like it could save me a lot of time. And where >do you get it? Myron ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:26:00 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22875] Re: Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Louise. I haven't had any luck with the micro abrasive sheets" Charles Good news re; the box cutters with snap off blades. A friend of mine who once owned an art supply store gave me a box of snap off cutters, about 100 of them. That should last me a few days!!! Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:19:42 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22876] Re: Thanks for confirming my suspicions, Louise. I haven't had any luck with the micro abrasive sheets Dear Jeanne and all who are discarding your tools: Please do NOT discard your old dull tools!!!! Send them to me!!! Write me off-list and I'll send you my address and some $$ to more than offset your postage costs!!! Tools really are easy to sharpen if you have the 'right' sharpening tools. I've used a LOT of different stuff, but right now my preferences are: In studio: slow moving power driven fine water stone on a Reliant brand (cheap) wet/dry electric grinder. This is one of those combinations grinders which includes a horizontal wheel which rotates at about 100 rpm. I use it with a water drip to reshape a tool which has broken or been burnished out of shape. It's so easy! I hold the tool at the proper angle (about 21 degrees usually) and let the wet stone turn under it with the stone running away from the edge -- on gouges I rotate the tool along its radius while maintaining the correct bevel angle. Then I use a bench grinder with an inexpensive cloth wheel to which I have applied a relatively coarse honing compound. Again, I am careful to hold the tool at the correct angle against the tangent of the wheel and hone the tool to a razor edge. After honing the bevel I apply the tool very briefly so that the inside is de-burred. Just a touch so as not to deform the hardened steel side of the tool. I can put a razor edge on a tool in good shape in about half a second and repair a tool with a broken edge in a couple of minutes this way. Travelling: DMT diamond stones (not stones, but rather diamond embedded perforated metal in ceramic/plastic support) are my favorite -- I carry two stones with different grits on each side, so four grits: 1200, 600, 300, 150 or thereabouts. They cut VERY fast and seem never to wear out or change shape. Same care of the angle of the tool against the blade (and take care that this angle remains) I usually sharpen gouges by rocking them parallel to the edge, bull nose chisels, skew knives (toh) and V-gouges by moving perpendicular to the edge. After 1200, I pull the tool across a piece of leather saturated with the same honing compound pulling the tool away from the sharp edge. If it leaves a black streak on the leather, I know I'm cutting well. A few strokes polishes the edge to a mirror finish and tools cut very smoothly for a long time. The main problems people seem to have with sharpening is that they quit or move to a finer grit while the edge is still round (before it has become sharp) and/or they rock the tool as they move it so that the angle of the tool against the stone varies from, say 15 degrees to say 30 degrees instead of remaining at a constant 21 to 23 degrees. There's a nice tutorial here: http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html if you're interested in studying up! - -- Mike At 10:22 AM 9/24/2003 -0400, you wrote: Brad You have my sympathy re; sharpening tools. I have been trying to sharpen tools now for four years and still have not found the magic touch. You know those cheap wood carving tools that you can buy for about six dollars? Well, now I use them until they are dull, then throw them away and buy a new set. The only way I know of to have sharp woodblock tools. Jeanne N. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:39:40 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22877] Re: lino question Dan Dew wrote: >Really, lacquer thinner never works for me, how does it work? Toner is actually not optimized for transferring images from paper to wood or metal or linoleum, but rather for electrostatically transfering a high contrast image to paper. Toner is usually (about 10%) carbon black pigment encapsulated in (about 90%) thermoplastic grains. The thermoplastic is designed to 'melt' into copy paper at a relatively low temperature. But different manufacturers use different thermoplastics and the toners are constantly being improved, so even within one manufacturer there is no guarantee of getting the same stuff... As a general rule, the thermoplastics used are usually at least partially soluble in citrus oils (wintergreen, citrusolve hand cleaner, etc.), acetone, lacquer thinner, etc. and, if the iron is hot enough, you can re-melt the toner in a copy in order to effect a transfer. A good cocktail if you have adequate ventilation seems to be 1/2 acetone to 1/2 lacquer thinner. Different brands of lacquer thinner also contain VERY different ingredients, so if you are getting poor results, changing brands can sometimes make a dramatic difference! For transfer of a toner image to a non-absorbent surface like linoleum or aluminum (test to make sure your linoleum is unaffected by the solvent/s) I have obtained very clean and clear results this way: On the bed of an intaglio press, place a piece of blotter paper which has been saturated with solvent (I usually use straight lacquer thinner). The blotter must not be shiny-wet, but just evenly 'damp'. The less porous the receiving surface, the less damp the blotter must be in order to avoid 'running' of the image. On top of the blotter, face up, goes the toner original from copy machine or laser printer. HALF TONES DO NOT TRANSFER WELL -- USE A HIGH CONTRAST IMAGE FOR BEST RESULTS. Then the media (lino block, wood block, metal litho plate, another piece of paper, etc.) face down on the original. Then blankets as usual and run through the press under relatively light pressure. Voila! Here's a very good lithography-oriented tutorial on the subject by Nick Semenoff: http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/toner.htm - -- Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:49:08 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22878] Tools For years, I've used number 24 Xacto blades, which can be honed while in use and last and last. As for the u-gouge simulation, it all depends on what you want to achieve. A good sharp u-gouge can be used in an almost pencil-like manner and give a fluidity and spontaneity not possible with a straight edge. I use Lee Valley's "Japanese Detail Carving Tools", which are perfectly shaped and razor sharp. If you hone them periodically while you work, they will maintain their edge. Then, since they are so cheap, you can toss them out after their bevel has gotten too short from honing. For honing use their green honing compound on wood, which others bareners have written about. Or you can use the honing compound on and old leather belt--attach one end to your workbench and pull it relatively taut and strop the tool--the point here is that you can't do too much damage to the tool since the belt has flex; that is, it's less likely to change the shape of the tool than a hard sharpening surface. Myron >At 10:11 AM 24/09/2003, you wrote: >In a book I have, it reveals that several respected Japanese artists use >box cutters with the snap off blades. Of course that does not give you >u-gouges, but you can work around that by cutting V-s with the box cutter >and using flat chisels (much easier to sharpen) for the major clearing. > >Cheers ..... Charles > > > >At 10:22 AM 9/24/03 -0400, you wrote: >Brad > >You have my sympathy re; sharpening tools. I have been trying to sharpen >tools now for four years and still have not found the magic touch. >You know those cheap wood carving tools that you can buy for about six >dollars? Well, now I use them until they are dull, then throw them away and >buy a new set. The only way I know of to have sharp woodblock tools. > >Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:56:26 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22879] Re: lino question Thanks you very, very much. But what if you do not have a press, like me? d. dew From: Mike Lyon >For transfer of a toner image to a non-absorbent surface like linoleum or >aluminum (test to make sure your linoleum is unaffected by the solvent/s) I >have obtained very clean and clear results this way: On the bed of an >intaglio press, place a piece of blotter paper which has been saturated >with solvent (I usually use straight lacquer thinner). The blotter must >not be shiny-wet, but just evenly 'damp'. The less porous the receiving >surface, the less damp the blotter must be in order to avoid 'running' of >the image. On top of the blotter, face up, goes the toner original from >copy machine or laser printer. HALF TONES DO NOT TRANSFER WELL -- USE A >HIGH CONTRAST IMAGE FOR BEST RESULTS. Then the media (lino block, wood >block, metal litho plate, another piece of paper, etc.) face down on the >original. Then blankets as usual and run through the press under >relatively light pressure. Voila! > >Here's a very good lithography-oriented tutorial on the subject by Nick >Semenoff: http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/toner.htm > >-- Mike ------------------------------ From: "Robert Canaga" Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:48:46 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22880] Re: lino question I use a Chartpak AD marker Blender p-o201. It says non-toxic, but then so does Citrasolve...It is the only one that works. You use it in well ventilated areas and keep the cap on and don't sniff it...we are all to old for that:(. I like it because you can do small areas with the tip, that way you can be selective without cutting . Handy tool. ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V24 #2383 *****************************