Baren Digest Thursday, 7 August 2003 Volume 24 : Number 2332 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: G Wohlken Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:58:05 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22467] Setswell, Carving With the Knife, Odd Way of Sharpening Barbara, you mentioned about Setswell as "loosening the ink". You are talking about litho ink needing loosening, and not relief ink? I notice relief inks are loose already. I still don't know what the advantage of Setswell is, though I have bought it. I tried it and didn't notice much difference except I think (though not sure) it caused a sheen I didn't particularly want. >Setswell is an ink modifier, it loosens the ink. Here's a carving question. When I carve around an image using the smallest u-gouge I seem to have better control than when I use the knife. The knife never feels at home in my hand, no matter how I hold it (fist style or pencil style). I make lots of mistakes with the knife, but wish I could use it because I know I could get crisper lines if I wanted crisp lines (which I don't always want, but sometimes I do). And here's one more thing. I attended a wildlife carving festival recently and a woman showed how she sharpened her tools. I had never seen this before. She used a ceramic stone, and brought the stone up to the tool in midair and moved the stone in circles against the tool. She swore it worked better than moving the tool against the stone. Has anyone ever heard of this, or tried this? Gayle (Ohio) ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 06:44:46 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22468] Re: Stiff Check around in your area. I found magnesium carbonate VERY cheap at a local supply house for potters. Seems it is used for making glazes. Cheers .... Charles ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 07:10:25 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22469] Re: Setswell, Carving With the Knife, Odd Way of Sharpening Standard technique for sharpening axes, bush hooks, scythes, sling cutters, hoes, and similar large, unwieldly tools. Regretfully, I have had a lot of experience in such matters!!!! Cheers ...... Charles At 09:58 AM 8/6/03 -0400, you wrote: >And here's one more thing. I attended a wildlife carving festival >recently and a woman showed how she sharpened her tools. I had never seen >this before. She used a ceramic stone, and brought the stone up to the >tool in midair and moved the stone in circles against the tool. She swore >it worked better than moving the tool against the stone. Has anyone ever >heard of this, or tried this? ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 23:45:48 +0900 Subject: [Baren 22470] Re: neri-zumi Barbara wrote: > Do you know what is in this neri-zumi? Is there any starch? It is the > most amazing black I have ever seen. I know it is sumi concentrate, but > what is in sumi ink????? The sumi sticks we get here for calligraphy are simply 'carbon black' mixed with a glue binder. I understand that the usual source for the black is simply soot, and I have seen photos of the manufacturing process ... rows of small flames each with a kind of hood over it to collect the soot. A bit of Googling turns up this: http://www.boku-undo.co.jp/eprodu.htm As for our neri-zumi concentrate, it seems to be just liquid sumi mixed with gelatine; I think it is also likely that a preservative has been included, as the stuff doesn't seem to go bad (at least not in the jar; once you get it into your bowl you have to keep it covered when not in use, as it sure catches mold easily enough ...) Dave P.S. Interesting that when I checked Google just now to search for 'sumi sticks' our [Baren] Mall page came up almost at the top ... we must be getting lots of hits these days! ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:46:49 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22471] Re: Paul Furneaux Dear Bareners Since I know first hand what Paul is going through due to the loss of his studio and all of his work and tools from a fire , I have the deepest sympathy for him. If it had not been for the generosity of my Baren Support group, I do not know how I would have gotten through the disaster. The Baren "Relief " came through for me and I was able to start printing again in my garage. I suffered from a severe depression, thinking I would never be an artist again. It was a terrible time in my life. You will never know how important this group was for my well being. So let us rally around and give Paul some Baren empathy and send him whatever you can. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:48:12 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22472] Re: Setswell, Carving With the Knife, Odd Way of Sharpening At 09:58 AM 8/6/2003 -0400, Gayle wrote: >Here's a carving question. When I carve around an image using the >smallest u-gouge I seem to have better control than when I use the >knife. The knife never feels at home in my hand, no matter how I hold it >(fist style or pencil style). I make lots of mistakes with the knife, but >wish I could use it because I know I could get crisper lines if I wanted >crisp lines (which I don't always want, but sometimes I do). Carving with the toh (single sided skew knife) is really easy after you do it a lot -- easy on the muscles and easy to control, but you have to: a) keep a sharp blade b) always carve from more difficult to easier c) don't try to cut deep or press hard, at least until after you've made a LOT of d) practice e) practice f) practice. In order to become facile with any of these non-trivial skills, you have to exercise them. Discipline yourself to carve the outlines of your next (pick a number) blocks with the toh. Then let's talk. You may decide you still prefer to use your u-gouge (but in my opinion, the smallest U-gouge tends to leave a flat sort of 'cup' shape adjacent to the printing area before dropping away properly (which you probably do with a larger gouge?) and that shallow 'cup' or 'lip' tends to hold excess ink and make a wet sort of goopy outline. When you carve with the toh, try (for speed when carving relatively straight lines for longer distances) holding the knive in your fist with the blade out the little finger side and pulling the knife toward you, "steering" it through the wood by slightly turning your wrist like a rudder cuts through water. For tight curves and short runs where the knife might skip, hold the knive like a pen in one hand, steering it through its path by rotating the handle and at the same time, push the blade through it's cut with a finger or thumb on the other hand. If it's too hard to push or pull without skipping or digging in, you are probably cutting way too deep. Make it easy on yourself and keep it shallow. Oh -- in b) above, that means that you begin your stroke in a more difficult position and the stroke proceeds toward an easier position -- that way you maintain and even improve control throughout the cut. If you begin easy and move toward more difficult during the cut, you tend to make more mistakes. I don't know if I've articulated this very well. I mean that you don't want to cut a long curve and finish up with your hand twisted upside down and pushing the knife into curly grain away from you with that delicate fine line part your spent hours and hours carving threatened by your soon to be out of control blade... Always finish so that the carving and body are more controlled and comfortable than the start of the stroke... - -- Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:28:34 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22473] Re: Setswell, Carving With the Knife, Odd Way of Sharpening Gayle, I use a knife to carve, a chip carving knife. I was told that it's the gripe that makes the difference. Holding it close to the point, the blade. If you will. Seems to work for me. And I'm not sure on your explanation of the lady sharpening tools. Could you explain that again please? Philip ------------------------------ From: Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 08:38:09 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22474] Woodcuts I just got an e-mail from the Floating World Art Gallery. www.floatingworld.com Really nice woodcuts, expertly printed pieces.Take a look-see! Of course some were done during our conflict with Japan. So be forewarned. Please go to the "detail" button at the bottom of the page once you open the print. Neat stuff!!! Philip ------------------------------ From: "Brad Teare" Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 10:20:14 -0600 Subject: [Baren 22475] Long and short I have used litho inks and they are stiffer. Very messy too, as it tends to= = be hard to get out of the can (I wish they would put it in tubes).=20 I have been studying Gustave Baumann' work. I suspect that stiff ink is the= = key to getting some of the textured effects he got. Quite interesting. Has = anyone studied his methods? I will try the mag carbonate. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: Sharri LaPierre Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:10:22 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22476] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2331 Both Setswell and Gel Reducer loosen ink. I've used them interchangeably when I was out of one or the other. My favorite is the gel as it does not discolor, harden and become unusable, or do nasty things to paper. I prefer pigment saturated etching inks (like Graphic or Gamblin) for everything and modify it either with whiting (to stiffen) or gel, depending on whether I feel like being loose or not so loose. Today I'm feeling very loose - must be the weather! To keep lines crisp, use heavily pigmented ink in thin layers. If you get too much on the roller, scrape it back from the slab and re-roll the roller so it has less ink on it. Add to it sparingly as you print. It should make a swish-swish sound when you roll it out, as opposed to a squash-squash sound. Now, that is really hard to explain verbally. :-) Really beautiful landscape, Brad. Happy printing - Sharri ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:29:38 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22477] oil and setswell Hmmm, Mike, I never have had a problem with oily paper or cracking when adding plate oil; I think I heard once when I was paying attention in printmaking class that more than 10% total added anything to ink will cause problems. Set-swell compound I believed to be an additive that keeps the ink "open" to new ink layers. More layering is possible this way without getting shiny upper layers. I don't know why you got a shiny effect when adding this, Gayle, because it is meant to prevent the very effect. Miracle gel also makes ink less tacky, good when working with hand-made papers. I suspect it's just some sort of petroleum jelly. Some printing problems and additives are mentioned here in the context of working with metallic inks http://www.1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/metalink/metallicink.html A better guide to additives can be found in the catalogs of many manufacturers and suppliers, Graphic Chemical's catalog is a must read for any foolish printmaker like moi. Also Dan Smith's catalog is a good source of info. Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango maria#mariarango.com Las Vegas Nevada USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 10:35:01 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22478] cutting Forgot to mention, Gayle, I never use the toh, so shoot me. I like the feeling of "drawing" with the chisels and developing the image as I cut. I start out with a silly sketch on a tinted block that wouldn't pass the laugh test in any context, then develop the drawing and print as I cut. I use from 1mm to 3mm v's and u's to do almost all my cutting (1, 1.5 a favorite, 2, 2.5 and 3), larger for clearing. I also use the chisels in horrible ways, twisting and turning the poor things to get different effects...let's just say I break a few blades here and there, but that just keeps my sharpening skills...well--honed! Maria ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:07:01 EDT Subject: [Baren 22479] Re: cutting I think it is all how you come to wood cuts as a wood engraver and wood cutter I mainly use a "viener" or "u" almost never use a knife except when I am using plywood. More on plywood later in post. When I am using plank grain maple with the smallest "v" i can almost get the same detail as in wood engraving. When you use a "v" to make a straight line you don't do it the same way as a knife. A little know wood engraving trick is to only cut a small amount of the line at a time and go back over it again called stitching by wood engravers. If you try to cut the line all at once it will more than likely not be streight. Plywood is easier to print but I am finding many problems with it. It is difficult to carve because of the different grain of the layers of wood, If you have lines away other lines they may pop off. And in the last block I am working on there are open areas under the thin veneer. I watched the problems a professional printer was having with some blocks cut by a well know printmaker which were caused by the fact he used wood from old doors and furniture. If you print by hand there would be no problem but the problem occurs because this type of wood is hollow. The make ready to fix this problem would make using this material old doors and panels not worth the problems in printing. As i spend 90% of my time carving i find carving plank wood to be fun and plywood is not fun. Not an artistic reason but a good enough one in anycase. john "furrypress" center ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:23:04 EDT Subject: [Baren 22480] Re: Stiff Ink I was referring to commercial (and art) oil based inks rather than sumi. I am not sure why you would want a thicker sumi. If you want a darker black in hanga printing you should use a black paint with some opacity to it. Part of the beauty of sumi inks are the gorgeous grays it can produce. To intensify a sumi ink printed hanga I would think that repeated printings would be necessary just from the nature of the medium. I hope that I am understanding you correctly. Paul Ritscher ------------------------------ From: Chromoxylo#aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:34:37 EDT Subject: [Baren 22481] Re: Long and short Gus Baumann made his own oil-based inks and regulated the transparency or opacity as he needed. The prints of his that I have examined tend to have very heavy coverage with a lot of zinc (or opaque) white added to the color to reproduce the gouache effect of his paintings. He overprinted dark colors with light colors to get certain effects and that takes quite a bit of opacity in the ink to achieve. The ink on some of his prints could be likened to cake icing the coverage is so heavy. Paul Ritscher ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:39:30 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22482] 16x22 moku-hanga underway... For anyone interested, I have some progressive images of my current woodcut in progress at http://www.mlyon.com/temp/2003_08.htm it's the largest scale moku-hanga I've attempted (except for the Summit bench, of course) 16" x 22" paper and 26 blocks -- well actually 1 block, as it's a reduction print, but 26 states planned. The block is three cherry planks glued together (I bought 10 feet of it ready-made) and although I surfaced it very flat and shiny smooth before beginning, the center plank has some sapwood at one edge which has expanded above its neighbor, so there's an odd-looking stripe a third of the way down from the top. That center plank is softer and holds more water than the others and prints a bit darker. It's a struggle, but a very pleasant one! I expect that additional color layers will reduce the odd way the block is printing. - -- Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: MccarthyDb#aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2003 20:04:43 EDT Subject: [Baren 22483] Re: 16x22 moku-hanga underway... In a message dated 8/6/2003 7:47:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikelyon#mlyon.com writes: > http://www.mlyon.com/temp/2003_08.htm wow- what a wonderful website! and what a lovely print- bobette ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V24 #2332 *****************************