Baren Digest             Wednesday, 2 October 2002     Volume 21 : Number 1978


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 08:21:28 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19362] EXCHANGE 15 OPENS IN ABOUT 90 MINUTES ! 

Sign-up for [Baren Exchange 15] (all 
moku-hanga)  http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html will 
begin in approximately 90 minutes minutes!

Exchange 15 DETAILS:

MEDIUM: Traditional Japanese polychrome wood block print (hand rubbed with 
baren, multi-block, water color pigments, Japanese printmaking paper)

PAPER: washi (Japanese paper)

FORMAT: chu-tanzaku a standard paper dimension measuring from a minimum of 
15 x 5 inches (38 x 12.7 cm) to a maximum of 15 1/2 x 5 1/4 inches (39.4 x 
13.3 cm). It is half of an oban sheet cut lengthwise and usually designed 
with the long dimension running vertically...

REGISTRATION PERIOD: One month starting October 1, 2002 (or until 30 
participants are enrolled -- exchange #14 participants who sign up will be 
wait-listed during the first week of sign-up in order to give others a 
better chance)

WORK PERIOD: Three months starting November 1, 2002

DEADLINE FOR FINISHED PRINTS: February 1st, 2003

A page of RULES for participants has been set up at 
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/rules.html   Please read them carefully 
before deciding to apply for participation. Prints that do not meet the 
published specification will be rejected from the exchange and returned to 
the maker. No exceptions.

SIGN-UP BEGINS at 3:00 p.m. of October 1st (GMT). 
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html All interested 
members may sign up at that time, however those members who participated in 
the previous exchange (#14) will appear on the "Waiting List" list for the 
first week of sign-up (through 2:59:59 p.m. of October 8th (GMT) in order 
to encourage broadest participation in each exchange.

Note: the actual moment of startup has been selected in order that the 
largest possible number of [Baren] members will be awake. Given the global 
range of our group this is difficult, but the huge width of the Pacific 
Ocean gives us a 'window' of opportunity; while the Pacific sleeps, the 
rest of the world is awake. So here is a rough guide to the time...

3:00 pm GMT is about 5 am in Honolulu, 8 am in Los Angeles, 10 am in 
Chicago and Mexico, 11 am in New York, noon for Brazilians, 4 pm in London, 
6 pm in Israel and Athens, afternoon/evening for those in Europe and the 
Middle East, 11 pm in Hong Kong and Perth, Australia, midnight in Japan and 
1 am on October 2 in Sydney, Australia...

When calculating the exact moment of sign-up for your particular time zone, 
please remember that GMT does not change during the summer; it is a 
year-round stable base of reference. If your local zone does use summer 
time, you will have to make the necessary adjustment ... If you are 
confused about how to find the correct time, please visit the Time Zone 
Converter page for assistance.

After the first week, at 3:00 p.m., those who were placed on the Waiting 
List because they participated in the previous exchange will be added to 
the end of the list. Subsequent sign-ups will be appended to the list in 
the order they were time-stamped by our server. The first thirty who signed 
up will appear in the "Subscription list" and the rest will appear in the 
"Waiting List".

(Anyone who will be 'on holiday' or away from their computer during their 
particular sign-up period should make arrangements with a friend to make 
the sign-up for them.)

SIGN UP FOR EXCHANGE 15 HERE: 
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html

Sincerely,

Mike Lyon

PS If you experience problems or notice mistakes or inconsistencies during 
sign-up, please let me know by emailing mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com -- thanks!



Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:05:34 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19363] MOKU-HANGA EXCHANGE 15 SIGN-UP IS OPEN !!! 

The all moku-hanga exchange [Baren Exchange 15] is officially open for 
sign-up at
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html

Good luck!

Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

------------------------------

From: "daved" <daved#vokurka.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:28:13 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19364] Re: copper, etc. 

Hello, I've been using 16 gauge copper for several years now with an
edinburough etch (Ferric Chloride and citric acid crystals) Copper cuts with
a burin and dry point like nothing else and the edinburough etch provides a
reliable clean etch, although it is slower than nitric and Dutch mordent it
is safer. Daved of Seattle
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Morgan" <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
To: <baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:52 AM
Subject: [Baren 19349] copper, etc.


> Thanks everyone for your helpful replies concerning copper vs steel for
> etching. I will try to track down the sources you have suggested.
>
> Cheers .... Charles
>
>




------------------------------

From: Sharri LaPierre <Barebonesart#attbi.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:36:04 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19365] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1977 

I can't stand it! I have to implore those who are still printing with 
Speedball inks to give it up, please. It breaks my heart to see a 
beautiful image,  wonderfully cut and the printing is less than it could 
be.  What could be an outstanding print is, instead, at best mediocre. 
It is so disheartening. Please? Just try other inks and see if you 
aren't happier with the result.  There, that feels better. Thank you for 
letting me get that off my chest. Now, I will try and keep that issue 
out of view :-)
Sharri

------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan#uvic.ca>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 10:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19366] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1977 

Can you suggest an ink that will improve my conceptual apparatus and my 
carving ability ????

O.K., O.K.,  just joking .... ;-)}}}}

Cheers ........ Charles

At 09:36 AM 10/1/02 -0700, you wrote:

>I can't stand it! I have to implore those who are still printing with 
>Speedball inks to give it up, please. It breaks my heart to see a 
>beautiful image,  wonderfully cut and the printing is less than it could 
>be.  What could be an outstanding print is, instead, at best mediocre. It 
>is so disheartening. Please? Just try other inks and see if you aren't 
>happier with the result.  There, that feels better. Thank you for letting 
>me get that off my chest. Now, I will try and keep that issue out of view :-)
>Sharri



------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:24:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19367] Re: Graphic vs DS Inks 

My experience and practice is much the same as John Center's.

I use only black, so have no experience with DS water-soluble colors.  The 
water-soluble black tends not to have as much color density as DS oil-based 
black.  However, I was recently surprised by  the excellent results I got 
when using DS water-soluble black to proof a 15 x 18 inch block.  I proof 
on Moriki, which has the advantage of not needing to be dampened.  On 
Japanese papers generally the water-based works relatively well.  But one 
of the advantages/disadvantages of the fact that the water-based is less 
dense is that it shows up much more of what is on the block--that little 
hairlike blemish, for instance, which the oil-based ink fills in.

Myron Turner

At 08:53 PM 30/09/2002 -0400, you wrote:

>i have proofed with ds water based ink on corian    i don't like it for
>editions but for prooking on corian it is ok   the clean up makes up for the
>less than acceptable printing.   Tells me what is in the block  and clean up
>with soap and water is the only plus.  For editoning i like oil based ink
>prints much better.  I like graphic chemical ink works great and is a better
>price than ds.   ds is over priced and the quality is not better.
>
>john center



------------------------------

From: "lmhtwb" <lmhtwb#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:48:31 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19368] Hanga Design  

Okay, since your's truly has, perhaps foolishly, signed up for the Hanga
exchange, I have a question or two.

Today's question concerns designs.  I found out quickly with Western relief
printing that having large open areas (and a small roller), no borders
around the plate, and large expanses of solid color can all lead to problems
when printing.  Yes, they can be overcome, but when starting out, they can
all be a headache.

Now, with hanga, I have no idea what problems might be lurking for me when I
create my design.  And I would like not to create problems for myself at
least for my first attempts.  So, are there any design issues that are more
tricky than others when it comes to printing?

>From the video Mike Lyon sent me, it looks like large areas aren't too much
of problem.  Large empty areas are a bit tricky because you have to leave
support for the paper but this can't be inked.  But what about thin little
lines?  When I think of hanga, I think of the Japanese prints with their
colored areas neatly seperated with thin black lines.  Are they hard to
print nicely?  Where the heck do you put the pigment and paste on them?

Linda


------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew#tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:11:44 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19369] Carol, HELP 

Hey Carol, all me e-mails to you keep bouncing, even when doing a reply.
I'm trying to send you my resume.

d. dew 

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:08:40 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19370] Re: Hanga Design 10/01/2002 02:12:42 PM 

Linda writes:
"...When I think of hanga, I think of the Japanese prints with their
colored areas neatly seperated with thin black lines.  Are they hard to
print nicely?  Where the heck do you put the pigment and paste on them?"

Linda, you don't   {;-)

I mean not specifically on the lines....you drop some pigment and paste
unto the block and the swirling around
motion of the large (shoe-brush-like) brush gets the lines inked....the
carving around the lines should be deep enough
2-3 mm so that none of the extra mess gets on your paper.

This is a lot easier said than done. It is also a function of many
variables....how big an open area you have for the
baren to travel, how wet is the paper (will it sag ?), how you brush off
the extra pigment from the lines, how big is your
baren or other printing tool ( spoon, doorknob, etc...)...and most
importantly the quality of your baren and how flat you
keep it when printing. Here is where that straight down force from the
shoulder & the elbow comes into play....keeping the baren flat and not
letting it dip into unwanted areas.

You and Mike already covered large areas...so instead I'll mention the
other thing that I think is a challenge. Because in hanga you are mostly
working with transparent colors, the design "challenge" is in designing and
cutting color blocks
that take advantage of  multi color overlays. Ex.,  You cut 2 blocks but
get three colors out of it !!! Toshi Yoshida's book has many excellent
examples. Mike Lyon has a webpage with the same block images.  Mike ?

thanks...Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)




------------------------------

From: jimandkatemundie#juno.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:33:50 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19371] even more woodcut links 

Here are some more woodcut image links I turned up this afternoon (ya
gotta love Google).

Back in July a bunch of links popped up on Baren for printmaker and
illustrator Mary Azarian's woodcuts, but I don't recall seeing this one:
http://www.maryazarian.com/index.html Two woodcut artists on the pages of Chinese Art Net 
in New York:

Yang Rui's Chinese-style woodcuts: 
http://www.chineseartnet.com/yangrui/home.htm and more of the same by Lu Ping:
http://www.chineseartnet.com/LuPing/lp3.htm  At the 'high end' of the market, check 
out these prints by Sean Scully (and the prices!): http://www.garnertullis.com/artists/scully.htm 
And lastly, from a somewhat unusual source, an article by Margaret Adams
Parker called "Fixing the Moment" about how she translates sketches into
woodcuts: http://www.episcopalchurch.org/episcopal-life/01dec/how.html


Regards,
James Mundie
http://missioncreep.com/mundie/index.htm

------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis#aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:53:23 EDT
Subject: [Baren 19372] Re: even more woodcut links 

 my least favorite prints were the very expensive ones     i wonder if the 
chinese watercolor prints are done in the same process that bea and ray 
hudson are using???
georga

------------------------------

From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:29:48 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19373] Re: Hanga Design  

Good luck, Linda

I purposely did not sign up for the hanga as I did not want to embarrass
myself. It is still a mystery to me e , even reading volumes about hanga. I
want to see it done with my own eyes. I still don't know much about the rice
paste etc. Graham is a great source of info as is the Baren on Hanga.
hanga in there!!!!

Jeanne N.


------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew#tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:46:27 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19374] Re: even more woodcut links 

Hey, what about my stuff?  :-(

P.S. I do reductions and use Speedball :-)  :-)   :-)   :-)   :-)  :-)


Daniel L. Dew
Suncoast Equipment Funding Corporation
http://www.dandew.com/
ddew#tampabay.rr.com

> From: jimandkatemundie#juno.com
> Reply-To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:33:50 -0500
> To: baren#ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Subject: [Baren 19371] even more woodcut links
> 
> Here are some more woodcut image links I turned up this afternoon (ya
> gotta love Google).
> 
> Back in July a bunch of links popped up on Baren for printmaker and
> illustrator Mary Azarian's woodcuts, but I don't recall seeing this one:
> http://www.maryazarian.com/index.html
> 
> Two woodcut artists on the pages of Chinese Art Net in New York:
> 
> Yang Rui's Chinese-style woodcuts:
> http://www.chineseartnet.com/yangrui/home.htm
> 
> and more of the same by Lu Ping:
> http://www.chineseartnet.com/LuPing/lp3.htm
> 
> At the 'high end' of the market, check out these prints by Sean Scully
> (and the prices!): http://www.garnertullis.com/artists/scully.htm
> 
> And lastly, from a somewhat unusual source, an article by Margaret Adams
> Parker called "Fixing the Moment" about how she translates sketches into
> woodcuts: 
> http://www.episcopalchurch.org/episcopal-life/01dec/how.html
> 
> 
> Regards,
> James Mundie
> http://missioncreep.com/mundie/index.htm



------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria#mariarango.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:48:20 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19375] Re: Hanga Design  

Jeanne wrote:

> Good luck, Linda
>
> I purposely did not sign up for the hanga as I did not want to embarrass
> myself. It is still a mystery to me e , even reading volumes
> about hanga. I
> want to see it done with my own eyes. I still don't know much
> about the rice (snip)


Me, I want to embarrass myself! I signed up although I will be on the second
list since I participated in X14.

Linda, probably the best source of moku-hanga step by step instruction is in
the Baren Encyclopedia. There are several books written by masters in the
field that you can download and print if you wish. Pictures, detailed
descriptions, whats and whys, you name it!
Just go http://barenforum.org and click on the Encyclopedia/Library pages.
It's a treasure trove in there!

Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria#mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: "lmhtwb" <lmhtwb#prodigy.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:48:22 -0700
Subject: [Baren 19376] Re: Hanga Design  

From: "Jeanne N.


> I purposely did not sign up for the hanga as I did not want to embarrass
> myself.


I'll probably end up embarassing myself, but then again, if I do some
abstract design, they won't know what is a mistake and what isn't!   Hmm,
there's a thought.  Besides, if I didn't sign up for, I would never get
around to actually trying it, as something else is always more pressing.


> I still don't know much about the rice
> paste etc.


Me neither, but on McClains web site is this paste in a tube.  It may cost
more than cooking some flour (or whatever), but I do think it will solve
that particular problem.

Linda
founder of salon de embarras


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:18:23 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19377] Re: Hanga Design 

For some odd reason, I never received that Hanga Design post... How unusual!

The web pages Julio mentioned have moved and may now be accessed from: 
http://www.lyonartltd.com -- the link is called something like "Toshi 
Yoshida's Color Overprinting Practice Blocks"...  There's a second link 
there describing wood grain printing using an oak plank...

There are TWENTY people signed up for the all-hanga exchange 15 as of a 
minute or two ago...  If you want to be part of this exchange, better visit 
the sign-up page right away...  you can find it here:
http://www.barenforum.org/exchange/exchange_sign-up.html

Mike


At 02:08 PM 10/1/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>You and Mike already covered large areas...so instead I'll mention the
>other thing that I think is a challenge. Because in hanga you are mostly
>working with transparent colors, the design "challenge" is in designing and
>cutting color blocks
>that take advantage of  multi color overlays. Ex.,  You cut 2 blocks but
>get three colors out of it !!! Toshi Yoshida's book has many excellent
>examples. Mike Lyon has a webpage with the same block images.  Mike ?
>
>thanks...Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 


------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis#aol.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:53:08 EDT
Subject: [Baren 19378] Re: even more woodcut links 

dan
   your work is amazing
georga

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:56:39 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19379] Re: even more woodcut links 10/01/2002 07:00:41 PM 

Yeah Dan, I second that....is amazing what you do with those 3$#(m2*&
inks.....oops, sorry...just kidding Dan.I know you
love your Speedball.

Julio



------------------------------

From: "Carol Myers" <carollm#concentric.net>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:19:57 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19380] lurker comes forward

Hello, all. I have been lurking on this list for several months now. I'm
fairly new to woodblock printmaking, although I was a printmaking major in
school (too many years ago to mention!) I've been so intrigued to hear about
the exchanges that I couldn't stand NOT to sign up for this exchange.
Eek,I've never printed in the hanga method, but surely I can learn?! I'm
sure you'll hear more from me as I try this new (to me) technique. Thanks
already for all of the interesting information and web sites.

Carol L Myers
carollm#concentric.net


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 22:28:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19381] Hardwood / softwood question for Linda 

Hey, Linda H, if you're out there...  You gave me a terrific description of 
wood types and the differences between hardwood and softwood and open and 
closed grain hardwoods...  I can't remember everything you told me, but I 
thought it was great!  Would you repeat your description on-line?  Thanks!

Mike


mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com

------------------------------

From: Aqua4tis#aol.com
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:52:37 EDT
Subject: [Baren 19382] Re: lurker comes forward 

welcome carol
georga

------------------------------

From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:36:07 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19383] Re: Hanga Design 

Linda

As to; "if I do some abstract design,in hanga they wont know what is a
mistake or what isn't!"  Good idea!!! But if I go Hanga, I do people, then
my people would end up like Picassos, with three eyes, etc. (I guess that
would not be too bad)
You are right though, this makes you get into the Hanga printing, which I
have been avoiding now for three years. I am at home with the oily stuff.
So , good for you. If there is not a full sign up or I might get on the
waiting list, do a Hanga, and maybe it might make it.
I do not know if Graham is on the Baren or not, but he has been nagging me
(in a nice way), to get into Hanga printing.
Good Luck
Jeanne N.




------------------------------

From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc#prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:40:54 -0400
Subject: [Baren 19384] Re: even more woodcut links  

I think Dan is being paid by the Speedball people.
Is there anyone out there who also uses Speedball ink?(and loves it like
Dan)
Kidding aside, your work is wonderful, I only hope it is still visible in 25
years.

Jeanne N.


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 06:44:53 -0500
Subject: [Baren 19385] Re: Hanga Design 

Hey, Jeanne!  I don't think Graham is on the Baren, but I happily add my 
encouragement to his -- it appears that Exchange 15 will be <mostly> first 
time hanga printers so you'll be in good company...  there will be quite a 
number of 1st time hanga printers in this exchange -- so this may be just 
the incentive you've been waiting for, so go ahead...  SIGN UP !!

:o)

Mike

At 07:36 AM 10/2/2002 -0400, Jeanne N. Chase wrote:

><snip>...
>You are right though, this makes you get into the Hanga printing, which I
>have been avoiding now for three years. I am at home with the oily stuff.
>So , good for you. If there is not a full sign up or I might get on the
>waiting list, do a Hanga, and maybe it might make it.
>I do not know if Graham is on the Baren or not, but he has been nagging me
>(in a nice way), to get into Hanga printing.
>Good Luck
>Jeanne N.



Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 


------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V21 #1978
*****************************