Baren Digest Wednesday, 25 September 2002 Volume 20 : Number 1971 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Louise Cass Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:00:16 -0400 Subject: [Baren 19317] Re: variable humidity I agree with John and in any case it isn't at all likely there will be a problem with such small size blocks - plywood could be more of a problem since it's layered louise cass At 01:06 AM 9/24/02 EDT, you wrote: >how small will the pieces be? if small not a problem and besides the >blocks will be back were they came from. humidity causes wood to expand >but as they will be back home they will be back to normal. > >john > > http://www.LCassArt.com ------------------------------ From: "lmhtwb" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:53:32 -0700 Subject: [Baren 19318] Re: variable humidity Hey Marie, > WANTED: HUMIDITY EXPERTS! I think I qualify for this one!!! Afterall, I dragged several thousand pounds of wood from Iowa to California. Hehehe. > Anyhow, my previous post was received by a knowledgeable and trusted source > who immediately warned me about warping. These blocks will travel to places > of various humidities, then travel back to my single humidity environment. > Having been split from their original stable whole, is it fair to assume > that warping will be a big problem? NO. (You never did take shop in high school, did you Marie?!) The whole is NOT more stable than a glued up panel. A section of cherry tree trunk is 99% guaranteed to split, check, and other nasties. Most hardwood will split when dried in chunks. The moisture in the wood cannot escape evenly enough to prevent cracking, especially is the wood contains the center pith, which is why sculptors make flitches out of tree trunks. Planks are cut green from logs and then, almost always, kiln dried. The kiln drying basically cooks out the water in the wood. When dried, the wood is basically stable. Yes, boards still warp and crack but thats because (a) the drying prossess was not thorough, (b) the board was unevenly exposed to moisture (such as in painting) or sunshine, or (c) there was a flaw in the wood, such as a knot-hole. Most kiln-drying operations rush the wood thru the process and remove the wood when most of the wood is dry enough. When a board cracks, it is because the moisture levels across a board is not even and the internal stresses excede the tensile strength of the wood, so it cracks. The way I understand it is that the intensity of the stresses is related to the ratio of endgrain area and volume of wood. As for glued up boards, they are very stable because each part is fairly small. They may bow but rarely do they check or crack, but the bowing is almost always do to uneven exposure to moisture or sunshine and tends to be self-correcting. I regularly have glued boards shipped to me from Ohio and Oregon and they are fine. As for changes in humidity, if the wood is dry in your studio, shipping it to a humid area will cause it to expand, but wood almost never cracks when humidity increases. And with 3/4 inch boards, it shouldn't warp. When the wood is shipped back to you, you may have to let it sit for a week or so to let the moisture level in the wood stabilize. The best method for this is to put the wood in plastic bags and forget about it. The plastic holds in moisture enough so there is no sudden shock with regards to humidity, but also allows moisture to escape and thus the wood dries slowly. I have done this with upto 14x14x24 inch chunks of walnut and chestnut shipped from Oregon and have never lost any wood. Personally, this would be overkill in my book since you are dealing with tiny bits of wood. > Would plywood be a more stable matrix? Plywood is more stable because the thin ply's are dried and then glued up. They are glued at 90 degree angles to each other which further adds to the stability. Namely, as layer 2 moves left-to-right, layer 3 tries to move up-and-down, so neither layer moves much. The main fault with plywood is the layers splitting along the glue layer and then seperating. This is usually caused by excessive moisture, not humidity, except maybe in Florida. Now should you use cherry or plywood for this project? That's totally up to you. Both would work just fine. Linda ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:07:31 -0500 Subject: [Baren 19319] Re: playing with wood Hey, Maria! Don't forget to sand those puppies flat and smooth before cutting them up and sending them off! They come from the mill looking real clean, but are always covered with those nasty little chatter marks from the rotating thickness planer blades they use to surface the boards... I use heavy duty electric right-angle random-orbital sanders and start with 80 grit which I use with the most attention and care (careful to sand the boards completely flat). Then I step through 120, 150, 220, 400, and finish up with worn-out 400 or better 'til the surface shines as if waxed. Mike At 05:20 PM 9/23/2002 -0700, you wrote: >The other woody issue is the wood for the puzzle. I am now in possession of >two gorgeous solid cherry blocks (joined panels 18 x 24 inches/45.72 x 60.96 >cm). Ladies and gentlemen, sharpen your tools! For those who have never cut >cherry before, it might seem at first a bit tougher than shina or birch. But >when you realize that there is no splintering and no crumbling and your cuts >can get as sinuous and sexy as you wish...oh my... >Anyhow, I thought the project was deserving of solid cherry wood. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:50:02 -0500 Subject: [Baren 19320] Re: variable humidity I don't believe that warping of these small 3/4" pieces of cherry is going to be a problem at all. Mike At 08:12 PM 9/23/2002 -0700, you wrote: >These blocks will travel to places >of various humidities, then travel back to my single humidity environment. >Having been split from their original stable whole, is it fair to assume >that warping will be a big problem? Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Baren 19321] RE: wood Thanks for all the info everyone on the wood warp issue. I will ignore my good friend's advice and go with the cherry. This project deserves the best. Everyone that warned me can reserve the right to say: "I told you so, you thick-headed Spaniard!" LindE, my friend, your info was great, but my name is MariA. BTW During high school shop class I was trying to learn English and at the same time teach everyone how to say my real name, Hortensia. I failed miserably, got tired of jokes and finally resorted to using my first name, MariA (every gal in Spain is named MariA-something, but we never use the Maria). Anyhow, please don't change my name again. The adventure begins... Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria#mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "marilynn smih" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:38:05 -0700 Subject: [Baren 19322] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 I am finding joy in coordinating 14a and also learning. I am learning about packaging and how things arrive in the mail. I am learning how to open packages with yards of tape and not damage these wonderful prints. I am learning that, yes, many lovely Baren folks send more postage than needed. And as for me, I have no grand concerns, just a husband who says I should not be out anything. And of course our rules to follow. If the rules are for one they are for all, no one is excluded, no one is picked on, they are there to help me make this a wonderful thing for me and everyone else. My postal ladies in the tiny Nahcotta post office are wonderful about saving the packages for me and are overjoyed with seeing the art work. Every package I get is like opening a new present. I think everyone should consider coordinating, it is really fabulous and yes I am sure at times trying. Love you all. Marilynn ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:53:45 -0500 Subject: [Baren 19323] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 Great to hear you are enjoying this experience, Marilynn! Thanks so much for taking it on -- you're doing a terrific job! Can hardly wait for the prints!! ALSO... The ALL-HANGA Exchange #15 opens for sign-up in ONE WEEK (October 1) !! If you think you'd enjoy coordinating that one, be sure to select the "CHOOSE ME! CHOOSE ME!" coordinator button when you sign up! - -- Mike At 11:38 AM 9/24/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I am finding joy in coordinating 14a and also learning. I am learning >about packaging and how things arrive in the mail. I am learning how to >open packages with yards of tape and not damage these wonderful prints. I >am learning that, yes, many lovely Baren folks send more postage than >needed. And as for me, I have no grand concerns, just a husband who says I >should not be out anything. And of course our rules to follow. If the >rules are for one they are for all, no one is excluded, no one is picked >on, they are there to help me make this a wonderful thing for me and >everyone else. My postal ladies in the tiny Nahcotta post office are >wonderful about saving the packages for me and are overjoyed with seeing >the art work. Every package I get is like opening a new present. I think >everyone should consider coordinating, it is really fabulous and yes I am >sure at times trying. >Love you all. >Marilynn Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Colleen Corradi" Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:59:31 +0200 Subject: [Baren 19324] help with ink on bookpages There is a solution to prepare in order to remove stains from paper, including ink. For all the inks used in writing one can use oxalic acid (or citric acid) diluted with water to the point of saturation. When the ink mark turns red it must be washed with a highly diluted solution of lime chlorate (30 to 40 g in one liter of water). If the ink marks are spots or lines they can be removed with a fine brush dipped in the above mentioned solutions or by using pure lime chlorate. When the spot or line turns red it must be thoroughly washed with clean water. http://www.monoprints.com/prints/restoring.html Colleen Corradi Italy ------------------------------ From: "lmhtwb" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:00:57 -0700 Subject: [Baren 19325] Re: wood > LindE, my friend, your info was great, but my name is MariA. BTW During high > school shop class I was trying to learn English and at the same time teach > everyone how to say my real name, Hortensia. I failed miserably, got tired > of jokes and finally resorted to using my first name, MariA (every gal in > Spain is named MariA-something, but we never use the Maria). Anyhow, please > don't change my name again. How about, "Yo! Woman"??? Hahaha. Sorry about changing your name, but my spell checker doesn't do proper names. (There, I'm off the hook.) Actually, you probably didn't miss all that much in shop. Most of the wood knowledge I have comes from books (stop laughing -- I can read even if I can't type sometimes), from teaching forestry at a university, or from experience with wood sculpting. The 3 years of high school shop did teach me some interesting things, but none them had to do with wood. Adios, LindE, LindA, or Hey, you! ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez#walgreens.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:57:07 -0500 Subject: [Baren 19326] Re: wood & stuff..... 09/24/2002 04:00:58 PM One more for the road Maria..... Hortensia........ pronounced: ore-ten-see-ah or ore-ten-cya (cyan w/o the n) How is that ? Maria is right; every female in the Spanish world IS named Maria {;-). Just a coincidence but my own Maria (Teresa) left Cuba as a child, traveled to Spain and then to the USA much like the MariA in Vegas. They also were born the same year. My MariA uses wood in a different way...usually only to hit me over the head when I misbehave... Julio ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:07:11 -0700 Subject: [Baren 19327] last few addies Puzzle Project related The last people I need addresses from are: Barbara Patera Georga Garside Carol Wagner Patsy Giclas Agda Synnergren Kim Shields Please go to http://www.1000woodcuts.com/puzzle/project.html and enter the appropriate info so I can send blocks to you Thanks all! M <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria#mariarango.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: ArtfulCarol#aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:15:10 EDT Subject: [Baren 19328] Re: Baren Digest V20 #1970 For removing the ball point pen ink I would phone any ball point pen manufacturer and ask them. Good Luck Carol L. ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V20 #1971 *****************************