Baren Digest Sunday, 10 August 2003 Volume 24 : Number 2337 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 10:17:20 EDT Subject: [Baren 22532] Update- I just received the brochure from the Center for Contemporary Printing, Norwalk, Conn, announcing Mike's course Special Woodcut Workshop, Sept 15-19. Nice!!! Also, at the same place is the Paul Furneaux and others' prints in the Ink from Wood:Two Traditions (oil and water) from Sept.12 through Nov 8. I will try to get up there ( give Mike hello and the goodbye hug I missed at the Summit) AND Congrats to Sarah Hauser --National Association of Women Artists Medal of Honor and Award for Woodblcok Print, Little Juzz, in the Annual Exhibit.. Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: "Jim Ek" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 11:11:22 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22533] Water base I'm a neophyte to Woodcuts. I took a class, my introduction, a couple of weeks ago. In the class we printed our results using a waterbased ink. The instructor told us that this ink will smear if touched with a damp hand. My wife and I are giving thought to home made Christmas cards. There is naturally a concern about the ink smearing when the card is handled. So the question arises if there is some type ink/fixative combination that would work, without smearing - blurring the water based ink when applied? Thank you, Jim ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 11:49:11 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22534] Re: Water base At 11:11 AM 8/9/2003 -0500, Jim wrote: > So the question arises if there is some type > ink/fixative combination that would work, without > smearing - blurring the water based ink when > applied? Plain old water color in tubes when pressed into washi by hand using a baren are very permanent. I dry and rewet my papers during printing many times (re-wet with a water saturated brush). Image seems pretty stable once printed. Try an experiment yourself and see what you think... Oh... But if the paper has a film of free water on the surface when printed, the color will run like crazy! Damp only, not wet! - -- Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Jim Ek" Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 13:20:08 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22535] Re: Water base Hi Mike, Thanks for taking the time to respond. As mentioned earlier, I am a neophyte to this woodcut process. Not even knowing what "washi" is. Although I now do. I was hoping you would verify a couple of assumptions I have made regarding your answer. They are: 1. Person applies the watercolor from the tube to the woodcut itself (using a brayer). (Not the washi) 2. You take moist - not wet paper and lay that on the woodcut and then use a brayer to press the paper onto the woodcut? (In the class I took the instructor used the back of a wooden spoon. I asked about a brayer but he thought the spoon to be much better.) Thinking about this project leaves a question in regards to paper weight. Naturally as a holiday card a cardstock would be wanted. Like something in the 90lb student watercolor range. But since you mention washi, I'm thinking your suggesting a lightweight paper. I have some Masha here. But if Masha is used adhering the Masha to a cardstock using a white glue might affect the quality of the print (hah, like archival qualities really needed with what will probably be the fourth or fifth attempt). Once again, thank you for your time. Jim > At 11:11 AM 8/9/2003 -0500, Jim wrote: > So the question arises if there is some type > ink/fixative combination that would work, > without > smearing - blurring the water based ink when > applied? > > Plain old water color in tubes when pressed into > washi by hand using a > baren are very permanent. I dry and rewet my > papers during printing many > times (re-wet with a water saturated brush). > Image seems pretty stable > once printed. Try an experiment yourself and > see what you > think... Oh... But if the paper has a film of > free water on the surface > when printed, the color will run like crazy! > Damp only, not wet! > > -- Mike > > Mike Lyon > mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com > http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: GraphChem#aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:04:18 EDT Subject: [Baren 22536] Re: Stiff ink You're killin' me.......... DS Inks, Miracle Gel, Setswell.......where has our marketing failed (or where hasn't it failed)? I would humbly suggest Graphic inks, Graphic gelled vehicle, and either Setswell or Sureset, and most of your problems will disappear. Dean Clark ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2003 16:18:25 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22537] Re: Water base At 01:20 PM 8/9/2003 -0500, Jim wrote: I was hoping you would verify a couple of assumptions I have made regarding your answer. OK -- for a WORLD of information about traditional Japanese printmaking techniques, see the Baren Encyclopedia of Woodblock Printmaking at: http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/index.html and/or the ONE-POINT LESSONS at: http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/topics/018/018_frame.html 1. Person applies the watercolor from the tube to the woodcut itself (using a brayer). I apply it to the wood using a brush made for the purpose kinda like a small shoe brush -- not just to the top of the wood, but in the cuts, too. Very thinly brushed all over the area to be printed. 2. You take moist - not wet paper and lay that on the woodcut and then use a brayer to press the paper onto the woodcut? (In the class I took the instructor used the back of a wooden spoon. I asked about a brayer but he thought the spoon to be much better.) Spoon will work much better than a brayer. Baren will work much better than a spoon. Baren is flattish and larger diameter (~5 inches) than a spoon, made to press the paper into the ink without pressing it into the cuts. Thinking about this project leaves a question in regards to paper weight. Naturally as a holiday card a cardstock would be wanted. Like something in the 90lb student watercolor range. But since you mention washi, I'm thinking your suggesting a lightweight paper. I have some Masha here. But if Masha is used adhering the Masha to a cardstock using a white glue might affect the quality of the print (hah, like archival qualities really needed with what will probably be the fourth or fifth attempt). You can print any paper you like, but I prefer washi. Watercolor paper usually is too heavily sized for traditional moku-hanga printing. Rives BFK and Rives lightweight work fine (I've changed my opinion on this point), but are too weak for a large number of color layers (the back of the paper pills under the baren after a few printings and you have to use an extra sheet between the Rives and the baren... I don't know 'masha' paper. How about 'hosho'? I am printing more or less a traditional Japanese woodblock technique. Others in this forum get excellent results with water-based inks and brayers, using them in almost the same way you'd use oil-based inks with brayers. There are a ZILLION ways to make woodcuts -- many more ways than there are people who print! I'd suggest that you follow your teacher's advice, and go ahead and check some of the prints you made in class for water-fastness by wetting and rubbing... I've tried that with some of my prints and they are amazingly waterfast considering they are made with watercolors! I mean, eventually after wetting and rubbing the color will move, but it really tries to stay where it's put! - -- Mike Mike Lyon ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 14:47:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 22538] Re: Water base Jim, You must have been using Speedball if it washes off the paper. If you want to roll the ink onto the block instead of brush it, I would recommend Akua Kolor ink. It will dry permanent and will not wash off. It is a honey based ink and acts a bit like oily ink as it stays workable for hours or days before it is printed, but cleans up with water. Graphic chemical www.graphicchemical.net also has a waterbased ink that works well but does not stay workable for as long as Akua Kolor. Graphic's ink will also be permanent when dry.I think it is their own brand. Akua Kolor can be ordered mail order from McClains Printmaking Supply, www.immclains.com Let us know how you do...there is so much to learn but once you start with this woodblock stuff you will want to know it all! If you get stuck and need help, let us know and we will give you lots of info. Best to you, Barbara Jim Ek wrote: I'm a neophyte to Woodcuts. I took a class, my introduction, a couple of weeks ago. In the class we printed our results using a waterbased ink. The instructor told us that this ink will smear if touched with a damp hand. My wife and I are giving thought to home made Christmas cards. There is naturally a concern about the ink smearing when the card is handled. So the question arises if there is some type ink/fixative combination that would work, without smearing - blurring the water based ink when applied? Thank you, Jim ------------------------------ From: FurryPressI#aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 18:31:18 EDT Subject: [Baren 22539] Re: banned art Last time I looked e-bay is a for profit bus. and not a public and/or gov't operation they are free to chose what they will allow to be sold. Public and or gov't do censor art all the time try putting porn or bigoted work in a public and/or gov't space. The German gov't censors Nazi art. Nothing new here. On politics on the Baren list. It seems I got goosed but the gander is allowed to say what ever it wants. Calling the president "shrub" is political just as calling other politicians dwarfs.. I understand I am in a minority in the art world. It does seem that censorship is not being applied in an even manner.. john center ------------------------------ From: michael schneider Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 00:59:05 +0200 Subject: [Baren 22540] Re: banned art Dear John, I can assure you that in this group you belong to the majority. The majority of printmakers who are interested in a thorough discussion of art and printmaking. When it comes to political discussions in connection with art, it is question of the tone. As a saying goes: the tone makes the music. michael FurryPressII#aol.com wrote: > Last time I looked e-bay is a for profit bus. and not a public and/or > gov't operation they are free to chose what they will allow to be > sold. Public and or gov't do censor art all the time try putting porn > or bigoted work in a public and/or gov't space. The German gov't > censors Nazi art. Nothing new here. > > On politics on the Baren list. It seems I got goosed but the gander > is allowed to say what ever it wants. Calling the president "shrub" > is political just as calling other politicians dwarfs.. I > understand I am in a minority in the art world. It does seem that > censorship is not being applied in an even manner.. > > john center ------------------------------ From: "Colleen Corradi" Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 01:23:04 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22541] cards exchange Sarah, congratulations for having so many images in that magazine! I am looking forward to visiting you this week at your studio. It was a surprise for me also to bump into you at lower east side printshop! For those members in the cards exchange, I have had a sneak preview of Sarah's card which she is meticulously printing these days. Very nice idea she had. you will love it! For those who are not in the cards exchange, there is a card available, since we have a drop out. If anyone is interested please let me know. The guidelines are here www.monoprints.com/exchanges/cards.html Colleen Corradi ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V24 #2337 *****************************