Baren Digest               Tuesday, 19 March 2002       Volume 18 : Number 1768


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From: "Jean Eger Womack" <jeaneger@jeaneger.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:17:31 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17564] Re:   Baren Digest V18 #1767  

Re: raising the grain.
It helps to use a kind of wood that has a grain that will raise.  Anyone
have suggestions of kinds of wood that work well to raise the grain?

Yesterday I saw  VERY beautiful show of woodcuts and other prints by William
Wolf at Saint Mary's College in Moraga, northern California, USA.  A senior
citizen, he works in a German expressionist type style, multi blocks.
There's an article about him at http://www.art2u.com/news/wolff1.html
but unfortunately, only a couple of his pictures.  There is a catalog
available through the Hearst gallery at St. Mary's.
Jean
e-mail: jeaneger@jeaneger.com
http://www.jeaneger.com





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From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying@Maineline.net>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:51:22 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17565] raising grain 

OK Graham    thank you  for those suggestions

what is a "50-50 mix of thinners"
precisely?

and  can I really take a wire brush to the block without scratching it ?

i will try it  on a separate block    as you say...

to answer my own query
 I looked in my
Complete Manual of Relief Printmaking
 by
Clemson/Simmons
and found this:
"  Bringing up the grain-
          A wire brush,hand-held or used with an electric drill,can wear
away the soft spring wood leaving the grain more prominent . Steel wool and
hot water can also do the job,or the soft wood can be etched away with a
solution  of nitric acid,which should always be used with great care. First
roll up the block with a thin coat of oil-based ink,then brush the acid over
the areas where you want the grain to show most strongly. The more
concentrated the solution and the longer you leave it,the greater the
definition. Light charring will also reduce soft wood. " p.67

i found no references to 'raising the grain of wood' in Baren encyclopedia

has anyone done this thing with nitric acid ?

steel wool and hot water sounds the most inviting to me of all these
suggestions  so far

Gillyin

------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:00:01 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17566] Woods for good grain. 


>Re: raising the grain.
>It helps to use a kind of wood that has a grain that will raise.  Anyone
>have suggestions of kinds of wood that work well to raise the grain?


If you don't have to carve it any wood, soft or hard will work.

Cedar is OK but stringy across grain when cutting.
Fir is OK but damn hard to cut.
Pine is OK and may be the most readily available.
Basewood is good
Cherry is the best.

You saw my post yesterday about the how too's.

If you are going to do a lot of this, some planning is advised.
If you take some pieces of wood with nicely defined grain, and stick it outside 
where the weather (rain wind and sun) can get at it, you will end up with a lovely 
supply of material in about a year or two.  It all depends on the amount of wind and rain. 

The fast track is to take the wood to a sand blaster and let them have a go. You may 
have to let them experiment to get the best results.

Graham



------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:09:31 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17567] Re: raising grain 


>what is a "50-50 mix of thinners"
>precisely?


Mix thinners and varnish in a 50% ratio.


>and  can I really take a wire brush to the block without scratching it ?


Yes... Just don't use to much pressure and work fast.  I prefer the BBQ brush as it is 
finer and not so scratchy.

I personally dislike using acids.... not because they don't or won't work but because 
of the environment. Each to their own.


>i found no references to 'raising the grain of wood' in Baren encyclopedia


I will put up a page on my site.  As soon as I can.


>steel wool and hot water sounds the most inviting to me of all these
>suggestions  so far


Never heard of this or tried it.  I would think it would take a lot of muscle to get results.

Graham

------------------------------

From: marco@speedingbullet.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:27:09 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17568] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 

on 3/18/02 5:00 AM, owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp at
owner-baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp wrote:


> McClain's ... web site.... http://www.imcclains.com All Shina is
> $5.30  for 9x 12
> Noboru Sawai  e-mail  .....  woodyprint@aicompro.com (He is in Vancouver BC)
> I have heard that the shina that Noboru is better (7 ply) and is less
> expensive.$ 4.70 for 9x 12
> I think is was Marco that said it was... He orders from Noboru.


Hey guys,
I do buy form Noboru and the Shina is quite good. I just bought 12 12"x14"
plates for US$110 including shipping.
Ciao,
Marco Flavio



------------------------------

From: Vishnovus@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 11:55:13 EST
Subject: [Baren 17569] Re: raising grain 

I would imagine that water applied to the surface of any type of wood would 
raise the grain. When I installed hardwood floors in my house, it was part of 
the finishing process to wet the floor with plain water, wait for it to dry 
and then sand with fine sandpaper. The grain came up quite a bit after being 
wet. 
I would imagine the wire brush would get in there to the softer wood and 
remove it, leaving the harder wood and a definite grain pattern.
There is an image on Matt Browns website. A portrait of a fellow in what 
apears to be a jacket. The grain shows on the jacket and its very effective. 
Its a terrific print.
Id blow that nitric acid thing off.....too many moving parts !
Ld

------------------------------

From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:52:22 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17570] Re: Paper grain ...perhaps an answer ? 03/18/2002 05:52:27 PM 

Not wanting to sound like an xpert on this subject, I'll quote Yoshida ,
(p.52):

"...the liquid is drawn up into a shallow rectangular tank held above the
tub, and the tank is shaken from side to side in such a manner as to make
the fibers run crosswise evenly in the fluid."

"...in the ordinary sized paper know as minoban (14 5/8 X 9 7/8") the
fibers run lengthwise, that is, in the same direction as the grain of the
wood in the block, and the baren is used in this direction also...."

regarding Dosabiki. (sizing)...

"...doza (size) is prepared by boiling dry animal glue and alum in
water....the glue strengthens the paper, constricting it's fibers and the
alum that is combined with the glue serves to make it less absorbent."


I took out some old oban sized prints I have that are over 100 years old.
Under magnification I can see many darkened fibers ( .5-1.5 cm long) that
run the length of the paper, I was unable to find any visible sign of
fibers running across. The fibers followed the same direction as the
traditional indentations on the japanese paper.

I also watched an old video I have that shows traditional papermaking and
it's pretty clear that the motion of the papermaker plays a key part on the
alignment of the fibers. Not sure all the physical forces in play, but this
particular papermaker will
rock his tank (deckle ? mold ?) away and towards him which happens to be in
the same direction as the bamboo  splats at the bottom of the tank (which
create the traditional "lines" in hand-made paper. The fibers are in a
random order in the vat below....but when scooped into the form and rocked
in a certain way, magic happens and the fibers do align themselves in a
certain grain/direction.  I suspect the difference between thickness or
weight of the hosho depends on how many times the papermaker dips the form
in the vat to pickup another "layer" of fluid...in this example he did it
only twice. He dipped, he rocked back and forth, then he dipped again and
rocked some more....then he let the excess fluid drain out.  Why create
paper that shows such strength and expansion in only one direction ?

 Aha !

I think these old wise papermakers really knew their craft well, as David
mentioned, the paper was made intentionally in such away that it will play
right into the forces working on the woodblock. Back in Edo time, there was
no plywood, and all wood used for printmaking would exhibit normal
expansion forces when exposed to time and water....so the paper was
INTENTIONALLY made to expand in the same way ????? and the path of the
baren was such as to aid in this process ? Does this make sense ?  How else
could you achieve registration of less than 1mm after doing hundreds of
prints on one block ?

So perhaps the current generation of papermakers can create a paper that
has insignificant expansion or the same expansion in all directions, and
perhaps that paper is well suited for plywood and non-wood surfaces....but
the old timers did it their way intentionally....

Just  3 cents......Julio
ps...how much does that sizing help to strengthen the paper ? after all if
you are coating your paper both sides with glue...that;s got to make the
paper fibers resist tearing.......has anyone tried testing sized vs unsized
paper to see if the
difference  is substantial ?




------------------------------

From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:58:52 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17571] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 

do any of the art teachers have a grading system they can share with me?

georga,
Depending on how much work you want to go to:

Divide the grade into as many parts as you wish to consider & apportion
percentages of the grade:

Use and recognition of elements & principles of design
Project completed
Completed and turned in on time
Attendance
Attention
Effort
Contributions to the class (did they participate in the class critique?)
Exam: if you give a written exam (you could give a short one on printmaking
vocabulary)
Final project: if you have one
Mid-term project: if you have one
Understanding and knowledge of techniques (if applicable)

I hope that helps!

Sharri



------------------------------

From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:01:11 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17572] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 


> reaction of Hosho paper when wetted... or is that wettened... (will someone
> help me here).


How about dampened??  Actually, I think wetted is quite proper and
acceptable, but I've never heard wettened before. It could catch on and be
in the next dictionary, tho -  shall we go for it?

:>)
Sharri


------------------------------

From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:03:15 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17573] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 

Gillyin,

Try a wire brush in the direction of the wood grain to raise it and,
therefore, make it print more pronounced.
Sharri



------------------------------

From: LEAFRUTH@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:30:26 EST
Subject: [Baren 17574] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 

Sarah and any other New Yorkers who are interested, the Paine Webber Gallery 
will have an exhibition called a Century on Paper. Prints by Art Students  
League Artists from1901-2001 at the  UBS Paine Webber Art Gallery, 1285 
Avenue of the Americas (6th) between 52st and 52 Streets.  It will be on from 
April 11- June 21.  You need an invitation for April 11 but it's open  Monday 
to Friday 8 AM to 6 PM.  I wish I could be there..Ruth

www.ruthleaf.com

------------------------------

From: "Tyrus Clutter" <TRClutter@NNU.Edu>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:45:57 -0700
Subject: [Baren 17575] Pressing paper 

So, I've been using our print lab's letterpress, essentially a proof
press, and have had to develop certain adjustments when printing
multiple blocks to avoid the misregistration of the blocks when the
paper (Rives Lightweight) stretches. I finally decided to run the damp
paper through the etching press first to stop the stretching. Yes, that
did work and I will definitely continue to do that. My question now
is... I sent the damp paper through the press sandwiched between two
sheets of newsprint (this is a university print lab, you know it ain't
clean in there), but the newsprint quickly creases and leaves and
imprint of the crease on the clean sheet of Rives, which can cause a
problem in the printing of my blocks. Is there a better way to do this
than using 500 sheets of newsprint?

Of course, just typing this I thought of sheets of acetate, which won't
likely crease and will not really absorb any moisture either. So, I may
have answered my own question but am happy to send this out for more to
answer and all to learn.

TyRuS


><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><

Prof. Tyrus Clutter
Professor of Painting, Printmaking, & Art History
Director of Friesen Art Galleries
Dept. of Art & Music
Northwest Nazarene University
623 Holly St.
Nampa, Idaho  83686
TRClutter@NNU.edu
(208) 467-8398

------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:48:44 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17576] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1767 


> > reaction of Hosho paper when wetted... or is that wettened... (will someone
>> help me here).

>
>How about dampened??  Actually, I think wetted is quite proper and
>acceptable, but I've never heard wettened before. It could catch on and be
>in the next dictionary, tho -  shall we go for it?
>
>:>)
>Sharri


Thanks Sharri....

Maybe you help me with this one....

When there is rain, it is raining.
When there is thunder, it is thundering.
When there is lightening, why isn't it lighteninging?

Thanks,
Graham

------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:03:52 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17577] Re: Pressing paper 

The acetate (heavy weight) should work.
I have always used a peice of 1/8" plexiglass on the bottom, and position the 
paper you want to stretch on it. On top of that place another piece of your Rives 
paper. This piece is used over and over.  It will not crease as quickly providing 
you don't have the pressure cranked up.  The surest way around it is the run it through 
the press at a light pressure first and increase the pressure the second time.

Graham


>So, I've been using our print lab's letterpress, essentially a proof
>press, and have had to develop certain adjustments when printing
>multiple blocks to avoid the misregistration of the blocks when the
>paper (Rives Lightweight) stretches. I finally decided to run the damp
>paper through the etching press first to stop the stretching. Yes, that
>did work and I will definitely continue to do that. My question now
>is... I sent the damp paper through the press sandwiched between two
>sheets of newsprint (this is a university print lab, you know it ain't
>clean in there), but the newsprint quickly creases and leaves and
>imprint of the crease on the clean sheet of Rives, which can cause a
>problem in the printing of my blocks. Is there a better way to do this
>than using 500 sheets of newsprint?
>
>Of course, just typing this I thought of sheets of acetate, which won't
>likely crease and will not really absorb any moisture either. So, I may
>have answered my own question but am happy to send this out for more to
>answer and all to learn.
>
>TyRuS
>

>><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><~><

>Prof. Tyrus Clutter
>Professor of Painting, Printmaking, & Art History
>Director of Friesen Art Galleries
>Dept. of Art & Music
>Northwest Nazarene University
>623 Holly St.
>Nampa, Idaho  83686
>TRClutter@NNU.edu
>(208) 467-8398



------------------------------

From: Dan Dew <ddew0001@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:17:37 -0500
Subject: [Baren 17578] Japanese Translations 

Interesting to hear the meanings of the term "Hanga".
What about the paper sizes, Chu-Ban, Oban, what is the English Translation?

dan dew


------------------------------

From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:45:54 +0900
Subject: [Baren 17579] Re: Japanese Translations 

Dan wrote:


> Interesting to hear the meanings of the term "Hanga".
> What about the paper sizes, Chu-Ban, Oban, what is the English 
> Translation?


Lots of this stuff is already in the Encyclopedia Dan. Head over to:
http://barenforum.org and scroll down to Materials/Paper/ ...

Dave


------------------------------

From: Dan Dew <ddew0001@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:53:08 -0500
Subject: [Baren 17580] Re: Japanese Translations 

ooops, my bad.

dan


> From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
> Reply-To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:45:54 +0900
> To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Subject: [Baren 17579] Re: Japanese Translations
> 
> Dan wrote:
> 

>> Interesting to hear the meanings of the term "Hanga".
>> What about the paper sizes, Chu-Ban, Oban, what is the English
>> Translation?

> 
> Lots of this stuff is already in the Encyclopedia Dan. Head over to:
> http://barenforum.org and scroll down to Materials/Paper/ ...
> 
> Dave
> 



------------------------------

From: "David Stones" <stones@mb.i-chubu.ne.jp>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 11:41:05 +0900
Subject: [Baren 17581] Re: "Elbow grease" 

Dear All,

I'm onto the barricades for natural methods re wood grain - plus a little
comment to that sizing question.

Wood grain shouldn't need chemical help to be brought up. Just what we call
"elbow grease" in the manual, non-chemical world. Wet wood, wire brush and
get to it until the grain comes into view. Even hardened Cherry can give a
fine-line background... (and stronger shoulders?).

Re sizing: Julio wrote: ...after all if you are coating your paper both
sides with glue...

Please don't size on both sides. Just size with a (wide) brush on the
(smooth side) top of the paper. Brush lightly with enough water content
that it doesn't stand on the top of the paper or the brush runs out of
liquid before the paper's edge. Elbow grease at it's lightest. I now have
my paper sized but for those who are beginning, it does give strength but
is to stop the water-based pigments bleeding into the paper... even with
multiple over printing. A little glue is also added to the pigments too.

Dave S (Ishita)




------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:17:34 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17582] Re: Pressing paper 

Got to thinking.....now that's a revelation.
If you did not want one side of you paper smooth then don't use the plexiglass.  
Another piece of the paper down first or even mat board... will maintain some what 
the texture of the original paper.

After thought
Graham


> acetate (heavy weight) should work.
>I have always used a peice of 1/8" plexiglass on the bottom, and position the paper 
you want to stretch on it. On top of that place another piece of your Rives paper. 
This piece is used over and over.  It will not crease as quickly providing you don't 
have the pressure cranked up.  The surest way around it is the run it through the press 
at a light pressure first and increase the pressure the second time.
>
>Graham
>


------------------------------

From: Printmaker <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:46:22 +1100
Subject: [Baren 17583] Sing Along Everyone 

Anda one 

	anda two 

		anda three



The NewsGroup Personality

(Based on the Major General's song from
Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates of Penzance")

I am the very model of a Newsgroup personality.
I intersperse obscenity with tedious banality.
Addresses I have plenty of, both genuine and ghosted too,
On all the countless newsgroups that my drivel is
cross-posted to.
Your bandwidth I will fritter with my whining and my
sniveling,
And you're the one who pays the bill, downloading all my
driveling.
My enemies are numerous, and no-one would be blaming you
For cracking my head open after I've been rudely flaming
you.

I hate to lose an argument (by now I should be used to it).
I wouldn't know a valid point if I was introduced to it.
My learning is extensive but consists of mindless trivia,
Designed to fan my ego, which is larger than Bolivia.
The comments that I vomit forth, disguised as jest and
drollery,
Are really just an exercise in unremitting trollery.
I say I'm frank and forthright, but that's merely lies and
vanity,
The gibberings of one who's at the limits of his sanity.

If only I could get a life, as many people tell me to;
If only Mom could find a circus freak-show she could sell me
to;
If I go off to Zanzibar to paint the local scenery;
If I lose all my fingers in a mishap with machinery;
If I survive to twenty, which is somewhat problematical;
If what I post was more mature, or slightly more
grammatical;
If I could learn to spell a bit, and maybe even punctuate;
Would I still be the loathsome and objectionable punk you
hate?

But while I have this tiresome urge to prance around and
show my face,
It simply isn't safe for normal people here in cyberspace.
To stick me in Old Sparky and turn on the electricity
Would be a fitting punishment for my egocentricity.
I always have the last word; so, with uttermost finality,
That's all from me, the model of a Newsgroup personality.


 [;-)] 

------------------------------

From: Dan Dew <ddew0001@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:43:14 -0500
Subject: [Baren 17584] New Beasties 

I've added a few new beasties to my site.
This one in particular is my first overt attempt to try in miximg Japanese
and Western styles:
http://www.dandew.com/thedance.htm
This one was done on cedar because someone told me you can't work with
cedar:
http://www.dandew.com/rhino.htm
Let me know what you think.


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End of Baren Digest V18 #1768
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