Baren Digest Wednesday, 4 June 2003 Volume 23 : Number 2249 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: G Wohlken Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:32:34 -0400 Subject: [Baren 21693] Printing on Rives I appreciate everyone's input regarding printing on Rives paper. I sent Jeremy all the messages and also talked to him on the phone (he lives in Pennsylvania), so he's armed now with the new knowledge. Thanks, everyone! It's helpful that we have so many members and different approaches to try as a result of the info that is shared. By the way, Jeremy thinks some of his problem was him not inking the board enough. Probably the Rives (it turns out it was the lightweight he was using) drinks ink. Also he was using Speedball oil based ink. I don't know if that had anything to do with it. Gayle/Ohio ps: Nice work (for Swap Shop), Darrell and Kent! ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:41:16 -0400 Subject: [Baren 21694] Re: Printing on Rives Oh my, not Speedball ink! Here it comes, he he he...... By the way, Speedball does work on Rives, you just have to ink very well and press very light, it's too tricky even for me, a Speedball freak. d. dew > From: G Wohlken > Subject: [Baren 21693] Printing on Rives > Also he was using Speedball oil based ink. I don't know if > that had anything to do with it. > > Gayle/Ohio > ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:27:11 -0700 Subject: [Baren 21695] a message from Victoria Browne Charles, Thanks for the tips. Have to admit that a hydraulic jack will be far to heavy to lug around and too expensive for artists in a township project. We have used both the scissor and bumper jack presses which work well for lino printing. Lets hope that if so many people are already aware of the concept, that they will help to support the project. Victoria >From: Charles Morgan >Reply-To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp >To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp >Subject: [Baren 21686] Re: New printmakers website >Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 16:54:51 -0700 > >This sort of "bottle jack press" has been described by a number of people >over the last few years ... including me!!! I wonder where the idea first >appears? The basic idea is to just use a hydraulic press, as would be found >in a machine shop ... that was the original reason I made mine. But ------------------------------ From: DC Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 12:47:00 -0400 Subject: [Baren 21696] thanks mike for the great suggestions on clouds. i'm going to try#5 first and see what i get with it. i NEVER would have thought of the shaved edges idea. i like it. thanks again, dina ------------------------------ From: "Chris Bailey @ Support Local Art" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 12:51:32 -0600 Subject: [Baren 21697] Speedball? Is Speedball ink bad? It seems to be very common in the stores, so I started with the their water based ink. It seemed 'okay' for bold lines, but I found it was drying out too much for more detailed work. I tried a couple other water based inks, but wasn't very happy with them either. I was using a thicker paper (Arches, I believe. Sprayed but not soaked). I then switch to speedball oil based along with thinner 'rice paper'. This seemed to give me the results I was looking for. The paper was not acid free, but I am now trying some Hosho, Mochizuki and Masa papers (spelling may be a bit off, and I'm not sure of the exact papers). All three samples I'm trying are quite thin and acid free. I should know in the next few days which of these I prefer and which I will continue to work with. I'm only working in black and don't have any plans to get into color (at least any time soon). The black oil based ink seems to be very strong without having to spray or soak the paper. I'm not sure there would be anything left of the paper if I did soak it. As a baren I'm using a flat wooden 'sticky-rice' spoon (approx 2 1/2" diameter, but only about a 1/8" concave). I'm very happy with this tool, and I haven't had any problems with the paper tearing (apart from when the spoon slid off the edge of the block... I don't think anything would have saved it them). Examples at: http://www.supportlocalart.com/artists/Chris_Bailey/artist_Chris_Bailey. htm The "Carl Safran Centre" print is a lino cut, that is done with speedball water based ink on a thicker paper. I think the water based was fine for this print as it is a bit larger and does not have the same level of detail as some of the smaller prints. "Babbling Brook" is speedball oil based on rice paper. I'm just starting out in the wonderful world of wood cutting / engraving, so any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated. =Chris= .... One final question -> should all editioned prints be printed in one session? Is it acceptable to print 25 prints (of 50, for example) and then print the rest once the first have sold? I know it's probably better to print them all at the same time, but where does everybody store them? Is it okay to stack them all in a box together? Should they be separated with something? (okay, it was more than one question, but at least it's along a similar topic :-) Thanks everyone. ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:25:55 -0400 Subject: [Baren 21698] Re: Speedball? Chris Nothing at all wrong with making the remainder of the edition at a later date. I always do this and make sure I keep track of where I left off. Also good idea if you are storing your prints to put them between sheets of glassine paper for protection. I have nothing against Speedball ink. I did once, until I saw what Dan Dew can do with his wonderful prints, all Speedball. Go for it. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 14:30:06 -0500 Subject: [Baren 21699] Speedball friendly.... Dan writes: "Oh my, not Speedball ink! Here it comes, he he he......" Chris writes: "Is Speedball ink bad? It seems to be very common in the stores, so I started with the their water based ink...." Hey...I just used some waterbased Speedball on my exchange print #16, "Spring". Actually is a mix of sorts...some colors are Speedball, some are an off-brand blockprinting ink, at least one is acrylic based and some are traditional grounded pigments from Japan. As a side note to Gayle, it was also printed on Rives White heavy (175gms) which was dampened once with a waterspray bottle (every other print) and which sat on my refrigerator for about 10-12 days while the print run was completed. So to all you Speedball experts and those oppose to using the product...I dare you to tell me which two colors of the six colors on the print are Speedball. ha, ha, ha........Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois) ps. welcome to all the new members & lurkers onboard... ------------------------------ From: slinders#attbi.com Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 14:54:39 -0500 Subject: [Baren 21700] Re: Speedball friendly.... After seeing Barbara Patera's work with Charbonelle Etching Ink, carbon black, it's on my shopping list! (I'll buy anything if it will help me print like Barbara!) ;-) Sharen ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII#aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:36:29 EDT Subject: [Baren 21701] Re: Baren Digest V23 #2247 HUMMM press printing on reives no problem speedball mucho problemo not going to get dan started on that. I use arches or rieves 99% of the time and not the light weight stuff eather and i print dry. thank god for my vandercook. I am currently working on blocks that are too big for my vandercook so i am printing on an etching press at anchor graphics here in chicago (if you are in the chicago area there is a relief print show up at anchor graphic - shameless plug if i don';t say) I have even printed on leather wonderfull effect but way too much $$$$ i put a relief print i did printied on leather on the back of my motor cycle jacket fun to ware art. john center ps looking forward to the summit ------------------------------ From: Aqua4tis#aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 16:35:10 EDT Subject: [Baren 21702] Re: Reetching ink for woodcuts???? barbara used etching ink on a woodcut? do you need to alter the ink for this? im asking because i have that same etching ink thanks georga ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:44:14 -0700 Subject: [Baren 21703] Re: Re etching ink for woodcuts???? Nahh, just slop it on and go!!!! Geez, some people even use speedball!!! Kidding, kidding...easy easy.... I've used etching and litho inks for woodcuts, just have to get it to the right consistency with the aid of plate oils of diverse grades and/or whiting (a thickener). Litho/etching inks tend to be much stiffer than relief ink, good for engravings as is! But for standard woodcuts, you will need to tone down with plate oil, say a 3ish or 5ish. Another additive is that transparent relief base, very goopy and soft, will make your inks wiggle with happiness. Be careful that all these additives will also make your ink more transparent, so black is not as black as black is when black is left alone. You will need a couple of drops of cobalt drier to taste, don't forget that all important drier! not that it matters much here in the desert. Maria, sorry, in a goofy mood today <||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango Las Vegas Nevada USA www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 21704] Speedball? Chris, Most artists print editions 5 or 10 at a time keeping good notes. some print them all at once, but then there is the storage problem....I print 5 at a time with oil based inks, but if it is a hanga print I do them all. It is just too much work to set it all up and get the ink exactly the same and the paper the perfect dampness and so on....it seems once you have it, it is easier to just keep going. There is nothing worng with Speedball ink, it just has less pigment in it than other mediums. Some people love it. To keep your waterbased inks wet longer, you can add some of Graphic Chemical's "watersoluble vehicle" to the ink...I suppose it is glycerine or propylene glycol ...it does work. >"Chris Bailey @ Support Local Art" <.... One final question -> >should all editioned prints be printed in one session? Is it >acceptable to print 25 prints (of 50, for example) and then print >the rest once the first have sold? I know it's probably better to >print them all at the same time, but where does everybody store >them? Is it okay to stack them all in a box together? Should they >be separated with something? (okay, it was more than one >question, but at least it's along a similar topic :-) >Thanks everyone. ------------------------------ From: "Jean Womack" Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 23:39:10 -0700 Subject: [Baren 21705] Re: Baren Digest V23 #2248 Dear Kylie, It did cross my mind that it had a fermented odor. However, it didn't smell anything like wine. I thought there was some kind of vegetable matter in it, so that might have been the question in my mind. It's quite a strong odor, but we all sat there and painted pictures of bamboo at the Chinese Cultural Center in San Francisco on Sunday mornings for awhile with ink out of a bottle and no one even said a word, so I didn't think anything of it then. Maybe that's why they sell it in a block that you have to rub to make into ink. Jean > Jean, > I know what you mean about the smell from sumi. I think it depends on how > warm the weather is when you are printing too. Sumi is made from lampblack > (a kind of vegetable oil/soot), water, and bone glue. It could be the > combination of these things which give it that special odour. A good website > about how sumi is made is at > http://www.kougei.or.jp/english/crafts/1103/d1103-5.html > if you want to know more. > Kylie. ------------------------------ From: GraphChem#aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 08:54:54 EDT Subject: [Baren 21706] Re: How do you use Rives paper with woodcuts (without a press) Gayle - Which Rives paper was he using? The weight will have a bearing on the result. Rives L/W is about 115 gsm, Rives H/W is at 175 gsm, and Rives BFK starts at about 250 gsm and goes up from there. The Okawara Student is 40 gsm, and the other two Okawaras are 60 gsm. Big difference. Dean Clark ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V23 #2249 *****************************