Baren Digest              Sunday, 24 November 2002      Volume 21 : Number 2038


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:10:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19927] Re: Baren Digest V21 #2037 

Thank you Mike Lyon for the job of scanning and placing the prints for 14a 
on the website.  I know an extra exchange is extra work but this one seems 
to have been well worth it.  Hope everyone else loves these prints as much 
as I do. And if I did not do this with a sense of humor it would not be the 
same.  We should enjoy our art and all parts of it.
Marilynn Smith
Nahcotta, Washington


------------------------------

From: Cucamongie#aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:30:59 EST
Subject: [Baren 19928] Jeanne's hanga post 

Hi all.  Jeanne, if you have any sumi ink, I would try using that to get a 
nice rich black.  You can also printing the same block several times so you 
have several layers.
Thanks all for your nice words about my sheepy print-
happy printing!
Sarah

------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19929] framing 

We were talking of framing on after-5 but think this is a a topic that
belongs on the main list so we can all whine about it. Gayle, I am quoting
you here without your permission so I apologize in advance:

Gayle said,  I feel this framing problem is
holding me back from getting my work out there.  I notice people were
willing to buy the work when it was under $100 since I sold five of them
at that show.  However, I want the framing to be archival and only two
of the sold ones were framed professionally and archivally.

Framing is very expensive if you pay someone to do it for you. A sheet of
100% rag matboard costs $8.17 wholesale if you buy 25 at a time. 32x40
inches in size and this does not include the foam core. My solution is to do
it all myself. When I had a small studio, I saved it up, then cleaned
everything I could find up and put everything away and covered all surfaces
with brown paper....you know how easy it is to get ink on stuff in a
printmaking studio. Then I would drag out all the framing stuff and frame
for two days. Metal frames are faster to use and cheaper to buy. Now I have
a larger studio and have a space dedicated to clean and framing. I do use it
for other stuff, but never take ink in there, so it stays clean.

My suggestion is to get several artists together and form a framing coop.
Buy the simplomatic matcutter, not the cheapest one but the next one, about
$250-$300. It has the blade in holders that remove from the arm that holds
the matboard. This is the most accurate mat cutter for cutting center cuts I
have used and I have them all the way up to the $2000 Fletcher. I use my
expensive one for cutting foam core and it does cut a 60" cut so do use it
for really large stuff of which I have very little.

Find a frame wholesale place that will sell you matboard and frames
wholesale, keep looking until you do, even if you have to ship it in from
far away. All you need is a business licence or tax number to do this. You
do not usually need to buy in large quantities, My supplier will sell one
piece of matboard. However, they are nicer to you and more anxious to help
you if you make life easy for thm, so I tend to order only a couple of times
a year and order a lot at once. I always visit with the sales person so they
remember me....very important in business for them to remember you.

Who ever has the room stores the mat board and frames and you get together
and do the work. Framing is like cooking, you can learn to do it. If you are
really unsure, go take a class. Almost all frame shops offer them, or will
teach you one on one. Do simple frames and matts, anyone wanting fancy can
do it themselves after they buy it.

If you want to save money, you can put acid free interleaving between your
work and the foam core, saving the need to back work with expensive mat
board. It costs me $40 to frame a piece of work that is 20x24" in a metal
frame with archival materials. I use 100% rag mat, metal frames and linen
tape. I never use frame space as I would rather lift the mat with foam core
if I need it higher. I like the look of a mat, but that is my personal
choice. After 20 years I have gotten pretty good at this and anyone who
wants lessons, come on over! Wooden frames cost more and take longer to
frame, I think they are nicer, but I am selling prints, not frames.

I used to buy frames at wall mart and target. They were not expensive and
worked well for lots of years....they were inconsistant in color and style,
so that is why I finally went to all metal frames.
but they worked very well. You just had to be careful as sometimes they were
not as well made as one would like.

The only way to save money on this process is to do it yourself!
Best to all,
Barbara



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:21:42 -0600
Subject: [Baren 19930] Re: framing 

At 07:59 AM 11/23/2002 -0800, Barbara wrote:

><...snip...> Wooden frames cost more and take longer to
>frame, I think they are nicer, but I am selling prints, not frames.
><...snip...>The only way to save money on this process is to do it yourself!
>Best to all,
>Barbara


I was in mid-reply to Gayle when Barbara's came in (faster typer, Barbara 
is!) and I agree.  Couple of thoughts...

I use archival "museum board", for the mats and 'archival' foam core (with 
rag surfaces) for backs.  I prefer white/white, but the creams look good, 
too.  It's my aesthetic, I think, but I generally don't like metal 
frames.  I buy large-enough-for-discounts quantities of two colors of 
Arquati 'brevet' wood moulding, one in black and one in 'natural' wood tone 
(like yellow birch).  The mouldings are about 1 1/2" deep with a 3/4" face 
(more or less).  I use a power chop-saw to cut the miters, but it's an 
expensive tool $300+ -- not-quite-as-good results can be had with a hand 
saw and miter frame.  I cut the stock to size, (use a sharpie marker to 
darken the white inside surfaces of the black mouldings), then a cheap ~$7 
framer's vice (holds two pieces at right angles) to glue up each of the 
corners.  I use a pneumatic pin-nailer to 'invisibly' pin the corners, four 
pins per corner.  That's another expensive set of tools, $120 for the gun, 
more for the compressor to drive it.  Similar function can be had with a $5 
hand-drill and 1/32" bit and then tap brads into the holes and fill 
them.  Takes me less than 10 minutes to build a frame of <any> size from 
scratch, including a UV plexi 'glass' which I cut on my $$$$$ table saw, 
and the results are 'professional'.  If I don't count the cost of all that 
equipment and my labor, a 16x20" frame costs about $12.

Mike

Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 



------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 08:46:07 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19931] Re: framing 

 Takes me less than 10 minutes to build a frame of <any> size from

> scratch, including a UV plexi 'glass' which I cut on my $$$$$ table saw,
> and the results are 'professional'.  If I don't count the cost of all that
> equipment and my labor, a 16x20" frame costs about $12.
> Mike


Ok Mike, get ready for the order to come in...we all want these
frames....heheheheh
some of us are power tool challenged, you know!
Barbara



------------------------------

From: <Philip238#copper.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 09:26:03 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19932] FRAMES 



Well Mike and Barbara, here's one for you. Yesterday I
got a shipment in of 13 frames [16 by 20], the 13 was to
make the $100 minimum this company has. Not being a
frame aficionado, they look great to me and only $7.95
each. They are 3" moldings and nicely finished, I got
white-wash. The company's name is Wholesale Art and
Frame Ltd. They are at: www.whslartframe.com check them
out, 'might be interesting. No resale # required either.
They a Florida company. I ordered from their Calif.
office.
It took UPS 3 days to get them to me.
Good luck,
Philip
Hammond, OR
USA


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 12:28:56 -0600
Subject: [Baren 19933] Re: FRAMES 

 you wrote:

>Well Mike and Barbara, here's one for you. Yesterday I got a shipment in 
>of 13 frames [16 by 20], the 13 was to make the $100 minimum this company 
>has. Not being a frame aficionado, they look great to me and only $7.95 
>each. They are 3" moldings and nicely finished, I got white-wash. The 
>company's name is Wholesale Art and Frame Ltd. They are at: 
><http://www.whslartframe.com>www.whslartframe.com check them out, 'might 
>be interesting. No resale # required either. They a Florida company. I 
>ordered from their Calif. office.
>It took UPS 3 days to get them to me.
>Good luck,
>Philip
>Hammond, OR
>USA


Great sale on used framing equipment coming soon!


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 10:14:43 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19935] Re: FRAMES 

Phillip,
The price is right but they are too fancy for me, I want gallery 
molding, plain, trim and thin, nothing that takes an iota away from the 
print...but I did use frames sort of like this at one time. I have just 
changed my taste. These look good, but you still have to mat the work, 
unfortunaltely. There used to be a place in Oregon that you could order 
cut mats...let me see if they are still around...yes, here is the url 
http://www.documounts.com/ They used to cut mats to order and also the 
inside cuts...I have not dealt with them for a long time, they were 
bought out by beard's framing, a big Portland company a few years ago so 
I have no idea of the service now, but take a look.
Best to all,
Barbara
>  : www.whslartframe.com check them out, 'might be interesting. No 
>resale # required either. They a Florida company. I ordered from their 
>Calif. office.
>  It took UPS 3 days to get them to me.
>  Philip



------------------------------

From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:44:32 EST
Subject: [Baren 19936] Re: Blacks 

Hi,
My discovery of the week is using Artisan water mixable oil painting medium( 
WN) with gouache.  Just a few drops of the oil into the gouache has made me 
feel much better. 
  
I have already used all the usual additives and unusual ones but this seems 
easiest.

It also depends on the wood and your paper.

There is also a line of Artisan water mixable oil colors (WN) and a similar 
line by Grumbacher.. I think it is worth trying.
Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY

------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:14:19 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19937] water soluble? or not 

Carol,
Be sure to clean your blocks well, do not think that this artesian medium
will not set up like a rock just because it is watersoluble. When dry it is
not. So do not let ink mixed with most stuff that says "watersoluble" dry on
your blocks....or you will have nice blocks with the lines all filled in
like cement.
Best to all,
Barbara


> My discovery of the week is using Artisan water mixable oil painting

medium(

> WN) with gouache.  Just a few drops of the oil into the gouache has made

me

> feel much better.
> There is also a line of Artisan water mixable oil colors (WN) and a

similar

> line by Grumbacher.. I think it is worth trying.
> Carol Lyons
> Irvington, NY




------------------------------

From: "Robert Canaga Gallery" <rcg#robertcanagagallery.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:56:04 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19938] Re: water soluble? or not 

Hi, That stuff is made from a modified linseed oil mix with a synthetic
lethicyn(sic) so it will take water...think of mayonnaise.
I will acidify as it ages so it may hurt your paper after while.
RC

------------------------------

From: <Philip238#copper.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 14:06:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19939] Frames and mats 

Yes Barbara, Documounts here in Oregon is a good place
to shop. You just tell them the image size and they will
cut the mats, whatever color or width, double or single
mat.
They are not much on sales, as I recall, but very
helpful.
Philip
Hammond, OR
USA


------------------------------

From: Milky Scarabs <milkyscarabs#earthlink.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:03:57 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19940] so many good tips on becoming an ideal exchange participant! 


>Was it little leprechauns who sorted recounted rechecked and sealed all 
>those packages for 14a? 


marilynn,
thanks so much for sharing your print coordination experiences... it 
gives me a more clear idea of what issues may come up for me at the end 
of january when i'm putting together the packages for #15!  *crossing my 
fingers*  :)  i hope -all- participants (past, present, and future) have 
read through what you "learned" and have taken copious notes on it! ;)

looking forward to seeing #14a!!!  (...and #15!) :D

- -- 
love <3 & lint * !
kat, exchange #15 coordinator
http://home.earthlink.net/~milkyscarabs



------------------------------

From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:59:55 EST
Subject: [Baren 19941] Re: water soluble? or not 

Hi,
About the cement which was predicted-- None so far   All week long I have 
been using Artisan water mixable oil medium with gouache  and have had no 
problem.   Sometimes I leave it on the 
block for a few hours or overnight (!)  and then wash it off the next day 
when I change color schemes.

I am using Luan because it is a wood with fine line texture which prints 
well.  

What can I say? That is my experience.

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY



------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:42:28 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19942] Re: water soluble? or not 

Carol,
You lucked out....I would certainly not leave it on over night, you were
just lucky the mixture was not enough to dry..it would eventually and not
come out. Just a warning that everything that says watersoluble does not
mean it will rewet and come off...Elmers glue is watersoluble......
Glad you had no problems!
Barbara


> Hi,
> About the cement which was predicted-- None so far   All week long I have
> been using Artisan water mixable oil medium with gouache  and have had no
> problem.   Sometimes I leave it on the
> block for a few hours or overnight (!)  and then wash it off the next day
> when I change color schemes.
>
> I am using Luan because it is a wood with fine line texture which prints
> well.
>
> What can I say? That is my experience.
>
> Carol Lyons
> Irvington, NY
>
>




------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <lbmason71#attbi.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 15:42:28 -0800
Subject: [Baren 19943] Re: water soluble? or not

Carol,
You lucked out....I would certainly not leave it on over night, you were
just lucky the mixture was not enough to dry..it would eventually and not
come out. Just a warning that everything that says watersoluble does not
mean it will rewet and come off...Elmers glue is watersoluble......
Glad you had no problems!
Barbara


> Hi,
> About the cement which was predicted-- None so far   All week long I have
> been using Artisan water mixable oil medium with gouache  and have had no
> problem.   Sometimes I leave it on the
> block for a few hours or overnight (!)  and then wash it off the next day
> when I change color schemes.
>
> I am using Luan because it is a wood with fine line texture which prints
> well.
>
> What can I say? That is my experience.
>
> Carol Lyons
> Irvington, NY
>
>




------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 23:25:20 -0600
Subject: [Baren 19944] Sheep & map update...... 11/23/2002 11:30:39 PM 

The participants list has been updated with Louise, Elizabeth & Myron. Also
a couple of duplicates were removed. We are sitting at 42 participants but
with a month left on the signup period....please make sure you check back
often for the full
final list.

http://www.skokienet.org/bandits/jcrstuff/blacksheep/

Also we have four days left to party.....and we are about 17 short to make a full 
100 on the BarenMap...so if you have not
posted to the map...do it now and help meet our goal...

http://pub15.bravenet.com/guestmap/view.php?usernum=1239044438

thanks for playing along.......Julio



------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V21 #2038
*****************************