Baren Digest               Sunday, 13 April 2003       Volume 23 : Number 2192


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From: "carolwagner" <carolwagner#softcom.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 08:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21329] Black black sumi 

You wrote

  < how do you get a really black black? I've
tried sumi ink and akua-kolor lamp black-all i get is grey. I'd appreciate
any tips you can give. thanks, dina>


Dina.

The best black I've ever found is the Sumi from Baren Mall known as
'Neri-zumi'. This is unlike the the liquid or stick sumi usually available
here in the US. It is much thicker, and as the blurb says in Baren Mall, it
really does make an unbelievable dark! It is well worth paying the freight
charge to order this as it goes a long way and a jar should last quite a
while. I've not been printing Mokku Hanga style for too long, but just love
using this Neri-zumi. When you first ink your block your early prints will
be a lighter gray, but as you continue to apply sumi with the brush, mixing
it with just a dab or two of Neri, or rice paste. Mix on the block- you will
soon obtain a gorgeous black. I also love the smell of this stuff. Sometimes
I close my eyes and pretend I'm in Japan as I open the jar. A note on
printing paper, I always proof with some of that 'rice paper' a big misnomer
as there is no 'rice' in any of that paper!) available in tablets , known as
Sumi Painting Paper, and it takes about 10 or 11 prints to build up  to that
great black. I know that some  do not advocate using paste with just Sumi,
but I have found that just a little bit of paste on the block with the
Neri-zumi works better for me. I have always mixed my own blacks in
watercolor (a fifty-fifty mixture of Alizarin Crimson and Thalo green being
one of my favorites)  but with Japanese woodblock printing I favor using a
good sumi such as the Neri-zumi. To order some, go to www.Barenforum.org
Just click on  'Baren Mall, then click 'Pigments Miscellaneous', and check
it out!

Another ingredient required for getting good blacks for Moku Hanga, is
patience...This is, after all, a new experience for many of us, and you
should be patient with yourself if the first few prints are not dark enough.
It takes a little time to build up that rich dark on the block and in the
brush, to say nothing of having the paper just right-not too damp, not too
dry. Then the block must be damp enough, not too wet/not too dry...little
wonder that apprentices were trained by printing with only sumi for a long
time! Or so I've read. Anyways. a big welcome to Baren...

Carol in Sacramento


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From: LEAFRUTH#aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:14:19 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21330] Re: Baren Digest V23 #2191 

Thanks Julio.  The block is 8" wide and 10" in hieght so I'm in good shape.  
Ruth

http://www.ruthleaf.com

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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:25:50 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21331] Re: <no subject> Hello Dina,

A lot depends on the sumi that you are using. You need a very high 
concentration of "particles" in the ink.

(1) You can try putting liquid sumi out in a shallow dish for a few days so 
some of the water can evaporate and the ink thickens up. Stir it from day 
to day till it becomes pretty thick. Then when you put water and paste on 
the block, it will not dilute the color so much that it shows as grey.

(2) You can get a stick of sumi ink, crush it, and add just enough water to 
make a pretty thick paste. You will have to soak the crushed stick for a 
while to get it to "dissolve" ... mortar and pestle would help ... you will 
have to strain the goo through a stocking or something. This is a pain.

(3) By far the easiest is to buy a jar of sumi "paste" from the Baren mall. 
This works REALLY well. It is almost like a gell. When ready to use, take a 
bit out and dilute with a bit of water to get the right consistency.

(4) Or you can mix a variety of colors to get black. Others have more 
experience with this and can help you better than I. There was a recent 
discussion on this topic, so you might check to archives.

Cheers ... Charles

At 08:41 AM 4/12/03 -0400, you wrote:

>hello everyone-i'm a new member of baren. what a great website. i've worked
>as a printmaker (not professionally) for about 10 years. started with
>silkscreen, then polyester plate lithography and about a year ago got hooked
>on woodblock. i've always used oil-based inks, but have just recently
>switched over to water-based. BIG DIFFERENCE! i have many questions, but
>i'll throw out just one right now: how do you get a really black black? i've
>tried sumi ink and akua-kolor lamp black-all i get is grey. i'd appreciate
>any tips you can give. thanks, dina



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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:22:18 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21332] war and peace 

To my electronic friends (and enemies!),

I am writing to ask you to please refrain from making overtly political 
comments on Baren. I do this not out of a sense of anger or partisanship, 
but out of compassion for everyone. I do not think that making such 
comments on Baren serves any good purpose, and I think it does a lot of 
damage.

I do not wish to censor anyone ... I think censorship is bad. I respect 
everyone's right to freedom of expression on any topic. But I do think 
there are appropriate places for political commentary and inappropriate 
places for political commentary. I do not think the Baren forum is an 
appropriate place for us to air our personal religious views nor our 
personal views about the existence of aliens nor our personal views about 
the use of bioengineering in agriculture; nor do I think it is an 
appropriate place for us to air our personal views about politics.

The potential harm that can be done by continuing in this way is enormous. 
Many people will be turned off of such a "debate" no matter what their 
personal views, just because they do not like controversy. Many people on 
each side will be deeply distressed by comments from the other side. As a 
result, some people will cease to participate, or participate less than 
they might have. We all lose as a result.

What good can come of such debates on Baren? None that I can see. I do not 
think anyone will be swayed from their own point of view by a Baren posting.

It takes a great deal of forbearance to not respond to someone else. I 
know, because I tried to express a view for peace without supporting either 
side, and it did no good. I am trying desperately to bite my tongue and not 
get further involved in what I see as a dark quagmire for Baren. I am 
asking you to please be sensitive to others, be respectful of us all, be 
mindful of the damage to Baren that might result, and resist making overt 
political comments. Please, even if someone else makes a provocative 
statement, just let it go ... do not bow to temptation and make a political 
comment in response.

By all means, put whatever messages you want in your art. If you want to 
include political messages in your exchange prints, then do so. I am not 
proposing that we censor our art work. I just see no function to be served 
by getting involved in political harangues on Baren.

If you would like to have an exchange of views on the current situation in 
Iraq, I would be happy to respond to you privately, to the limit of my 
time. I believe in the value of rational debate based on reason and 
evidence. I do not believe in hurling invective.

With my best wishes ...... Charles


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From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:46:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 21333] Re: <no subject>


Dina, This is an easy one...you print it twice. I know that
sounds odd and it was the strangest thing for me when I started
doing waterbased printmaking with wood. You do not make the ink
darker, you print it in the same place again. I have seen work
printed in the same color as reduction and by the end, the color
was impossibly dark. Just let the pieces rest damp for a while
and start printing the stack again. If you use the kento
registration system there will be no problem lining up the work.
If you use the black sumi ink, it should print black the first
time.....I would get new sumi ink! But maybe you will get 10
answers to this, I am fairly new at it myself. Best to you,
Barbara

DC <doodah#cyberportal.net> wrote:

 

>i'll throw out just one right now: how do you get a really black black? i've
>tried sumi ink and akua-kolor lamp black-all i get is grey. i'd appreciate
>any tips you can give. thanks, dina




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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 09:00:13 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21334] Re: <no subject> At 08:41 AM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>hello everyone-i'm a new member of baren. what a great website. i've worked
>as a printmaker (not professionally) for about 10 years. started with
>silkscreen, then polyester plate lithography and about a year ago got hooked
>on woodblock. i've always used oil-based inks, but have just recently
>switched over to water-based. BIG DIFFERENCE! i have many questions, but
>i'll throw out just one right now: how do you get a really black black? i've
>tried sumi ink and akua-kolor lamp black-all i get is grey. i'd appreciate
>any tips you can give. thanks, dina


Welcome, Dina, and good luck with Exchange #17 -- it's a pleasure to have 
you participating!

Seems to me that 'black' is relative.  Most water-based colors dry to a 
matte surface... you may be able to 'wet' it to a glossier finish by adding 
some glue (skin glue) to sumi, or by burnishing, varnishing, lacquering, 
acrylic medium-ing -- all will make the surface smoother and deeper 
black...  Or you might try a different sumi...  Sumi black comes in many of 
'colors'.  Guerra in New York supplies a black pigment suspension which is 
even stronger than and somewhat redder than my sumi (and my sumi is much 
blacker and much stronger than my Akua lamp black -- I compared a bunch of 
different colors in a somewhat informal swatch test last summer)-- see 
http://www.barenforum.org/encyclopedia/entries/007_04/007_04_frame.html to 
find contact information for Guerra and other suppliers.

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:29:19 -0500
Subject: [Baren 21335] Re: About war and peace 

I think this ranks among the greatest disasters of our time...  What a 
loss! 
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/12/international/worldspecial/12CND-BAGH.html?ex=1051180426&ei=1&en=57ce73cf70d206fc

UGH!

Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

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From: <Philip238#copper.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 17:57:50 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21336] Re: Baren Digest V23 #2191 

I'm sure most of you are aware of this but in galleries the vertical
dimension is always given first, i.e. 8 by 10 would mean it's a horizontal
format, as 10 by 8 it's vertical.
Just a note.
Philip
Hammond, OR

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From: JMartin906#aol.com
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 23:07:47 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21337] thanks, but still one more question 


Hey, Julio,

Thanks for clearing up the horizontal/vertical question on the postcard 
calendar.

Still another question.  Should the image be 4 x 6 or should the image be 
inside the 4 x 6 with a border around it (the image plus border being 4 x 6)? 
 Sorry to be somewhat unable to imagine spaces interacting.

Suzi


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End of Baren Digest V23 #2192
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