Baren Digest Monday, 13 January 2003 Volume 22 : Number 2092 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:27:42 EST Subject: [Baren 20396] Re: Print finished ... > http://woodblock.com/surimono/process/5/images/final_large.jpg That is one beautiful print!!! Those other people just dont get it. Sheeler also made wonderful art works of just such places a n d he was my Irvington neighbor... Carol Lyons ------------------------------ From: "April Vollmer" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:42:13 -0500 Subject: [Baren 20397] Play and Pray? That's pretty good, Maria! Gambling and Praying are the two activities we invented woodcut for! Does that relate in any way to the "Plug and Pray" devices on my computer? I believe the first eastern woodcuts were also made as praying devices, they were a way to repeat Buddhist prayers and sutras. Does anyone know more about this? the connection between early sacred ritual and woodcut? April www.aprilvollmer.com two of the immediate demands for the propagation possibilities of the woodcut were "votivas" (prayer cards) and playing cards for gambling. Both of these items needed to be handled repeatedly and withstand some abuse as they were designed for portability in players and prayers pockets. Western papers were ideally suited for this, being beefier than the traditional Japanese papers. As woodblock printing adjusted to its new environment, it was soon found that the waterbase pigment Japanese method was not suitable either for heavy handling nor for the Western paper. Thus oil-based inks were born! ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger Womack" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 08:21:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20398] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2091 Many art objects which depict illness and poverty are considered beautiful. For example, the photograph "Migrant Mother" by Dorothea Lange is considered beautiful. Also, the prints of Kathe Kollwitz. The prints of the German Expressionists and Goya prints show the miseryof war and yet are considered beautiful. Perhaps we are all a bit warped. We know what beautiful is because we were told when we were young that certain things are beautiful--it's a learned concept, not an innate one. > John and I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this point - can > a print be beautiful even though it doesn't depict a beautiful object? I > should emphasize that we didn't make this print with _any_ consideration > of political expression - we are not taking any stance on environmental > pollution, etc. etc.. There is no 'message' to be communicated here. We > simply attempted to make an object of physical beauty. > > I myself think we basically succeeded, but people to whom I showed this > print while it was 'under construction' said things like "Well, it's > nice, but I sure wish you had selected a more beautiful subject." > > I think these people perhaps 'don't get it', but then, what do _I_ know! > > Dave ------------------------------ From: G Wohlken Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:31:09 +0000 Subject: [Baren 20399] Beauty vs pretty ideas Dave, I wonder why people associate beauty only with flowers and pretty things. The print you just finished is to my eyes breathtakingly beautiful. Beauty is design and color, juxtapositions of shapes that rhyme yet move in their own direction. Beauty is not a pretty idea. Gayle Ohio >>but people to whom I showed this >>print while it was 'under construction' said things like "Well, it's >>nice, but I sure wish you had selected a more beautiful subject." >> >>I think these people perhaps 'don't get it', but then, what do _I_ know! >> >>Dave >> ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:43:28 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20400] Re: Print finished ... Of course a print can be beautiful even if the subject matter is not ... For example, I have just been looking at some Goya prints, some in a book I have, and some in the Victoria Art Gallery. The series "the horrors of war" depicts scenes that are far from beautiful ... men in chains, hanging corpses, etc. But his depictions are gripping, fascinating, and full of dark beauty. Historically, they have stood the test of time. I would not want a corpse hanging in my house, and I hope never to witness a hanging. But I would love to have the Goya prints on my wall. Cheers ........ Charles At 06:02 PM 1/12/03 +0900, you wrote: >can a print be beautiful even though it doesn't depict a beautiful object? ------------------------------ From: Sharri LaPierre Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:11:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20401] Re: Baren Digest V22 #2091 My answer to Dave's question is Applause, Applause to all three of you. Of course, in my twisted mind, I think a paper mill IS a beautiful subject (environmental considerations aside). The design and composition are superb, the colors are luscious, and the printing is masterful. What is not beautiful, commendable, wonderous, etc?? I have always wondered at people who could only see beauty in the Madison Avenue prescribed version, but that is their loss - we need to help them so they can appreciate beauty in places they never dreamed possible, enriching their lives immeasurably. Congratulations on a great project and thanks for sharing with all of us. Cheers, Sharri ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:41:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 20402] beauty Dave, I think this is a luscious print....I can't wait to see the real thing! Certainly there are some images I would not want on my walls, but this one is fine. Why would anyone want to think you could have chosen better. There is such power and contrast and great line and organic shape in this image. Hard to find all those in sweet imagery. congratulations on a good job! Barbara ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 10:44:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 20403] exchange 15 cases These are the people I have for a case for #15. If you want one and your name is not here, let me know. I am ordering them tomorrow morning early! Best to all, Barbara Francisco Truba 1/6/2003 Maria Arango 1/6/2003 Julio 1/7/2003 Mike Lyon 1/7/2003 nancy osadchuk 1/7/2003 Barbara Mason 1/6/2003 Joe Sheridan 1/7/2003 Bea Gold 1/7/2003 Jean Eger Womak 1/9/2003 carol baker 1/9/2003 Janet Hollander 1/9/2003 carol Meyers 1/9/2003 Rich Campbell 1/9/2003 Kat Pukas 1/10/2003 JD Rorhig 1/10/2003 Gilda Zimerling 1/10/2003 Jeanne Chase 1/10/2003 gayle wohlken 1/10/2003 Brian Lockyear 1/10/2003 Suzi Martin 1/11/2003 ------------------------------ From: slinders#attbi.com Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 12:43:04 -0600 Subject: [Baren 20404] Re: Print finished ... The print is a monument of craftsmanship as well as artistry! I can't get beyond the wonder of 'keeping the stars shining' through all of those blocks and inkings! ~Sharen ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:03:17 +0900 Subject: [Baren 20405] Re: Print finished ... Thanks for the comments on the collaborative print, both here on [Baren] and off-list ... Charles wrote: > ... some Goya prints ... men in chains, hanging corpses, etc. Those prints though, had a very specific _reason_ for showing such ugly objects. They were political statements, and _needed_ to show the horror and ugliness, in order to make a point. But when there is no point to be made? That was my question - when there is no specific _reason_ for the ugliness, can it still be worth showing? Of course I answered it myself by making the print - John and I felt that the object was worthy of depiction ... I was just curious what viewpoints others would have ... *** Sharen wrote: > the wonder of 'keeping the stars shining' > through all of those blocks and inkings! At the end of the description, I was going to put a comment something like: "Now for a bit of a challenge - can you find the places where the original paper has been left untouched?!" Those of course are the star 'holes' in the sky block (The stars are not printed, but simply untouched paper). They came out well, for the same reason that I outlined on the description pages - Iwano-san's paper is _very_ stable. You can push it and stretch it and do whatever you want, but a couple of hours later it always comes back to where it was before. At one place down near the horizon, the sky block got three impressions - light blue, rose, and deep blue - and there is one bright star shining through them all (none of the water, paste or pigment went in there ...) http://woodblock.com/surimono/process/5/images/step35b.jpg Dave ------------------------------ From: "Carol Myers" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:20:56 -0500 Subject: [Baren 20406] ?numbering editions for me, this question is a little premature, but I'll ask anyway-does one number the editions for the exchanges? If so, do you only print an edition of 31 or do you number the edition, and send the first 31 for the exchange? Thanks to all who sent condolences on my Father's death. I'm back now from sunny COLD Florida and can turn my attention back to this exchange. Carol Myers in really cold Indy ------------------------------ From: Barbara Mason Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:26:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 20407] Re: ?numbering editions Carol, It is up to you and you can print more if you like. Your choice about numbering, some people do not. Best to you, Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 18:29:57 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20408] Re: Print finished ... > But when there is no point to be made? That was my question - when there > is no specific _reason_ for the ugliness, can it still be worth > showing? Of course I answered it myself by making the print - John and > I felt that the object was worthy of depiction ... I was just curious > what viewpoints others would have ... "Ask a toad: what is beauty? .a female with two great round eyes coming out of her little head, a large flat mouth, a yellow belly and a brown, warty back."--Voltaire Dave, I'm afraid with that question the "non-artist" in you is showing! :-) I, like many others have mentioned, have come to admire the way many artists (both old and new) have shown us the "beauty" of war and bullfights and other ugly things. It is at times the job of the artist, in this case the artist-team, to do so. Hats off to you both! Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango Las Vegas Nevada USA www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 11:37:46 +0900 Subject: [Baren 20409] Re: Print finished ... Maria aka wrote: > Dave, I'm afraid with that question the "non-artist" in you is > showing! :-) Thank you! :-) By the way, seeing your name reminded me ... some of your woodpeople have escaped! You can find them in the 'Original Woodblock Prints' section of Suezan Aikins website ... http://www.suezan-aikins.com Dave ------------------------------ From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)" Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:27:29 -0800 Subject: [Baren 20410] Re: Print finished ... > By the way, seeing your name reminded me ... some of your woodpeople > have escaped! You can find them in the 'Original Woodblock Prints' > section of Suezan Aikins website ... > > http://www.suezan-aikins.com Nice website and beautiful woodblocks! Well, my woodpeople like to travel and sneak into other people's heads :-) Seriously, I always find it both reassuring and annoying to find someone else exploring the same type of ideas. On the one hand, if someone else found an idea worth exploring then I must be on the right track to the elusive artist's kingdom. On the other hand, dang! you always want to be the only one exploring an original idea, no matter how impossible that is in reality. There are gazillions of artists out there, alive and dead, that have probably explored all there is, but most of us just keep trying to come up with something new and exciting... Maria <||><||><||><||><||><||> Maria Arango Las Vegas Nevada USA www.1000woodcuts.com <||><||><||><||><||><||> ------------------------------ From: Chris Bremmer Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:00:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Baren 20411] Thin waterbased ink or use damp paper? I'm using Graphic Chemical waterbased inks. It seems very thick and doesn't flow like I'd like it. My arm is worn out by the 5th print! I'm wondering what the proper procedure is when printing. Should I be printing on dampened paper? Should I use "extender" or whatever they call it to thin the ink to a desirable consistancy? Or maybe do both? Thanks, Chris ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V22 #2092 *****************************