Baren Digest Thursday, 6 February 2003 Volume 22 : Number 2120 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 06:57:51 -0600 Subject: [Baren 20648] Re: Water-based paint At 11:28 PM 2/4/2003 -0800, Charles Morgan wrote: >I have kept a small tea bowl with rice paste and pigment mixed sitting on >my studio table for more than two weeks and nary a sign of mold. Me, too (well, for a week anyway)... just keep it covered so it doesn't dry out. >I think you are MUCH more likely to get paste build up on the block if you >follow the traditional technique. You have that thick shoe brush gizmo >loaded with paste and pigment, and you keep adding more paste directly to >the block and then scrubbing it with that big brush. That shoe brush is >BIG and carries a lot of paste. No wonder you get a big build up on the >block after a while. I disagree with this -- first, shoe brushes are 'OK', but the brushes made for the purpose are INFINITELY better! Really! The brush is a 'buffer' where the changes in amounts of paste and pigment(s) added from one print to the next are 'leveled' so that each print pulled is similar to the last. The brush should NEVER become overly wet or over-loaded with pigment or glue -- it should always be kept "just right". It isn't difficult to control this if you put your mind in there. >There is nothing mystical about the traditional way of doing hanga. <...> >That does not mean that variations on the traditional methods would not >produce <...> good results. Absolutely agree with Charles on this one! Experiment to find what works! - -- Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Louise Cass Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:36:01 -0500 Subject: [Baren 20649] mail A message for Steve Goddard (if you're still out there)- I e-mailed you privately but it was returned as undeliverable!?- can you confirm your address please While I'm writing - I'm enjoying all the great New Year cards which I've mounted with the 3M conservation tape which no one has mentioned using -any comments on it?? Louise Cass http://www.LCassArt.com ------------------------------ From: "PHARE-CAMP,PATTI (HP-USA,ex1)" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:52:58 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20650] RE: Baren Digest V22 #2118 Charles writes: "....Mixing the ink and the paste together before applying it to the block..." I've done no hanga at all but I have done monoprint. One of the first things we did was coat the plate with a rice paste like releasing agent. It served two purposes: One as a barrier between the pigment and the plate; allowing the pigments to release easier. Two to assist in pushing the pigment into the damp paper. It seems to me that the rice paste in Hanga also serves the same purpose. The paste in monoprint also assists in smoother blends and transitions between colors, as I've noticed it also does in hanga. Just my thoughts... Patti P-C ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 08:20:30 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20651] Re: Water-based paint >Charles Morgan wrote: >I have kept a small tea bowl with rice paste and pigment mixed sitting on >my studio table for more than two weeks and nary a sign of mold. Mike wrote: >Me, too (well, for a week anyway)... just keep it covered so it doesn't >dry out. Say, Mike, was there anything special in your rice paste to act as a preservative? Were you using a commercially prepared paste? It occurs to me that methyl cellulose paste should keep for a very long time, though I have not used it myself. Does it work O.K. with hanga? Charles wrote: >I think you are MUCH more likely to get paste build up on the block if you >follow the traditional technique. You have that thick shoe brush gizmo >loaded with paste and pigment, and you keep adding more paste directly to >the block and then scrubbing it with that big brush. That shoe brush is >BIG and carries a lot of paste. No wonder you get a big build up on the >block after a while. Mike wrote: >I disagree with this -- first, shoe brushes are 'OK', but the brushes made >for the purpose are INFINITELY better! Really! The brush is a 'buffer' >where the changes in amounts of paste and pigment(s) added from one print >to the next are 'leveled' so that each print pulled is similar to the >last. The brush should NEVER become overly wet or over-loaded with >pigment or glue -- it should always be kept "just right". It isn't >difficult to control this if you put your mind in there. Well, I was just being a bit facetious calling it a "shoe brush". I have the traditional Japanese bushes (EXPENSIVE) made for the purpose, and my comments apply to them. I have never used anything else. I agree that the brush "SHOULD never become overly wet or over-loaded with pigment or glue" as Mike says. But what "should" be the case does not always coincide with what is the case, at least in MY case!! My comment is that I am less able to control what is going on with such a brush and the traditional separate-dollops-scrub method than with a little foam brush and premix, and I do not believe I am atypical here. Maybe I just need a lot more experience with the traditional techniques. My point is that with less experience, the premix method is much easier. By the way, those scrub brushes carry a pigment/paste mix. They do not carry separate dollops of pigment and of paste. So if the big brush has a mix in it and that is used to "...'buffer' where the changes in amounts of paste and pigment(s) added from one print to the next are 'leveled' so that each print is similar to the last" as Mike says, then once again, one has to wonder why not just mix the pigment and paste before applying it to the block? We all agree ... whatever works for you is good. I do not mean to criticize the practise of others. I am simply throwing out a suggestion that others may want to try. If you are an inexperienced bumble head like me, you need every edge you can get!!! Cheers ....... Charles ------------------------------ From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:23:08 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20652] building a press & hanga Hi all, First a clever hydraulic press you can build yourself. I have seen plans for several of these and this gentleman has the easiest and best I've seen. In any case, if you like to tinker, here is something to tinker with: http://www.1000woodcuts.com/studio/method.html On hanga, I used a shoe brush and a "real" Japanese brush and there is no comparison; the Japanese brush was a wonderful tool and held pigment/paste without globing up or becoming too damp. There was little over build up of pigment/paste. I think Charles approach would work fine too. It seems more like Western printing, if one would go that route of selectively applying pigment to the raised surface why not just use a dauber or roller with waterbased inks? This is not a criticism at all, I'm all for experimenting and changing tried and true methods, just an observation. As another naive observation, perhaps we are talking two different methods and purposes here. In Western relief methods the wood becomes simply a relief _surface_ on which to apply ink; "wood" in this case could be linoleum, MDF, poly-board or sealed concrete for that matter. You just need a raised surface. In traditional Japanese printmaking, the wood absorbs some of the pigment/paste and moisture to yield a very thin layer of pigment on the paper after applying pressure. The surface of the wood is not the only thing that matters since the block absorbs pigment in whatever vehicle, then releases it. Lino, for example, would be completely unsuitable. I didn't really find the hanga method all that undoable and rather enjoyed applying pigment and paste. The reason, in my climate, to apply them separately is that I had to continually adjust the amount of each to keep that ideal degree of moisture. I did mix pigment and paste a couple of times and found that the mixture dried out, then I added water, then the pigment ratio wasn't right after a while and I got lighter prints...I found it easier to control the pigment strength and consistency if I added the same tiny glob of each pigment and paste each time I printed. When things started to get drier, I added water to the rice paste without disturbing the pigment strength. In any case, I think there is great value (at least for me) on doing things the way they were done for centuries. Gives me a whole new appreciation for those clean and delicate Japanese prints. Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango Las Vegas Nevada USA www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:37:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 20653] Yet another Baren project .... Julio, I like your idea, but I think it could be done sort of like an exchange, 12 people do 12 prints, then 12 more do 12 more....and so on. This way no one would miss getting one. IF someone wanted to do more than 12, the could join two calendar exchanges...what do you think? Barbara .....I am talking about making a Barenforum calendar printed by participating baren artists. Over in Japan they make blank calendar sheets with the dates/days preprinted....they have a blank area on the top for you to print your own image.....they are sold by the month in large stacks and are very popular with printmaking groups. These would be woodblock, lino, engraving as per our rules...but you could do oily or hanga or a bit of both. Size would be limited by the pre-printed forms available. See these photos from Dave's website: http://woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/017_05/017_05_frame. html My idea would involve taking on participants, ordering and redistributing the pre-printed sheets here on the US....and then collating the separate months into calendars. A calendar is something that can be displayed year around, is something also that can be given away to family and friends,,,,and if made out of original hand-printed art work...a little treasure to keep forever. We probably would not want to limit to just twelve members (each person prints a specific month) so we could probably just have an open-ended list of participants....you signup...ask for a month or we assign the month at random...each particpant gets maybe 20,30,50 ? sheets to print....then we get them back ala Maria's puzzle project...and we put the calendars together. Each participant can get back a few copies for their trouble and the rest of the calendars can be made available for sale at the BarenMall to benefit Baren...... I think the pre-printed forms (minimal costs) are available in May-June...perhaps earlier....we could probably have them here in late spring, carving and printing to be done during the summer/fall....and the finished months sent back to me by November and returned to you by /December....????? Suggestions ? ideas ? are you interested ? any problems I missed ? Please check the lovely prints on Dave's website. Open for discussion.......... {;-) thanks..Julio Rodriguez 7992-- ------------------------------ From: "Cynthia S. Bendix" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 08:55:18 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20654] Re: Can this be ? Yet another Baren project .... I love the idea. A calendar print seems somehow less intimidating that the exchanges (for this newbie). Thea Bendix Oregon ------------------------------ From: "marilynn smih" Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 09:34:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20655] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2119 Julio, a calendar, what fun. Hope, if you get this project going that the timing is right for me. This is a personal message and I know not about printmaking. But I am excited and want to share with friends. My daughter sent me an email from Nevada this morning. He boy friend officially proposed last night and she is engaged! She is 30, he 34 and he has custody of his 12 year old son, so we will have an instant grandson! Maybe I can get him into hanga, who knows! Marilynn Smith in Baja and from Nahcotta wa. ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 13:36:55 -0600 Subject: [Baren 20656] Re: Water-based paint Charles Morgan wrote: >Say, Mike, was there anything special in your rice paste to act as a >preservative? Sure, Charles... I use the same kind (well, not the same brand, but the same sort of stuff) as you -- prepared paste. I'm pretty certain that it contains preservative of some sort, too. Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:05:02 EST Subject: [Baren 20657] Re: Yet another Baren project .... Hi Julio, Calendar sounds good, when I survive Maria's latest project.! By the way the use of the Dunkin' Donuts wrapper paper under the baren , which you mentioned a while, ago works very well for small areas. And I got a few jelly donuts to go with them. One never know where an idea will come from! Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 16:30:03 -0600 Subject: [Baren 20658] Re: Water-based paint Hi Charles...I think is just like you said...if it works....is good !!!! I think my "problem" with the paste/mold is that I use one of the traditional recipes in the encyclopedia....I think is Sadako's recipe from a while back. Is a tablespoon of flour to a cup of water (or 1/2 that if I am doing a small batch) , boil it for a few minutes until translucent, done.... No way this lasts for a week for me....a day or two maybe if i make it real runny....which I usually don't. Once it starts to get lumpy I just toss it and in a few minutes I have a new batch.... lunch time ?.if you don't want to stop printing....like Maria said....add sugar to taste and have a snack {;-) Now, the flour I use comes from a real old bag I have had for like..forever....(10 years !!!) and is only used for this kinda stuff of course. It is Pillsbury Best XXXX Bread Flour Enriched-Bromated.....wow...that's a long description ! I don't even know if they make this stuff anymore. It has lots of vitamins and stuff...(to keep my prints strong !) and it is wheat-flour based ..does not say anything about added preservatives {;-( Other flours may behave diffrerently...once I was in a bind...and I used baby rice-cereal instead. Anyways....did you guys know that hanga has medicinal and healing powers ? Yeap...I was carving last night...one, two, three..then I realized four hours had gone by...w/o a pain, without the nasty cough that's been ripping my guts apart (laparascopy surgery is not as minor or painless as the brochure leads you to believe!)......I even forgot all about my surgery.....I think foucsing on the task at hand and crouching over/forward for carving must have been the ideal medicine!!!!!! Congrats to Marilynn and family.... Barbara I see your point...good...The calendar thingie is open for discussion.....this is the time to talk about it.... thanks....Julio ------------------------------ From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:35:57 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20659] good puzzling news! The penultimate block has made it safely to Agda in Belgium! Maybe there is hope for our Italian journey after all. More news, comin' round the bend--ahead of them all in an incredible feat of effort--she's ahead by a nose...a head...an entire length...SHE WINS SHE WINS SHE WINNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSS!!!! :-) Sharri LaPierre's block is back already and it is delicioussss! (and thank you for your generous contribution to the project coffers). Once I get back from Scottsdale I will put up a mapped image of the empty slots and upload the blocks as they come in. No, I really don't have any clue how I'm gonna do dat...I think I will use CuteMap from the Globalscape family. Anybody else got a good image mapping software suggestion? My rice paste comes in a tube from McClain's...I'm so ashamed NOT! The colors for this first try were Koi watercolors strengthened with Akua dispersions; sometimes I used the Akua by themselves but they scared me because they were so--liquid. Charles, those sponge brushes are a marvel, I use them as daubers in oily ink too. Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango Las Vegas Nevada USA www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V22 #2120 *****************************