Baren Digest Wednesday, 20 March 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1769 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Lyon Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:09:56 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17585] Re: Pressing paper Tyrus, try this: 1) clean the press (!) 2) lighter pressure 3) no newsprint a) dry paper expands as it picks up moisture b) different papers expand and contract at different rates 4) two sheets at a time... a) after pressing two sheets, bottom sheet goes to 'ready to print' stack b) top sheet becomes bottom sheet c) new sheet on top repeat step 4 sizing catcher will become soaked from damp paper -- change and dry sizing catcher frequently or use tympan sheet and mop up whatever wrings out each time. Mike At 05:45 PM 3/18/2002 -0700, you wrote: >So, I've been using our print lab's letterpress, essentially a proof >press, and have had to develop certain adjustments when printing >multiple blocks to avoid the misregistration of the blocks when the >paper (Rives Lightweight) stretches. I finally decided to run the damp >paper through the etching press first to stop the stretching. Yes, that >did work and I will definitely continue to do that. My question now >is... I sent the damp paper through the press sandwiched between two >sheets of newsprint (this is a university print lab, you know it ain't >clean in there), but the newsprint quickly creases and leaves and >imprint of the crease on the clean sheet of Rives, which can cause a >problem in the printing of my blocks. Is there a better way to do this >than using 500 sheets of newsprint? > >Of course, just typing this I thought of sheets of acetate, which won't >likely crease and will not really absorb any moisture either. So, I may >have answered my own question but am happy to send this out for more to >answer and all to learn. > >TyRuS Mike Lyon mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com http://www.mlyon.com ------------------------------ From: Charles Morgan Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:30:33 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17586] your prints Dan, Those are very nice prints indeed!!! But your web site does not really say anything about your technique, so I have a couple of questions about how you DEW it. 1) On your rhino print, the caption says it is 4 colors. Were those just 4 shades of black/grey? I do not see any other colors in the print on my screen. 2) What inks were you using? How did you apply them (roller, brush)? Did you use rice (flour, starch) paste? 3) What process do you use to obtain the photo-realism? Do you use digital photos, scans of photos?? If so, how do you transfer the image to the block? Or are you just hell on wheels at rendering??? 4) What are you using to do the carving? From the caption, it seems the rhino print is quite small. When I try carving an image that small, I have real problems with the size of the tools. Most carving tools are way too large. I have tried using engraving tools, but when not applied to end grain, they tend to tear the wood rather than cut it properly. And how deep are you carving your image? 5) Are you using a press to print most of your images? If so, what kind ... proof press, etching press, ...??? Do you put the paper on top of the block or the block on top of the paper ?? Do you use padding ... newsprint, etching blankets ...?? Basically, all I want to know is how I can do prints like that !!!! Cheers ......... Charles ------------------------------ From: b.patera@att.net Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:44:02 +0000 Subject: [Baren 17587] Re: prints Dan, Like your new prints... especially the "in your face" rhino. Are you rolling the inks onto the blocks or using a brush? Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: John and Jan Telfer Date: Tue, 19 Mar 02 23:57:57 -0000 Subject: [Baren 17588] Re:Bringing up the woodgrain Gillyin, >Complete Manual of Relief Printmaking > by >Clemson/Simmons >and found this: >" Bringing up the grain- > A wire brush,hand-held or used with an electric drill,can wear >away the soft spring wood leaving the grain more prominent . Steel wool and >hot water can also do the job,or the soft wood can be etched away with a >solution of nitric acid,which should always be used with great care. First >roll up the block with a thin coat of oil-based ink,then brush the acid over >the areas where you want the grain to show most strongly. The more >concentrated the solution and the longer you leave it,the greater the >definition. Light charring will also reduce soft wood. " p.67 You beat me to it!! The wire brush is the preferred way as I know of several people who use this method, especially Hiroshi Tomihari in Oyama Japan. Katie Clemson now lives in Perth, Western Australia after migrating from Britain.....would you like me to ask her? Jan in little old WA! ------------------------------ From: Mobile101@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:15:22 EST Subject: [Baren 17589] Re: numbering editions I have questions for the group. I am a little confused on how to number an edition and what is aloud. If I print an edition of ten in one set of colors and number them 1/10 , etc., can I ten go back and use same blocks but with different colors and also number them one of ten or do I have to indicate that this is a new state of a previous edition. Gilda ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:29:18 EST Subject: [Baren 17590] Re: Pressing paper I love printing on my vandercook but don't feel the need to dampen the paper for it esp with rives. The dampening is one of the things that is causing your problems.. Timpen paper on a vandercook is a harder paper similiar to oak tag generally it is attached to the roller. On an etching press use oak tag like a timpan on a litho press. the paper is streching because it is damp and too much pressure. Print it dry on a vandercook and you will get very tight regestration. I did a 25 color reduction wood engraving on a vandercook and you could see a thin white engraved line on the first color. This would not have been posible printing it damp on an etching press. An example of one of the problems with printing relief prints on an etching press would be printing unmounted lino on an etching press. The press streches the lino because too much pressure. a type high lino block printed on a proof press does not do that Hand printing wood engravings with a wooden spoon can damage your block much faster than printing on a vandercook in hand printing the pressure is much more uneven and can damage fine lines. John Center ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:40:40 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17591] Re: New Beasties Hi Dan, Glad you put up "The Dance" - as mine came in the mail yesterday but I couldn't read your signature. [:-)] Mine, however is gold ink on white paper, & I have a couple of questions. 1. Is the gold ink oil or water-base? 2. Three color reduction on the on-line one? Are you counting the white of the paper? And did you use masking to get the blue sky background? Just trying to figure out how you did this. 3. Not a question - just an opinion: I think you can make woodblocks out of any kind of wood on this little earth of ours. The people of Baren have just about proved that theory by using everything from linden/birch to mahogany & teak to wood in Africa that I can't even remember the name. So carve & enjoy! I'm having some problems with my horses - but they are starting to shape up. My hanga horses, that is - the live ones are doing really well! Wanda ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:51:23 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17592] Re: your prints Wow, thanks for the praise, let me try to answer a few of your questions. > From: Charles Morgan > 1) On your rhino print, the caption says it is 4 colors. Were those just 4 > shades of black/grey? I do not see any other colors in the print on my screen. Buy a Mac, colors are better. [:-)] Seriously, cream colored background, light brown and white, brown with a touch of blue and black. > 2) What inks were you using? How did you apply them (roller, brush)? Oh boy, here comes the "rub". All the inks were Speedball (I say while ducking under the table). Almost all was applied with a brayer (roller), except the background on the zebras. > Did you use rice (flour, starch) paste? Nope. >3) What process do you use to obtain the photo-realism? Do you use digital > photos, scans of photos?? If so, how do you transfer the image to the > block? Or are you just hell on wheels at rendering??? A combination of all of the above. I usually use my own photos and work with the computer and the copier, but you still have to translate those into lines and shades, which I render by hand on tracing paper then burnish onto the block. > 4) What are you using to do the carving? From the caption, it seems the > rhino print is quite small. When I try carving an image that small, I have > real problems with the size of the tools. Most carving tools are way too > large. I have tried using engraving tools, but when not applied to end > grain, they tend to tear the wood rather than cut it properly. And how deep > are you carving your image? Wow, fun ones. First, I use very, very tiny carving tools. Mostly "V" shaped, 1mm or smaller and an Exacto knife, very sharp. The Rhino is actually the largest of the series, look at the other ones, they are even smaller. I carve very lightly and print very carefully, stopping when lines begin to fill in, clean, start again. > 5) Are you using a press to print most of your images? If so, what kind ... > proof press, etching press, ...??? Do you put the paper on top of the block > or the block on top of the paper ?? Do you use padding ... newsprint, > etching blankets ...?? Ah, good old elbow grease and strong forearms. I start with a plain old rolling pin, switch to a wallpaper seam roller, then the back of the spoon to burnish specific areas. > Basically, all I want to know is how I can do prints like that !!!! Practice, practice, practice. I started many years ago doing line drawing, graduated to etching and lithography in college, began wood carving ducks and slipped into woodblock printmaking only after finding this group 4 year= s ago. I have only been doing relief printing exclusively about 5 years ago. Hope this helps. Daniel L. Dew Suncoast Equipment Funding Corporation http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Dew Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:13:34 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17593] Re: New Beasties > From: Wanda > Subject: [Baren 17591] Re: New Beasties > Glad you put up "The Dance" - as mine came in the mail yesterday but I > couldn't > read your signature. [:-)] Mine, however is gold ink on white paper, & I have a > couple of questions. > > 1. Is the gold ink oil or water-base? Water > > 2. Three color reduction on the on-line one? Are you counting the white of > the > paper? And did you use masking to get the blue sky background? Just trying to > figure out how you did this. Blue and white background, brushed directly unto the block with extender only. No masking, careful painting. Once background was printed, cut it away to roll the block. First with dark blue, then with black. Daniel L. Dew Suncoast Equipment Funding Corporation http://www.dandew.com/ ddew@tampabay.rr.com ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:16:21 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17594] catching up Good to be back on solid ground. On paper: I highly recommend Sylvie Turner's "The Book of Fine Paper" to solve many paper mysteries. This is a fascinating book about a fascinating subject. In reading I found there are many different ways to make a sheet of paper, so generalizing about hand-made paper is nearly impossible. Traditions in the Andes are vastly different from those of China. Starting with fiber composition and going through not only the mould and deckles but also the specific water source and temperature, time of the year the paper is made...gosh there really is so much to know about this incredible material. Also, making a sheet sometime and actually watching a wispy cloud of fibers floating in clear water, then the fibers lining up as you give the mould and deckle the final "shake" is a delightful adventure worth experiencing. You can change the nature of each sheet in a thousand different steps during the process. On raising the wood grain, there are 221 results when searching for "printing wood grain" in the forum archives, as we covered this subject extensively about a year ago. My preferred way is to let the wood dry out a little, usually outside in the sun (note that in the desert climate wood will dry without warping, as the drying process takes only a few hours in full sun). The softer wood loses moisture fast and the grain comes up beautifully. A faster method is to use acetone on the block, just wipe and let dry until the grain comes up. With this last method, you can even regain the non-grainy look by applying a generous coating of linseed oil and letting the wood absorb and swell again. When using wire brushes I tend to stay away from mechanical devices, as the wood is easily scratched. In fact most grain can be easily printed by using a very thin layer of stiffer ink without much preparation at all. As usual, there are many paths to printmaking salvation. I think the forum conversation goes much nicer if we can all just contribute our two cents without declaring someone else's ways "right" or "wrong." Perhaps we should simply abstain from commenting on another member's method, regardless of how prestigious a name you can toss in the pot in a pathetic attempt to gain credibility. Much health to all, Maria PS The Member's Websites page will be updated later today, I will announce. ------------------------------ From: "Tyrus Clutter" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:17:51 -0700 Subject: [Baren 17595] Re: Pressing paper Oh John, I wish we had a vandercook, it would work much better than this. This is actually a press that was built for Dick Blick years ago. My school used to use these to print signs to put up around campus, before the days of mimeograph and copy machines. It is not very versatile and I have found that damp paper does accept the ink better on this press. If I leave it dry I have to load up the ink to the point where it may start to fill in cut lines. I think the acetate thing will work just fine for me. And, I think it was Mike who was talking about lessening the pressure when pressing the paper on the intaglio press. I haven't been using blankets and it definitely didn't need a sizing catacher as it was only damp, not wet. The roller is set so that it just touches the bed, so it is not working with too much pressure. Newsprint is just, how shall we say, cheap. TyRuS >>> FurryPressII@aol.com 03/19/02 09:29AM >>> >I love printing on my vandercook ... ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:10:28 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17596] Searching arhives Someone mentioned doing a search of the archives. Is there a search engine on the site? Myron Turner ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:54:54 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17597] member's websites The Member's Websites page has been updated http://barenforum.org click on Member's Websites. Send complaints to diditwrong@mariarango.com Incidentally, what a wealth of websites! I spent some time checking all of you out, nice stuff out there fellow printmakers. Good to get to know you. You search the archives by going to the Forum Archives from the index page of the website. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find the search engine. Maria ------------------------------ From: Printmaker Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:42:11 +1100 Subject: [Baren 17598] wet >Actually, I think wetted is quite proper and >acceptable, but I've never heard wettened before. It could catch on and be >in the next dictionary, tho - shall we go for it? Sharri, the correct verb is WET. Josie (singing her new theme song:- "My learning is extensive but consists of mindless trivia..") ------------------------------ From: barebonesart Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:12:26 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17599] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1768 Gillyin, Try the wire brush to raise the grain first. It is very easy, does not take long, does not scratch the wood. Try it, you'll like it. Please don't use the acid - that is a mess, not good for you, endangers the environment, etc., etc., etc. You can finish the brushing off with a little steel wool if you wish, but sandblasting, while very effective, leaves little pits which you then have to sand away. The brush is the best solution. Graham - it is lightenining, it's just too fast for the naked eye. :>) Sharri ------------------------------ From: Stephen Goddard Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:19:08 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17600] K.C. - Lawrence Hey Baren Crew, I posted this last week from Belgium but it bounced as I was using webmail. So, now out of synch, here is my note about Mike Lyons' Kansas City get together in 2003: Catherine and Jean asked if we might do something at the Spencer Museum during Mike's print bash. Lawrence is about 50-60 minutes driving time from Kansas City, and I'm sure we could do something good for the group. There is plenty of time to work on this -- certainly our study room could be available with the baren portfolios as well as access to our fine ukiyo-e print collection (about 2500 items). Hey Mike: we'll get together and see what will be best to offer, o.k.? Steve ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 17:48:39 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17601] Re: member's websites Thank you. That's a great asset. Myron At 11:54 AM 19/03/2002 -0800, you wrote: >You search the archives by going to the Forum Archives from the index page >of the website. Scroll down to the bottom and you will find the search >engine. > >Maria > ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> >Maria Arango >Las Vegas, Nevada, USA >http://www.1000woodcuts.com >maria@mariarango.com ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger Womack" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:03:19 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17602] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1768 Good one, Josephine. Jean > The NewsGroup Personality > > (Based on the Major General's song from > Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates of Penzance") > > I am the very model of a Newsgroup personality. > I intersperse obscenity with tedious banality. ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:35:51 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17603] Re: New Beasties Very interesting Dan! I love to hear how other people do things. I'll bet there are as many (or even more) ways to print than there are print-makers! The horses are one of the funnest New Year's cards. So what's 2003 going to be? Thanks for some interesting stuff to mull over today! Wanda Daniel Dew wrote: > Blue and white background, brushed directly unto the block with extender > only. No masking, careful painting. Once background was printed, cut it > away to roll the block. First with dark blue, then with black. ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 22:45:03 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17604] from Claude Aimee Re: Pressing Paper TyRus: If your pressure is not too great the newsprint should be okay. Do you use felt blankets too? If you have too much pressure acetate won't help you either. It will crease too plus it will send water spashing all over the place... Have you tried blotters? When I print multiple blocks with wetpaper, I print all the blocks one after the other while the paper is in place. I've done that with etchings, linocut and woodcuts, with etching presses and proofing presses (Vandercook). This way the paper doesn't have time to dry enough to shrink and it doesn't affect the registration. Good luck Claude Aimˇe ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1769 *****************************