Baren Digest Saturday, 19 July 2003 Volume 24 : Number 2310 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MccarthyDb#aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:42:13 EDT Subject: [Baren 22261] Re: Step by Step I agree with Gayle- Dave- your whisper thin lines truly amaze me- in addition to fully supporting the line by angling the side (in carving), do you take care to print very gently in terms of pressure? Bobette ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 09:52:07 EDT Subject: [Baren 22262] Re: Jocoulet > http://www.hanga.com Great deal on your Jacoulet, Carole Baker. I see nothing "creepy", but will keep on looking... The print listed above your Les Perles is L'etoile de Cobi. The Nazi symbol is the same as the one used by some Western Indian tribe. Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:25:17 +0900 Subject: [Baren 22263] Re: Jacoulet Carole wrote: > Pretty good $10 investment. (now don't somebody tell me there are fakes > out > there) It brings me much pleasure hanging in my living room. Interesting coincidence ... I too have this same Jacoulet print - although mine cost a lot more than $10! Nice find! > I've just looked through my book of all his prints and wondering > which ones might give you the creeps. > The eyes definitely look weird on some of them, but I don't find any > creepy > or disturbing. How about this one? http://barenforum.org/temporary/oleai.jpg And no, when I say 'creepy' I'm not trying to be 'homophobic' - or whatever the word is. I don't care for his homosexuality, but I don't care _about_ it either. I do though, think this stuff is 'strange' (is that a better word than 'creepy'?) over and above the homoerotic content. *** Bobette wrote (re fine lines): > in addition to fully supporting the line by angling the side (in > carving), > do you take care to print very gently in terms of pressure? Yes and no ... If thin lines are isolated, and thus liable to get 'hit' too hard with the baren, then yes, you really have to pass very lightly over them. But in the case of this print, where they are pretty thickly clustered together, you can actually use quite firm pressure - but with a baren that doesn't have particularly strong projections of course. *** Barbara wrote: > Have you any idea why all these actors look like their eyes are crossed? Well, when you see _photos_ of kabuki actors, this is exactly the sort of expression you find there too - so it does seem that these Sharaku designs are fairly realistic in that sense. I myself have never been to a Kabuki play, and don't have any particular knowledge about this at all. But a bit of Googling turns up this page: http://www.lightbrigade.demon.co.uk/Breakdown/Dramatic%20content.htm Scroll down until you get to the section on 'Mie', which describes this sort of expression, along with a nice photo of crossed eyes! Dave ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:51:15 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22264] Re: It's been a while ... David Thanks for the reminder of your Step by Step demo. The paper on your Kabuki performer is so beautiful and fragile looking, what is it? Is it the same Hodomura paper as in your "Crow"? Also you say that you used a "light" sumi ink in your "Crow" print. Did you mean the ink was thin? You must have a great camera, all the pictures are so clear . Thanks Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:20:45 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22265] Re: Jacoulet Yep, I agree, that one *is* creepy. Or at the very least disturbing. It looks as though he transplanted a friend's head onto an indiginous body with tatoos! Perhaps a joke of some kind? Carol, what a find for $10! Just shows that it pays to dig through piles of stuff, doesn't it? Wanda on 7/18/03 7:25 AM, David Bull at davebull#woodblock.com wrote: > Carole wrote: >> Pretty good $10 investment. (now don't somebody tell me there are fakes >> out >> there) It brings me much pleasure hanging in my living room. > > Interesting coincidence ... I too have this same Jacoulet print - > although mine cost a lot more than $10! Nice find! > >> I've just looked through my book of all his prints and wondering >> which ones might give you the creeps. >> The eyes definitely look weird on some of them, but I don't find any >> creepy >> or disturbing. > > How about this one? > http://barenforum.org/temporary/oleai.jpg > > ------------------------------ From: "Gillyin Gatto" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 14:28:28 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22266] Jacoulet ! thank you Julio for giving us the easy links to Paul Jacoulet's work I am not usually interested in subjective opinions of art work , but like others , was wondering what all the fuss was about -especially the "creepy" feelings some mentioned , so I took a look- and WOW! I am completely blown away by Jacoulet - - - not only for the technical excellence of the work , which is obvious , but his cultural achievement also amazing . Not knowing what the" climate" is/was in Japan for gay men, all I can say is that it is always a huge risk and takes great courage and self esteem to openly depict gay life as perfectly normal and beautiful. His figures are androgenous , gender-bending masterpieces. When he depicts couples , some are obviously gay men , while others could be male/female , male/male or female/female . This sensuous ambiguity is erotic and stimulating, breathing a life into Jacoulet's work which is seemingly unique . The bold , confrontational visage of his figures , the strong female bodies and the males expressing a sensuous feminine side , are all quite wonderfully refreshing ! to call an artists work like this "pointless" is to wildly MISS the point ! Jacoulet was obviously expressing and celebrating a lifestyle, in Japan, that was familiar and dear to him. I'm thankful to have been introduced to this artist , whom I am NOT surprised to have missed hearing about. Gay artists and women and minorities are often dismissed as unimportant and their stories lost-at least to history books. thank goodness that true appreciators of Hanga were less likely to overlook such an achievement. and that "creepy" feeling that some folks get when viewing Jacoulet's figures ? my guess is that it would be none other than * homophobia* - -which we all -gay or straight- have been conditioned to experience . don't worry- - - it goes away with time and an opening of the heart and mind..... Gillyin ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:52:45 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22267] Re: Jacoulet ! Gillyin Well said!!!! Could not have said it better re; Jacoulet. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 17:00:10 EDT Subject: [Baren 22268] formschinider wood cuts Durer any one find a print of his for $10.00 I am a bit old fashioned I am not interested in his or anyone else's social life. Doesn't anyone blush anymore? Dave you would have loved the reaction I got with a wood block I am cutting of the front side of the 1000 yen note. 2' by 4' board one of my larger blocks. I am pushing birch plywood as far as it will go I am finding out. It seems to work OK for details but thin lines are a major problem. (but because it is plywood it can be repaired much easier). I wish I had a variety of plywood that was made using good wood through out instead of only on the surface layer. If I had used maple or cherry I would not have had these kinds of problems but the weight would have given me a hernia. What was the name of the profession of block cutters in Japan? Formschinider was the name of it in Germany. Any one up to a discussion of Hans Baldern Gurien vs. Albrect Durer? Hans is much lesser known than his Master but some times he is much livelier printmaker. humm John "furrypress" Center ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:03:47 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22269] Re: Jacoulet ! Since I initiated this recent discussion of Jacoulet, I suppose I have to say something, because Gillyin's comment--whether intentionally or not--leaves the potentially vulgar implication that all of us who have criticized his work are homophobic. What I said I still stand by, that his prints "seem to me to be decorative, often sentimental, and 'decadent', in the sense that they prettify a culture and tradition of which they are not an authentic expression." I was responding to the work which various members of the list had suggested we look at. I knew nothing about Jacoulet's biography, except that he was French and living in Japan during the first half of the 20th century. Myron ------------------------------ From: "Tyrus Clutter" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:47:30 -0600 Subject: [Baren 22270] Moving Hey Bareners, I just wanted to send out a note to the list (a few know already) that I am going to be moving. I'm going to unsubscribe in a couple days but will resubscribe once things get settled in the next month. If you need my street address for some reason please contact me off-list. I am leaving my teaching position at NNU to take on the directorship of Christians in the Visual Arts (CIVA: check out www.civa.org for more info), a national non-profit organization. The home office is located on the campus of Gordon College in Wenham, Massachusetts (where I will also teach the art history as part of the deal). This is on Boston's north shore, so I hope to meet some of you folks in that area once I get settled. This is going to be a great opportunity and I will be traveling more, so I'll let people know when I'm visiting specific cities if I have time to connect with some baren folk. I'll participate in discussions a bit more after the first couple months of the move and will eventually get back into some exchanges when time permits (I get use of a great print facility at Gordon!). Thanks for all the great discussion and ideas over the past few years. TyRuS ><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~>< Prof. Tyrus Clutter Professor of Painting, Printmaking, & Art History Director of Friesen Art Galleries Dept. of Art & Music Northwest Nazarene University 623 Holly St. Nampa, Idaho 83686 TRClutter#NNU.edu (208) 467-8398 ------------------------------ From: b.patera#att.net Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:40:43 +0000 Subject: [Baren 22271] Re: Jacoulet's creepiness and they can hang on my wall Sorry Gayle, Had deleted your message by the time I wrote about Jacoulet and I guess clumped you with the wrong group. I appologize! However, I don't even find Jacoulet's prints to be creepy. Creepy would at least be something....they just leave me cold. This is, of course, purely subjective. Barbara Patera > Barbara Patera said: > > > >This is an interesting discussion. I, along with Myron, Gayle, and Sherri do > >not like Jacoulet's prints. They would never hang on my walls. > > > > > Just to set the record straight, I didn't say anything against Jacoulet. > You must be thinking of someone else, Barbara. Sorry, but I like his > work, including the creepiness. Joe, I think you may be right about > the underlying erotic feeling in the prints. It doesn't bother me at > all, and I find myself rather drawn to them for that reason. I can't > get over those faces. > > Gayle > > ------------------------------ From: "MPereira" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:14:53 -0300 Subject: [Baren 22272] Re: Jacoulet Please someone explain to me what the words "creepy and disturbing" means. If you could give an explanation and some sinonimous. I know there are dictionaries. I have consulted them but I know that there is another meaning to the one that speaks the mother tongue, in this case the English. A kind of "gria" (slang) as its said in Portuguese. The conotation proper of each native language. If I could know the etimology of the words... Thanks for your attention. Por favor alguem me explique o que significam as palavras "creepy and distrubing". Se voc puder me dar uma explicao e alguns sinnimos. Eu sei que existem dicinrios, Eu os consultei mas sei que h um "outro sentido" (significado) para os falantes da lingua materna, no caso o ingls. Uma espcie de gria como se diz em portugus. So as conotaes prprias de cada idioma, de cada povo. Se eu conhecesse a etimologia das palavras.... Muito obrigado pela ateno. Como que isso em espanhol, Juan? ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:12:39 -0500 Subject: [Baren 22273] Re: Jacoulet The words "creepy" and "disturbing" in the current context suggests something psychologically unhealthy. We also use the word creepy when referring to the way we might feel when watching a horror movie, where you feel you skin "crawls". I guess it comes from slithery, slimy crawling things which give us a sick to the stomach, horrible feeling. Sometimes we refer to someone as a "creep", meaning that person is strange or weird. Myron At 08:14 PM 18/07/2003, you wrote: >Please someone explain to me >what the words "creepy and disturbing" >means. If you could give an explanation >and some sinonimous. I know there are >dictionaries. I have consulted them but >I know that there is another meaning to >the one that speaks the mother tongue, >in this case the English. >A kind of "g=EDria" (slang) as its said in >Portuguese. >The conotation proper of each native >language. >If I could know the etimology of the words... >Thanks for your attention. > ------------------------------ From: Emkaygee#aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:17:05 EDT Subject: [Baren 22274] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2309 Hi everyone! I have a question...... Does anyone know anything about the Wood Engravers Networks summer program? I hear one is coming up and I might be interested in going... Thanks! Mary ------------------------------ From: "Robert Canaga" Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Baren 22275] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2309 Include me! I would love to take some WE classes! RC > Hi everyone! > I have a question...... > Does anyone know anything about the Wood Engravers Networks summer program? I > hear one is coming up and I might be interested in going... > Thanks! > Mary > > ------------------------------ From: G Wohlken Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 08:51:39 -0400 Subject: [Baren 22276] Skokie Exhibit Julio, what a big job, hanging the prints for the Baren Skokie exhibit. All that work, and they look fantastic! Also, thank you for webpages showing the pics of all the past Baren exhibits including the latest one you hung at the Skokie Library. I admire how much work you do for Baren and it's greatly appreciated!! Gayle/Ohio ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V24 #2310 *****************************