Baren Digest Thursday, 2 May 2002 Volume 19 : Number 1816 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Myron Turner Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 08:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17991] Water-based vs oil-based inks (again) I thought I should pass on my experience of the last few days, printing with both Daniel Smith water-based lamp black and Dan Smith traditional relief lamp black. I had been using water-based for proofing in the studio and then printing with oil-based at Manitoba Printmakers, which has great facilities for oils and solvents. I proof on Japanese papers, mostly moriki, and print on Rives BFK. My prints are almost exclusively black and white. Last Thursday, I finished a 16x20 black and white block which I proofed in the studio, as usual on moriki, and it looked fine. I find no problems when using water-based on moriki. I found some old stock of Rives Lightweight buff in the studio and decided to give it a try with the water-based. These also appeared fine. So, the next day, I brought out the BFK, dampened them, began printing and thought everything was o.k. But after the third print, on closer inspection, I noticed that in the bottom third of the print, the ink showed a mottled effect, as though the ink were not dense enough to cover. When I looked at the lightweight copies from the previous day, I saw that they also had the mottled effect but that it didn't show up in a pronounced way because the paper is buff, whereas the bright white of the BFK showed through the ink wherever it was mottled. This mottling, or unevenness in the blacks, is an effect that I had noticed in earlier uses of Dan Smith water-based, which is the reason why I hadn't used it for editioning. But since in this case the effect showed only across the lower third of the print, I thought maybe there was inadequate pressure at the bottom of the block through some defect in the plywood. So I glued glassine to the back of the block along its lower third. This helped but did not eliminate the problem and any greater pressure was too much. I also found that it helped a bit to wet the paper down even more than my usual practice. But this still didn't solve the problem entirely. I reprinted the next day using traditional relief black and voila!--no mottling--perfect prints. I had made a small repair to the block and in the water-based versions, this showed up as two under-inked, grayish marks. In the oil-based versions the repair was not visible. As for the moriki--I assume that the water-based black prints without problems on Japanese papers because Japanese papers are so absorbent. I have had no experience with the water-based colors. All in all this was an expensive lesson, given the price of 22 x 30 sheets of BFK. There's a final kicker to this saga. The two cans of ink--water-based and traditional relief--are basically identical, except for the name of the ink on the label. When replenishing the traditional relief black on the inking slab, I accidentally added the water-based--I replenished twice before realizing this and printed three prints with this mixture. The prints appear to be fine, didn't go up in a puff of smoke. I don't believe these inks are incompatible. A while back I asked Daniel Smith whether there was an oily rag hazard when cleaning up with water-based and was told that there was. This was my impression from speaking to someone at Dan Smith last year, who was recommending their water-based inks to me. She said that their water-based inks were in fact oil-based with an additive that makes cleaning up in water possible. But once dry they become permanent. And I have to say that the one thing that this ink does perfectly is to clean up! Myron Turner http://www.room535.org/mt/ --land safely in cyberspace-- ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 08:05:21 -0700 Subject: [Baren 17992] water bsed and oil based ink Myron, Sorry you had such frustration with your printing. I learned a trick from Nik Semenoff at the SGC a few years ago. You can take any oil based etching ink and mix it half and half with Windsor Newton Artesian water soluble oil paint of a similar or same color and the clean up will be water from now on. This may solve your clean up and printing problems! If you want to read more of Nik Semenoff's suggestions, go to http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ He is truly an amazing man and probably a chemist before he was an artist. I admit I have not tried this, but I am sure it works, Nik makes few mistakes. On a personal note I met with Tom Gregory, the General Manager of Speeball Company yesterday. They are slightly interested in the monotype release agent. I found they spun off from Hunt-Speedball in 1998 and are now a stand alone company in Statesville NC with 49 employees. Tom was coming to Seattle and made a special trip to Portland to see me, so of course went to see lots of clients here also. He was impressed with the release agent and took it home with him as well as samples of work printed with it. He is thinking monotype kit, using this release agent. So I guess this is exciting. I will be real glad if they start making it and I can quit doing so in the food processor...it is a big mess whenever I make up a batch. I sort of feel like one of those witches in MacBeth with the boiling cauldren..heheheheh. Best to all, Barbara ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 10:29:28 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17993] Re: water bsed and oil based ink Barbara, Thanks for your reply. I've written to Mr. Semenoff asking for his views on mixing the Daniel smith oil and water-based inks, since on his website he seems to suggest that this is possible and will result in an ink that can be cleaned with water--but I wasn;t clear about that and thisis what I've asked him. In any event, it gives me some assurance that the mixture will not eventually self-destruct on the paper. Thanks again, Myron P.S. Just wanted to thank Carol for sharing her story about the Fire Chief with us. At 08:05 AM 01/05/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Myron, >Sorry you had such frustration with your printing. I learned a trick from >Nik Semenoff at the SGC a few years ago. > >You can take any oil based etching ink and mix it half and half with Windsor >Newton Artesian water soluble oil paint of a similar or same color and the >clean up will be water from now on. This may solve your clean up and >printing problems! If you want to read more of Nik Semenoff's suggestions, >go to http://duke.usask.ca/~semenoff/ > He is truly an amazing man and probably a chemist before he was an artist. >I admit I have not tried this, but I am sure it works, Nik makes few >mistakes. > >Best to all, >Barbara ------------------------------ From: Lezle Williams Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 09:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 17994] Re: Baren Digest V19 #1815 Dear Carol, Thanks so much for sharing this - it made my day!! Lezle > He was James Walsh, a > Captain in the NYC Fire Dept, > going down to the WTC every day during the >rescue mission and the cleanup. > > I wanted to share this experience with you, but I > dont think I can adequately > express the heartfelt emotion involved . You know. > > (The prints were John Centers' and Lezle Williams') > > Carol > ===== Lezle Williams Laughing Crow Studio http://www.laughingcrow.org ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 21:28:24 -0700 Subject: [Baren 17995] moku hanga workshop Hi all, We're having a hanga workshop here at my house on Friday for some of the Baren LA people. I'm finishing up a new wood cut and am planning to share all I do to print hanga style. Bobbie Mandel and georgia garside will come and I'll do my limited moku hanga stuff. We'll go to Ruth Leaf's house in the afternoon for a work critique so it should be a good day. I've tried to e-mail to Gilda but the mail keeps bouncing. I used the address she used in her message to Baren but no luck. Please answer If you read this Gilda. Anyone else in Los Angeles interested? Bea Gold ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V19 #1816 *****************************