Baren Digest Wednesday, 27 March 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1779 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:16:18 EST Subject: [Baren 17700] crayons Charles, I have used Caran D'ache water-soluble crayons to color on a block and was very happy with the results. I had printed a floral pattern for a wall in the print, and I wanted a loose type of color underneath the pattern, so I first brushed water on the block, loosely applied colors with the crayons, brushed over this again with a wet brush with a little rice paste, and printed. By "wet brush" I only mean slightly wet, not dripping, akin to a wet sponge - but you can experiment to get the effect you want. I made this print several years ago and it doesn't show any signs of degradation, so seems fine to me. If you want to see the print I'm talking about, go to www.risingartist.com, search for "Hauser" and the print is called "Dogas". I used to have this print up on Colleen's monoprints website but I can't find it there now. Enjoy! happy printing. Sarah ------------------------------ From: G Wohlken Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:30:56 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17701] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1778 I'm curious about the term "process" colors. What are those? For instance is Pthalo blue a process color? Gayle > Beware of process colors, tho - most of them are super fugitive - >they fade in a heart beat (almost), but quickly at any rate. > > ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:06:04 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17702] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1778 "process color" refers to balanced and transparent Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black 'traditionally' used in commercial color offset lithography. Usually they have names like "Process Cyan" when you buy them... I'll be interested to hear from Dean Clark about the relative permanence of Graphic's or Handschy's process colors. Typically the process colors used by color inkjet printers fade quickly in sunlight, although over the past decade more permanent formulations have become available. You can see the marked fading of commercial process colors on the big color graphics that retail stores sometimes leave in the window long enough so that they lose a lot of color, usually turning a sickly blue/green... Mike Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:24:09 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17703] Yamaguchi Paper I just heard from Japan and the Yamaguchi paper Grahm has and the Yamaguchi paper the mall has are exactly the same. So good paper from the same source. Best to all, Barbara ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:44:07 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17704] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1778 > I'm curious about the term "process" colors. What are those? For > instance is Pthalo blue a process color? > Gayle Process colors are the ones used by commercial printers. Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and Black, they say process color on the can. They are made to drop in next to each other in tiny tiny dots and your eve mixes them to produce every color. If you have a strong magnifying glass you can look at anything painted commercially and you will see these dots. I have found them not to mix well although I know several artists who use them, layering them transparently over one another. I find the cyan just seems to kill other inks when mixed, but that might just be this one can of ink. So I stay away from them. Barbara ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:08:10 -0800 Subject: [none] Sarah, Thanks for the information. I have a block on which I would like to try this technique. You have been MOST helpful. Cheers ..... Charles ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:19:39 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17706] Re: Yamaguchi Paper >I just heard from Japan and the Yamaguchi paper Grahm has and the Yamaguchi >paper the mall has are exactly the same. So good paper from the same source. >Best to all, >Barbara I would like to get a piece of this paper. Can some one send me a piece. Thanks, Graham Can I order some and through who.... or is that whom. Graham ... again. ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:25:19 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17707] Re: Yamaguchi Paper > I would like to get a piece of this paper. > Can some one send me a piece. > > Thanks, > Graham > > Can I order some and through who.... or is that whom. http://barenforum.org/mall/products/hosho.html Maria Arango Las Vegas, Nevada, USA http://www.1000woodcuts.com maria@mariarango.com ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:20 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17708] Re: Yamaguchi Paper Anyone may order paper and many other high quality materials and supplies from the Baren Mall by visiting: http://www.barenforum.org/mall/map.html with MasterCard or Visa in hand for fast, safe, secure on-line payment. The mall also accepts cash, checks and on-line PayPal payments! You can easily "Visit the Baren Mall" from the Baren Forum home page at http://www.barenforum.org Mike At 09:19 AM 3/26/2002 -0800, you wrote: > >I just heard from Japan and the Yamaguchi paper Grahm has and the Yamaguchi > >paper the mall has are exactly the same. So good paper from the same source. > >Best to all, > >Barbara > >I would like to get a piece of this paper. >Can some one send me a piece. > >Thanks, >Graham > >Can I order some and through who.... or is that whom. > >Graham ... again. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:42:27 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17709] Yamaguchi Paper > I would like to get a piece of this paper. > Can some one send me a piece. > Thanks, > Graham Graham, you can order it through the baren mall. Barbara ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:24:54 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17710] Process colour Process colours is a term to define the colour of the inks used in the commercial printing industry. As Barbara says, "They are made to drop in next to each other in tiny tiny dots and your eve mixes them" which is known as a screen. It is all achieved with a complicated photomechanical process called colour separations and the resulting film that plates are made from. These films are seperated into 3 colour + black. It is these three colours that are defined as process colours. There are inks that have been standardized to meet the colour requirement of this process. For very special print jobs there are two other colours that are considered part of the process colour spectrum..... a blue and a red. damned if I can remember the names of them. You can purchase process colours but they are not necessarily commercial inks. They are a colour discription and have products in variety of mediums. The term process colour has been carried across to the digital colour spectrum with a term called RGB, which is R=Blue G=Red, B=Yellow. Most household printers use this scheme. The other term is CMYK Cyan, Magenta,Yellow and K= Black and this is the process colours developed for the computer graphics industry. Commercially generated material uses this process. All graphic programs (and some non graphic) use the above two methods to establish and render colours in your document and on the computer screen. Whew......... Graham > > I'm curious about the term "process" colors. What are those? For >> instance is Pthalo blue a process color? >> Gayle ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:29:44 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17711] Re: Yamaguchi Paper >I just heard from Japan and the Yamaguchi paper Grahm has and the Yamaguchi >paper the mall has are exactly the same. So good paper from the same source. >Best to all, >Barbara Upon checking the site I notice two factors. The size of my paper is 55 cm and 71 cm as compared to the mall 41 cm x 53 cm this is a 58.65% difference. I find the definition of medium weight ambiguous.... Mine is 7 momme. Anybody know what is the Mall's paper weight? If some one has a set of paper calipers and gives me the range of thicknesses across a sheet I can tell you the momme weight. A two momme weight changes, can vary the price by as much a 3 to 4 bucks a sheet in my size. We cannot bring the price variance into play because of the fluctuation of the yen. The next time the Mall price could be much better if it can be ordered at the optimum time. And lots of luck on that one. Graham ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:28:56 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17712] Yamaguchi Paper Graham, I will bring a pair of calipers home from work and measure the paper in thousandths of an inch and mm so you can know the difference, if any. Mr Yamaguchi says it is the same, so I do not doubt his word. The mall is making 10% on these transactions for future use for exhibits or the cost of the web site or whatever expenses we have. We now have about $300 or so we can use if we need it, and the web site is paid for for another year. Best to all, Barbara > Upon checking the site I notice two factors. > > The size of my paper is 55 cm and 71 cm as compared to the mall 41 cm x 53 cm this is a 58.65% difference. I find the definition of medium weight ambiguous.... Mine is 7 momme. Anybody know what is the Mall's paper weight? If some one has a set of paper calipers and gives me the range of thicknesses across a sheet I can tell you the momme weight. A two momme weight changes, can vary the price by as much a 3 to 4 bucks a sheet in my size. > > We cannot bring the price variance into play because of the fluctuation of the yen. The next time the Mall price could be much better if it can be ordered at the optimum time. And lots of luck on that one. > > Graham > ------------------------------ From: Cyndy Wilson Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:20:32 -0700 Subject: [Baren 17713] Re: Music Exchange That does sound like fun, Dan. Cyndy > It might be fun someday, after an exchange is over, to show the prints with > no names attached, then provide a list of participants and have the group > try to match the print to the artist. The winner could get something > inexpensive from the Mall or something. > Oh well, get ready for a surprise! > > > Daniel L. Dew ------------------------------ From: Cyndy Wilson Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:20:35 -0700 Subject: [Baren 17714] Re: Coming to Canada and America Jan: When exactly will you be in Seattle? I'd like a good excuse to come to Seattle in addition to catching a Mariners game. Cyndy Spokane, WA ------------------------------ From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:32:59 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17715] Re: Process colour Wanted to offer a dissenting opinion here. RGB is the exact opposite of process color. CMYK and process color are generally synonymous. RGB refer to the red, green, and blue phosphors in cathode ray tubes (color television/video/crt monitors and more recently the RGB conventions have been applied to LCD and plasma displays as well)... you can think of them as colored lights Red, Green and Blue -- the more color you turn on, the more light is emitted. When two or three RGB colors are overlaid they become brighter, not darker, so that when all three phosphors are fully illuminated in proximity, they appear to be white. I am not aware of any consumer RGB printers, only color RGB displays, as it is a luminescence thing, not an ink thing. Consumer printers are CMYK devices which generally apply ink to white paper in the colors Graham accurately described. When you put more and more ink on white paper, it gets darker and darker, and when you overlay inks it gets darker still so that printing Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow one on top of the other approaches deep black in color. Also, printing with process colors does not require 'dots'... There are many ways to achieve gradation in printing inks... half-tone dots are only the commercial standard. Mike At 10:24 AM 3/26/2002 -0800, Graham wrote: >The term process colour has been carried across to the digital colour >spectrum with a term called RGB, which is R=Blue G=Red, B=Yellow. Most >household printers use this scheme. > >The other term is CMYK Cyan, Magenta,Yellow and K= Black and this is the >process colours developed for the computer graphics industry. Commercially >generated material uses this process. Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:57:42 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17716] Re: Yamaguchi Paper >Graham, >I will bring a pair of calipers home from work and measure the paper in >thousandths of an inch and mm >so you can know the difference, if any. Mr Yamaguchi says it is the same, so >I do not doubt his word. The mall is making 10% on these transactions for >future use for exhibits or the cost of the web site or whatever expenses we >have. We now have about $300 or so we can use if we need it, and the web >site is paid for for another year. >Best to all, >Barbara Yes I know about the 10% factor and that is a norm and good business practice. As far as Yamaguchi saying it is the same.... Same as which order. I have ordered over a 1200 sheet in batches of 300 and 200 and they range in momme weights from 9 down to 6. Do they have someone around now who speaks English.? I sure hope so as it would make life much simpler. I want to order another 300 sheets while the yen/$ is so good. Thanks, Graham P.S. I have lost my "stickies" (it's an Apple thingie folks) file and their phone number.... could you send it to me.... thanks. > > Upon checking the site I notice two factors. >> >> The size of my paper is 55 cm and 71 cm as compared to the mall 41 cm x >53 cm this is a 58.65% difference. I find the definition of medium weight >ambiguous.... Mine is 7 momme. Anybody know what is the Mall's paper weight? >If some one has a set of paper calipers and gives me the range of >thicknesses across a sheet I can tell you the momme weight. A two momme >weight changes, can vary the price by as much a 3 to 4 bucks a sheet in my >size. >> We cannot bring the price variance into play because of the fluctuation of >the yen. The next time the Mall price could be much better if it can be >ordered at the optimum time. And lots of luck on that one. >> >> Graham >> ------------------------------ From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:45:46 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17717] Re: A look back, exhibit list, a heavy load... We all were recently saddened by Jeanne's tragic fire and the loss of her studio. It is hard for anyone to part with something that has been such a big part of their lives. In case you want to take a peek back and what a driving force it meant for Jeanne and other local printmakers....step back to the July-2000 edition of Barensuji: http://barenforum.org/newsletter/issue02/issue02.html#exchange and exhibitions I am currently updating the list of exhibitions that have included Baren exchange prints (wether formal exchanges or side projects). If I have missed anyone or not given proper credit, please let me know asap. I also have some of the much talked about Yamaguchi paper at home and I will try to get some numbers for you folks interested. I have to do this very discreetly cause my mommie is very reserved about her weight. thanks..Julio BAREN EXHIBITS since inception to present : Third KIWA (Kyoto International Woodprint Association) Exhibition, Kyoto, Japan - June 1999. Baren Exchange #1. Organized by: Richard Steiner. "Baren Print Portfolio", Manhattan Graphics Center, Manhattan, New York - October 1999. Baren Exchange #1. Organized by: Judy Mensch, April Vollmer, Sarah Hauser, Ray Hudson. "Baren Exchange Print Exhibit", Skokie Public Library, Skokie, Illinois - April/May 2000. Baren Exchanges #1-4. Organized by: Julio Rodriguez, Sharen Linder. "Junin-Toiro - Ten People, Ten Colors" - Exchange #5, National Art Gallery ( Nommo Gallery ), Kampala, Uganda - May 2000. Organized by: Greg Robison. "Woodcut Prints.com", Beit Gavriel Cultural Center, Jordan Valley, Israel - November 2000. Organized by: Arye Saar. "Baren's 6th Print Exchange Exhibit", Kent State University's Geauga Campus Gallery, Burton, Ohio - November 2000. Organized by: Gayle Wohlken. "Woodcut Prints.com", Yad leBanim Gallery, Tiberias, Israel - January 2001. Organized by: Arye Saar. "Baren Print Exhibit", Skokie Public Library, Skokie, Illinois - May/June 2001. Baren Exchanges #5-9. Organized by: Julio Rodriguez. "Endangered Species", Artists Unlimited, Florida Printmakers Society, Tampa, Florida - August 2001, Organized by: Daniel Dew. "Endangered Species", "New Year Exchange - 2001", A combination of print folios exhibited at the Quebec Printmaking Council, Quebec, Canada - November 2001, Organized by Claude Villeneuve. "NYFD 9/11 Relief Fund", 22 Baren artists created and donated works to benefit the 911 NYC fund. Irvington Library, Irvington, New York. February 2002, Organized by Carol Lyon. "NYFD 9/11 Relief Fund", 22 Baren artists created and donated works to benefit the 911 NYC fund. Palatine Village Hall, Palatine, Iliinois. February 2002. Also at Harper College Art department, March 2002. Organized by Sharen Linder. ------------------------------ From: ReadDevine@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:52:32 EST Subject: [Baren 17718] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1778 In a message dated 3/27/02 12:01:06 AM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp writes: << But, I wonder if something similar would work with water soluble crayons and wet paper It might be a fun thing to do with kids ... wouldn't even have to have those sharp knives lying about ... just don't let the little blighters choke on the crayons or rub each other out with a baren ... Let me know if anyone tries this .... Cheers ........ Charles >> I tried rubbing out one of my daughters, when she was being particularly a 6 year old, and it didnt work. Never mind. Mellissa Read-Devine Tennyson, Sydney, Australia ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:22:49 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17719] Re: Process colour Thanks for this Mike. It is interesting feedback and after researching it carefully I found a great site that defines colour along with RGB and CMYK. It is certainly worth a boo.... http://www.rgbworld.com/color.html It is interesting to learn this and will be talking to a gentleman that gave a talk about colour as it relates to the computer and crossing over to the printing field at a computer club meeting. My erroneous statement was what I thought he said when talking about RGB. On the other hand maybe it was a senior thing and I had a little doze and missed something during his talk. At any rate the above site is excellent. I think the folks will find it very interesting. Good input. Thanks, Graham http://woodblock.info ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1779 *****************************