Baren Digest               Thursday, 16 May 2002       Volume 19 : Number 1830


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From: "April Vollmer" <april@aprilvollmer.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:41:52 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18058] Italia! 

Dear all, I am off to Italia today!

I visited Agora Gallery to see Susan Goldman's print show: they have moved
to a much nicer location, and Susan's show looked very good. I forget who
asked me about it, but wanted to say they have improved.

My show will be up until May 24, but for all of you who aren't able to make
it to NYC, I made a web page of the show at:
www.aprilvollmer.com/webwalk0502/

See you in June!

April


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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan@uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18059] Dan Patrick Press 

Maria and all,

I am certainly not a spokesperson for Dan Patrick, nor his presses. 
However, I am concerned that someone in the market for an inexpensive press 
might miss an opportunity and just do without, so I will try to reply to 
some of your points.


>On the subject of presses, I purchased a Dan Patrick press (24" x 36") about
>3 years ago. I was happy with the little fellow except for one thing, you
>can't print a full sheet (Merrican, that is) of 22" x 30" paper because the
>actual printing area is less than that. I wish I had invested in their
>larger size at the time.


Now why would the printing area be less than 22" x 30" if the bed size is 
24" x 36" ??? Mine has a bed size of 18" x 36", and that is the actual bed 
size. There are bed stops to prevent rolling the bed all the way out. So 
there is a bolt at the end on one side of the bed, so you lose about 1/2" 
on each end for a 1" total loss. The bolts on the ends of the bed contact a 
small welded flange on the middle of one side of the bed rail, so you lose 
1/2" on the side (actually less). So the actual printing area on my press 
is 17.5" x 35". I do not understand why you would lose more than 2" in 
width nor more that 6" in length on your press. Can you explain ??


>The bed held up great and I use huge amounts of pressure sometimes. Wood
>engravings print fine although they are touchier by nature. I got pressure
>gauges installed on mine and they work great.
>A couple of details to know, the price looks great until you add the export
>customs charge (the bill will come in the mail), and the shipping charges.
>No charge from the US customs, the bill is from the Canadian customs (the
>nerve).


Wow !! I have never heard of this one before. Under the terms of the North 
American Free Trade Agreement, there are no customs duties on presses. I 
personally know people who build musical instruments for a living, and they 
assure me there are no such "export" charges on anything they ship to the 
US. I have friends who sell goods through Ebay into the US and they also 
say there are no such charges. And if a bill came to you in the US from the 
Canadian government (or from any other foreign government), why in the 
world would you pay it??

Most shipping companies will charge you a brokerage fee to cross an 
international border, but that is to cover their costs of inspection and 
the extra paper work. But that has nothing to do with the Canadian government.


> The trucking company that delivered the press to me wanted to charge
>me extra for unloading it since I didn't have a fork-lift handy (?). That is
>until I told the burly fellow to grab one side of the crate and I would grab
>the other and we got the thing down just peachy.


You will have to incur shipping costs no matter from whom you buy your 
press, unless you go pick it up yourself. And every shipping company I ever 
dealt with will charge extra for having to use a lift truck if you have 
something heavy and do not have the means at your end to deal with it. 
Drivers are generally not expected to manhandle heavy consignments.


>Also make sure you can fit it through a standard doorway if it is going in a
>home studio. This one did, just barely.


Amen to that. Many large presses have to be partially dismantled to go 
through a standard doorway. If you can get your press off any stand and if 
you have several burly types hanging about, it is sometimes possible to 
turn the press on edge to get it through a door. That is, the press may be 
too big in width and length, but not in height. Carefully check before you 
buy !!


>Okay, now for the bad news. The roller has "crawled" toward one side somehow
>and it is no longer centered on the press bed. This is after 3 years of
>fairly frequent use, but only by one person. The problem now is that I
>cannot lower the roller past the frame of the bed so I have to "jack up" my
>blocks to clear the frame. Also, I have consequently lost another inch or so
>of usable bed so I can't print my larger prints. Annoying. More annoying is
>the fact that the press was supposed to have a life time warranty but I
>cannot get in contact with the warrantors. Very annoying. I tried taking the
>roller off and gently tapping the bearings/brackets back to their original
>location. I tried insulting it. I have not tried taking it to a machine shop
>because frankly, I'm mad at it.


Well, from your description, it sounds like the shaft has shifted through 
the bearings. From my meager knowledge, the fix would be simple: press the 
shaft back into position in the bearings, install a pin or collar to hold 
it in place. But you need to check with someone competent locally.

On the other side of the coin, before I bought one of Dan's presses, I 
contacted a lithographer who has been using one of Dan's presses for over 5 
years, and he has had no problems or complaints at all. I also know several 
schools who use his presses, and one local arts consortium, and they report 
no problems. I would suggest that you get in touch with Dan. Perhaps your 
problem in contacting him was that he has retired from his regular job and 
moved. I had to search a bit to find his current address. You should get in 
touch with him. I provided his new contact information before, and I will 
provide it again:

Dan Patrick
Box 142
Heriot Bay
Quadra Island, B.C.  V0P 1H0
CANADA

phone: 250-285-2408

email: danpat@mail.cr.island.net

>Next time I'm going with a Takach. I was also looking at Polymetaal and
>their prices are very good with a couple of distributors here in the states.
>I was also considering the Whelan, but I failed to get any feedback from any
>relief printmaker who uses one. I probably will end up getting a large
>etching press for woodcuts (to accommodate 31 x 43 paper) and a smallish
>relief press for wood engravings. And a partridge in a pear tree...
>Meantime, I fell in love with a Matsumura baren so currently my press is
>being used as a nice stand for framing.
>Health to all,

>Maria
>


There are lots of presses out there, if you have the big bucks to buy them.

Cheers ....... Charles


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From: Princess Rashid <prashid@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:38:14 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18060] Re:  etching presses 

Maria Arango wrote:


> I was also considering the Whelan, but I failed to get any feedback from any
> relief printmaker who uses one.


Maria if you are still interested in the Whelan, contact Richard in the
Printmaking depart. at Daniel Smith. (I forget his last name) But I called him
a  few months ago about the Whelan and he sent me a wealth of info and stayed on
the phone for about 30 min. answering my questions . Mainly I was interested in
comparing the Whelan against the Ettans and KB presses. He was sold on the
versatility of the Whelan which he says he bought and uses for his own work. At
the time I was very partial to the KB press they offer but after getting the
specs on both and comparing the two I think the Whelan wins hands down..I have a
small child and I love the fact that on the Whelan the bed is stationery. + it
can print 22 x 30 paper format ..now I just need a grant or a patron or a saint
for the 7-10 grand it will cost to get in my studio.........

www.whelanpress.com

Daniel Smith : 1-800-426-6740 ask for Richard in Printmaking Depart.

Hope this helps,

Princess


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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:37:46 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18061] RE: Dan Patrick Press 

Dear Charles,
I'm glad you have all the answers. I just tried to point out some of the
pros and cons for the list.
The bill came from the Canadian customs, I can send you a copy but I'm
really not going to bother; I paid it because I'm that kind of a person.
The press fix is not that easy, I already tried what you suggested already
and the roller is pretty much stuck where it is. A machine shop quoted me a
charge of $280 (1/3 the cost of the press) and I would just as soon save the
money for a bigger press. Also a "life time guarantee" means very little
when the press would have to be shipped to Canada and back for repairs. But
I should have thought about that before.
Despite your careful measurement, the stops on my press do indeed prevent a
full sheet of 22" x 30" from passing through the press successfully without
tearing the edges. You can come over anytime and check it out.
I search the web too. I was surprised to find that Takach and Polymetaal
presses are not at all out of my financial reach. In fact, with shipping and
the annoying customs charge, the prices for those two are comparable to the
Patrick Presses. And those companies answer their email. I can drive to New
Mexico in a day and choose among two brands after carefully looking at them
in person. Something to be said for that.
All in all, the Patrick press is a good little press, I'm sure the roller
doesn't go walking on everyone and the one I have is still very much usable
and will get much use before I give up on it.

And speaking of presses, I've got some printmaking to do!

Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>



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From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 10:45:12 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18062] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1829 

Guess I'll throw my 2 cents worth in the press debate. I have had a Conrad, 24 x
53, etching press for many years and it is an excellent machine for the
money. It does a great job on everything: woodblock, lino, etching,
collagraph - and especially on really deeply bitten metal plates, and
woodblocks where I want a lot of embossing. But, where it really excels is
on collagraphs. It has the capacity to gear down for those really deep
plates. And, Tom Conrad is a gem and stands behind his product - though I
have never had to call on him I know that if I ever have any problem with
the machine, he is there for me.  We also purchased a small Conrad for the
NWPC last year. You can't go wrong with one of these machines. I would
concur with whoever it was who suggested casters, though. I have always had
mine on them and rearrange the furniture in my studio regularly! Martha
(Stewart) recommends wheels on all presses and that they be decoupaged upon
arrival, to fit with your decor, of course. :>)

Sharri



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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan@uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:22:23 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18063] Etching Presses, Natural Pigments 

My apologies to Maria and everyone else. I certainly did not mean to upset 
anyone. I do not pretend to have "all the answers". Nor did I mean to 
suggest Maria was being misleading in any way. I truly just failed to 
understand some of the things said about the bed size and the customs 
duties, in light of information available to me. If I appeared to be a 
know-it-all or a smart aleck, then I am truly sorry.

Maria, I like your work, and it would really please me to be able to take 
up your invitation to visit your studio. Alas, I am too far away and have 
too many other commitments to make that a possibility in the near future.

There is a great deal to be said for being able to drive to a dealer and 
look at the press you want to buy. Certainly that is better than buying 
anything blind. I was not so lucky here. And it is not cheap to have 
something as heavy as an etching press shipped any distance. I was at least 
able to go pick mine up when it was finished, thus saving the shipping costs.

I remain pleased with the Dan Patrick press I have, but I have not had it 
for long. I have used it to do some embossing, as well as to print some 
wood block prints, some engravings, and some natural specimens mounted on 
plexiglass. The construction appears to me to be quite robust. The next 
cheapest press of the same size I could find was from Praga, and it cost 3 
times as much. Only time will tell whether or not I have problems with my 
press similar to the ones Maria has had. If anyone else has had experience 
with a Dan Patrick press, I would love to hear about it.

On another matter, Lee Valley tools sells small quantities of natural earth 
pigments, These are mineral substances and supposed to be absolutely 
permanent. I bought a sampler of 12, which includes raw and burnt sienna, 
raw and burnt umber, yellow  and red ochre, red oxide, and a few others. 
Has anyone had any experience using these pigments? They appear to be 
finely powdered, but I presume they need to be ground with mortar and 
pestle, with perhaps a bit of alcohol. I then propose to dilute them with 
water and apply to the block with rice paste.

I am also interested in natural mineral pigments in blue and in green, 
which are not included in the Lee Valley set. One problem is that many 
substances that appear to have a color when in chunks loose the color when 
ground to a fine powder (as for example copper sulfate). If memory serves, 
Chinese brush painters used to use a natural earth green ink, but I cannot 
recall what it was. Does anyone know of natural earth pigments in blue and 
green?

Cheers ....... Charles

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From: "Jeanne N. Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:41:16 -0400
Subject: [Baren 18064] Re: Italia!  

Congratulations April on the fantastic web page re; your show at the Agora
Gallery.
The picture of you with one of your digital prints was so neat that I had to
print it out. The expression on your face was priceless. Hope the show is a
great success.

Mike
Also congrats on your musical debut (well not really a debut). Wish I could
be there to enjoy it!!!!

Barbara
Mailing the Music print tomorrow for sure. Just too lazy to make it to the
PO.

Jeanne N


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From: "Philip Smith" <SmithArt@Pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 13:43:25 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18065] Powered Pigments 

Charles,....Try WWW.Eggtempera.com they have a list of suppliers of dry
pigments.

Good luck,
Philip
Hammond, OR
USA



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From: "Diane Tigue" <dtigue@kscable.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:21:51 -0500
Subject: [Baren 18066] Re: Etching Presses, Natural Pigments 

Be forwarned - there are some touchy souls on this site - quick to point out
an upstarts failings.  Diane




> My apologies to Maria and everyone else. I certainly did not mean to upset
> anyone... 

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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan@uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:36:00 -0700
Subject: [Baren 18067] Natural Pigments 

Thanks for the tip, Philip. I found what I was looking for at 
www.iconofile.com, which was listed at the site you mentioned.

Cheers ....... Charles

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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:44:09 -0500
Subject: [Baren 18068] Re: Etching Presses, Natural Pigments 

Oh, for goodness sakes, everybody!  No need to apologize, Charles -- as you 
undoubtedly know, for a hands-on person, Maria isn't a bit touchy at all -- 
just very straight forward!  All the touchy ones have departed, <I 
think>!  Now shake hands and when the bell rings, let's come out and have a 
good, clean discussion!

<ding!>

Mike

PS  I am having a ball with my 15 state bijin and child aizuri-e reduction 
print for the Music exchange (they're dancing and singing)!  Just finished 
carving state 11.  It's very cool to watch this image 'develop' !!  So 
surprising as each print is pulled.  The first state, almost the entire 
rectangle printing pale blue, really made me sweat and ache -- I'm printing 
48 quarter-sheets (chuban size) of the Baren Mall's handmade HOSHO paper -- 
it's an absolutely wonderful paper!  Strong, luscious, variable 
thicknesses, but feels 'plump', and perfectly sized one side -- easy to 
fall in love with this paper!  It was taking almost two hours to print the 
first states -- tons of elbow grease to get the paper conditioned and 
everything working.  Now the block has been carved down to just a few areas 
which are printing very deep blue, and I'm just breezing through them in 
about 30 minutes per state.  I'm on pins and needles to see how it all 
turns out!

At 07:21 PM 05/15/2002 -0500, you wrote:

>Be forwarned - there are some touchy souls on this site - quick to point out
>an upstarts failings.  Diane
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charles Morgan" <cmorgan@uvic.ca>
>To: <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:22 PM
>Subject: [Baren 18063] Etching Presses, Natural Pigments
>
>

> > My apologies to Maria and everyone else. I certainly did not mean to upset
> > anyone. I do not pretend to have "all the answers". Nor did I mean to
> > suggest Maria was being misleading in any way. I truly just failed to



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End of Baren Digest V19 #1830
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