Baren Digest              Wednesday, 16 July 2003      Volume 24 : Number 2305


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:52:47 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22219] Re: Paul Jacoulet's Prints 

You can say these same things about most of "modern" painting--look at 
those technically childish efforts of Matisse , Bonnard, 
Derain,  Arp:   I'd rather learn from the craftsmanship of Raphael.   As 
for Jacoulet, if you don't like his subjects then who are you learning from 
when you view his prints, since he made the designs, as I understand it, 
but did not execute them?  The point about great artists, however much you 
may disdain their "craft", is that they alter the consciousness of the 
culture.  However important a figure he is in American art, Eakins never 
managed to do this, neither during his own life time, like Matisse or 
Raphael in theirs, nor afterward, like Van Gogh or Pollack--though he did 
manage scandalize the Victorian burghers of his home town, and of Boston 
and New York, by teaching to mixed audiences from nude models (among them, 
to the dismay of their parents, his own students).

Myron


At 07:56 AM 15/07/2003, you wrote:

>art debate   hum   goodie
>
>Except in very few cases I find impressionist art to be over hyped and in 
>some of the prints to be badly done.  If the art institute wants to sell 
>tickets to the masses they do a show on any impressionist artist.  Many of 
>the prints were so poorly printed as to be laughable. If they were turned 
>in to an intro to printmaking class I would return some of them with 
>corrections noted.
>Thomas Eakins towers over them all.
>
> From Paul Jacoulet you can learn craftsmanship at least even if you don't 
> care for his subjects.  In the same way you can learn from Albrect Durer 
> I am not interested in much of his subject but I stand in awe for his 
> craftsmanship.
>
>john "furrypress" center




------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull#woodblock.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 22:56:51 +0900
Subject: [Baren 22220] Re: Paul Jacoulet's Prints 


Myron wrote:

<excerpt>I personally can't agree.=A0 I know that a lot of people on
this list are taken with Jacoulet.=A0 But, however well-made, they seem
to me to be decorative, often sentimental, and "decadent', in the
sense that they prettify a culture and tradition of which they are not
an authentic expression.

</excerpt>

Interesting points Myron ... may I toss in a view on this?  You put
'well-made' on the positive side of the equation, and then three other
words on the down side ...


1) decorative   I for one, would put this back over on the positive
side! I don't think that his prints were in any way intended to have
any political/philosophical/social 'meaning'. He conceived them as
decorative objects, and put them out into the world honestly to serve
that function. (I happen to share his view that woodblock prints can
be 'purely' decorative, although we are of course well aware that
others feel differently about it.)


2) sentimental   Not much to add on this ... it is positive or
negative as one's personal taste dictates ...


3) decadent   Jacoulet was a story-teller, both in his art and in his
life. A good example in his prints are his scenes of a Chinese court
that existed (in those days, anyway) only in his imagination. So I
can't really accuse him of 'prettifying a culture'. I suspect he would
say "Thank you!" to this charge.  As to the 'not an authentic
expression' point, this touches on the whole concept of
'appropriation' - the idea that an artist has no right to use
images/ideas from a culture not his 'own'.  But what was Jacoulet's
'own' culture? He grew up in Japan from a very early age, and although
his passport was French, for him to illustrate scenes of Paris would
have been 'appropriation'!


I certainly don't intend to defend Jacoulet much beyond this. I myself
don't care for many of his prints; I find a lot of them 'creepy' and
disturbing, and I'm sure that's a reflection of the man himself, whom
I suspect I would also have found creepy ... But I do enjoy those
prints which seem to me to be 'purely' decorative, and I very much
enjoy them as stunning technical achievements.


Dave


------------------------------

From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:49:11 EDT
Subject: [Baren 22221] Re: Paul Jacoulet's Prints 

Myron,  Gauguin, to get those  those glowing effects in his prints sometimes 
superimposes one thin paper over another.
Carol L.

------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:10:53 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22222] Re: Paul Jacoulet's Prints 

Interesting--so that the color shows through from below?  Now that you call 
attention to the technique, I think I've seen some prints of his described 
that way.

Thanks,

Myron

At 09:49 AM 15/07/2003, you wrote:

>Myron,  Gauguin, to get those  those glowing effects in his prints sometimes
>superimposes one thin paper over another.
>Carol L.



------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 22223] glowing prints 


There is a Japanese artist here in Oregon, Yugi Hiratsuka, who
does intaglio and prints on both sides of thin oriental paper.
The ink seen through the paper is softened...he has great control
ot it. Then he mounts the thin paper to a heavier sheet. I think
this would work with waterbased ink also if the paper were thin
enough. As if there were not enough things to get control of....

I enjoyed the banter about Jacoulet, especially the talk about
his "expertise" since he did nothing of the physical part of the
woodcuts himself. I understand he had the best carvers and
printers and that he was very fussy so pushed them to do their
most amazing work. Maybe that counts, I work better if someone is
pushing me. Best to all,

Barbara



------------------------------

From: Jan Telfer <jtelfer#iinet.net.au>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 23:52:44 +0800
Subject: [Baren 22224] Re: Paul Jacoulet's prints 

Dear Barbara,

I am sure the lady will be very interested and excited especially 
coming from you..    Big impression!!

For those interested, I was staying with Barbara and Dennis in Issaquah 
during my week of R&R between a double dose of Bootcamp and we went for 
lunch into a Chinese Restaurant that Barbara and Dennis know and the 
proprieter as well.  The Lady in question was a Cruise organiser and 
just happened to be talking with the proprieter at the time.  We were 
all introduced and she was interested in my accent, etc and when she 
found out we were woodblock printers she invited us around to see her 
woodblock prints x 4 (I think she had) but didn't know much more than 
his name was Paul with a French sounding last name.  I think she said 
she had met him, is that right Barbara?


>> Jan, Did you see the White Lotus Show of his work?
>> Here is the link
>> http://wlotus.com


No, Robert, I didn't.  I live in Western Australia and this is the 
first I have seen anything of his work except for that chance happening 
we had in Issaquah.  It is now close to midnight here, so I will have a 
look in the morning.  Thank you for the link.  I can't say that I am a 
"fan" of what I have seen, but was surprised  when I saw his prints to 
remember the connection.

His prints were similar to those on the web, but more like a copied / 
simplified Japanese style, but similarity to Gauguin would only be in a 
simplification of form, because his colour usage was rather insipid 
Myron.  Jacoulet certainly didn't use the painterly, brightness or 
naivity of colour that Gauguin used.  Unless artists actually say " I 
admired the work of this artist or that artist" anything else is all 
speculative.  I was involved in explaining woodblock techniques to the 
Friends of the Western Australian Art Gallery when we had the 
Monet & Japan Exhibition on here and I have never heard so much speculative 
"rubbish" used in comparison with the two as I listened to "learned" 
people talking about the exhibition .... they even produced a thick 
book on the whole debarcle!  Yes, Monet could have carried a few 
woodblock prints around in his pocket from packaging he had received 
with his "postal orders" but please......" the position and perspective 
of this bridge is like this bridge"   "The Design of this is similar in 
composition  to this"....  Oh Please!!!

After that experience I will never again rent a tape recording of any 
exhibition!!!

But it was nice to see that even in these prints and the ones we saw in 
their original state it was nice to see that even these printers aren't 
perfect!

I would like to go back Barbara and have another look at the lady's 
prints though... you may be that lucky.
Will you please say hello from me and thank her again?

Ta,

Jan


------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:09:45 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22225] Re: glowing prints - Gary Luedtke 

For those that were at the Summit and got a chance to look at Gary 
Luedtke's beautiful print designs, I think his vibrant color work is very 
similar in style to the images by Jacoulet. While Gary's subject matter is 
landscapes( Gary does Hawaiian scenes) I think they both share a very 
strong and bright color palette....very intense and full of "life" is how 
I would describe it.  In a similar manner as Jacoulet, Gary also designs 
but has his prints made by professional craftsmen....

To see a few of Gary's designs,  including "Kalalau"  which David Bull 
printed at the KC Summit,  go here:

http://www.barenforum.org/members/luedtke/luedtke.html

To see Gary's and David's Surimono collaboration print go here:

http://www.woodblock.com/surimono/2001/3-9/display_print_3-9.html


thanks....Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois) 

------------------------------

From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:52:14 -0700
Subject: [Baren 22226] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2304 

OK, a debate will bring me out of my silence.  Craftsmanship is to be 
admired.  I know little about the impressionists prints, but a lot about the 
paintings of the time.  They are filled with light and color and often 
passion.  I have seen poor craftsmanship and great art together because art 
comes from the heart, the imagination and the feeling and meaning for and of 
the subject.  It is obvious in printmaking that there is a long tradition of 
the artist coupling with a craftsman to create his designs as prints.  
Perhaps there are crafsman who can couple with the artist and project that 
ceative feeling, that soul that true art possesses.  But some how I can not 
imagine some one else could know the feeling I want my subject to project, 
The other day a friend said she could not do people well because she could 
not put feeling into her work, could not make it alive  She chose not to go 
into the arts for that reason.  A few days ago when I carved my nude 
calendar print I truly wanted a sensuos line, one that expressed a certain 
feeling.  I may have failed, but as an artist that is one major goal, to 
create work that shows how a certain image feels.  When I paint a landscape 
of my beautiful bay, any more i go abstract and sit and look and feel the 
wonder of it and that is what I want, the feeling for my subject over the 
rendering of it.  A true crafsman who can do what David Bull does is truly 
rare and to be greatly admired even revered for the wonderful skill he has 
developed.  Also you John Center, you have been carving for years and years 
and your skill is to be greatly admired.  But there is a difference between 
having the soul and imagination to create original work and having the great 
skill required to put it into a well crafted print.  Both are to be admired. 
  I think David Bull has a true point when he says it is the printing of it. 
  For if the artists hand has carved the line, the printer can bring forward 
the beauty of the design,  YEAH!!!
Marilynn Smith



------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:02:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22227] Re: New "Exhibitions" page on the website 

There is a new page up on the barenforum.org website that has information 
and links to past Baren Exchange print exhibitions. 

http://www.barenforum.org/exhibitions/

 From time to time our members will take it upon themselves to curate a 
show of exchange prints and thus share our work with the world. I say the 
"world" cause our print exchange folios have been on display in many 
countries such as Japan, Bulgaria, Israel, Uganda, Scotland and of course 
in many cities here in the United States. 

The page is still under construction and I am missing information on a 
number of exhibits...."Inspired by Japan" (Stephen Goddard) currently 
ongoing in KC (exchange #15) will get added to the list tonight. There are 
a few other ones missing.

If you have held a baren exchange exhibit and I don't have you on the 
page, or if you have photos/links to contribute.....please contact me 
off-list to get your information online.  Also I am looking for 
links/photos to the very first two shows we had back in 1999....KIWA's 3rd 
(Richard Steiner) and the MGC show in Manhattan (Judy Mensch & April 
Vollmer). 

There is a link at the bottom (2003) to photos of the current exhibit in 
Skokie. The page needs some work as the photos don't match up with their 
links {;-) .......but it will all be corrected tonight.

http://www.barenforum.org/exhibitions/skokie2003/

Enjoy.......Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)


------------------------------

From: barebonesart <barebonesart#comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 09:27:31 -0700
Subject: [Baren 22228] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2304 

Craftsmanship is important, I'm not saying it isn't, and I also stand in awe
of the people who can cut those teensy, weensy lines and have everything
sooooo perfect - but - they leave me cold.  It is like a coloring book with
nary a color going over the line.  Sterile and unmoving.  On the other hand,
I have seen prints with much cruder craftsmanship, but they show the gusto
of the printmaker, and the images were alive and and touched me in a way the
perfectly executed ones could never reach.  So, I guess it depends upon the
viewer which you value more: technique or image.  Personally, I'm an image
kinda gal.

Sharri


------------------------------

From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:15:16 -0400
Subject: [Baren 22229] Brushes 


Thanks to all of the wonderful Baren members who came to my rescue 
regarding how to prepare my brushes before I start printing.
That is what this group is all about (besides being a great support 
group)

Now I am ready to print my second Hanga print. Never thought I would say 
that!!!!  The Baren Summit really inspired me.

 Miss you guys!

Jeanne N.



------------------------------

From: Cucamongie#aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 17:56:29 -0400
Subject: [Baren 22230] Jacoulet 

Myron, I have to agree w/you about Jacoulet's work feeling sort
of ickily sentimental (at least what I've seen of his) vs Gauguin
(whose work I'm generally very moved by). but then, I'm generally
a fan of "cruder", less "technical" more expressionistic type
work anyway.  I can appreciate someone's craftmanship in artwork
but if it doesn't have that other something, "soul" or whatever
you like to call it, it doesn't "speak" to me. but, to each their
own, and that's what makes life interesting. best wishes and
happy printing, 
Sarah

------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull#woodblock.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 08:28:38 +0900
Subject: [Baren 22231] Re: Sterile prints and printmakers 

Sharri wrote:

> Craftsmanship is important, I'm not saying it isn't, and I also stand 
> in awe
> of the people who can cut those teensy, weensy lines and have everything
> sooooo perfect - but - they leave me cold.  It is like a coloring book 
> with
> nary a color going over the line.  Sterile and unmoving.


Here's a little story - half actually experienced and half made up - to 
try and illustrate a point:

***

There's this English guy, who lives with his wife and kids in this 
apartment somewhere. In the same building, down the hall, there is this 
family from XXX (some 'latin' country ... maybe Italy, Greece, 
Mexico ... you choose).

Now and then - no, actually not 'now and then', but very frequently - 
the English guy hears quite loud noises coming from the apartment of 
this other couple. Dishes breaking, people shouting and screaming, you 
can imagine the sort of thing. He and his wife look at each other, 
"Should we call the police? Is somebody going to get hurt?"  They don't, 
but a bit later, when they see the other couple in the hallway, it 
always seems as though nothing has happened between them - they are 
talking and behaving normally.

Time goes by, the two couples get to know each other a bit better, and 
one day, when they are all sitting out on the porch chatting, the 
conversation gets around to this difference in their habits - one house 
full of shouting and, shall we say 'vivid' behaviour, and the other 
house full of ... apparently not much 'life' at all.

Neither can understand the other. "How can you stand all that tension? 
Doesn't it upset your kids when you start screaming at each other?" come 
the questions from one side.  "It's like a grave over in your place; 
don't you ever show your wife you love her?" comes from the other side.

And right there, hearing that question, the English guy realizes that he 
will never, as in _never_, understand the feelings of the other man. To 
equate love with shouting, deep feelings with noise, heart-felt emotion 
with 'drawing outside the lines' ... these are concepts alien to him.  
And of course, he realizes that the man down the hall can have 
absolutely no idea that this English guy too, loves his partner, has 
plenty of deep feelings about many things, and is quite capable of 
heart-felt emotion. He might be keeping his feelings, and his life, and 
his woodblock prints all 'between the lines', but he too is a 'complete' 
person ... and 'sterile and unmoving' most definitely he is not!

:-)

Dave


------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis#aol.com
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 19:42:25 EDT
Subject: [Baren 22232] Re: Sterile prints and printmakers 



well said dave    different strokes for different folks


------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V24 #2305
*****************************