Baren Digest               Monday, 18 March 2002       Volume 18 : Number 1767


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From: G Wohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:50:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 17550] Paper Grain/ East vs West 

Thanks, Dave, Mike, John, and Graham (and any others I may have missed) 
for the discussion re east/west/ short/long fibers in papermaking.  I 
think for the first time this has sunk in. Yes, we have talked about 
this before (the short vs long fiber difference and how it makes paper 
act, but maybe at the time it didn't mean that much to me since I was 
grappling with so many facts re hanga) and also reading my bookbinding 
books which have a different thing to say about handmade papers. Anyway, 
thanks for restating.  I like when we cover material we've covered 
before because we aren't all ready at the same time to grasp some of 
these things.  It's only when we are directly dealing with the problem 
that we are ready to really hear it and take notes.

Gayle       




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From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17551] Re: Paper Grain/ East vs West 

I have another addition coming for the folks about paper as discussed with Noboru Sawai, 
which helps to explain further the phenomena.

I have always conducted the teaching sessions basis of reinforcement.  Tell you something 
and come back later and explain it again.  Maybe that is why so many folks come back a 
second and third time.  Na .... it's Marnies' cookin. 



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From: Charles Morgan <cmorgan@uvic.ca>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 07:43:36 -0800
Subject: [none]

Thanks for the prompt, Graham. I have not forgotten ... just got a little 
busy this week. Never fear ... my dulcet tones will come wafting over the 
wires very soon ...

Charles 


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From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 09:57:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17555] Re: 'Grain' in paper 

Dave, Jack, John wrote.....
.... about their experience and understanding regard grain in paper, 
and Dave said...."Perhaps I shouldn't have used the word 'grain" ...

That's right Dave, grain is the wrong term... I realize you probably didn't 
mean it in the same terms as know in the machine made paper world.  We did 
have the discussion when you were at Boot Camp .... 
(repeat after me Dave .... boot camp)  (<: (<: ahhh one more chuckle.... (<:

I disputed you at that time and now.... well I must confess that the wonderful Hosho 
paper we use does have a ..... direction.... not a grain.  It is not a completely 
fordineer sheet but close.

Oh and folks... take Dave's statement with a grain of what ever....  "even with two 
'big men' playing 'tug-o-war' trying to tear it apart" ... I can pull apart my 6 momme, 
but have a big wrestle to pull the 8 momme apart. However you cannot tear 2 pieces that 
are put together of either the 6 or 8 momme.  So what you say.... Well it's just a lovely 
little bit of trivia and also it sure as hell impresses a customer that you have given a 
couple of pieces of paper to tear, as you explain all you know about the stuff.  I recall 
one person said during the demo that he wasn't planning on tearing up my prints so what was 
the point of the exercise.

Dave explained how the paper gets its direction in the making.  I had a discussion with 
Noboru Sawai who goes to Japan every year to make his own paper.   Some paper makers .... 
and it cost more money....  will make paper that is without fibre direction so that it is 
equal in all directions They use a circular motion the does the trick which is much harder 
to manipulate and is tough on the body. He has a fellow paper maker friend that charges 
about $50.00 a sheet, (depending on the yen). Equate this in terms of retail it is upward 
a $100.00 per sheet.

John Center you were right regarding your ... STATEMENT... sorry I just couldn't resist 
the shout ... When paper is made with cotton or linen the length of fibre is shorter and 
therefore the firbre direction causes hardly any noticeable variation and has less influence 
on the paper, makes your papermaker teacher right. (Come on Scholes, Jack already said that, 
you dummy).

The Kozo fiber is extremely long by comparison ... but then we all knew that... and has a 
influence on the reaction of Hosho paper when wetted... or is that wettened... (will someone 
help me here). This is something we have to mind, when deciding on the tearing up of a sheet 
for printing.  (Tearing you question?   Yes I never cut my paper. It a tradition thingie). 
This then makes Dave's statement correct.   So Dave and John's teacher will have to agree 
to disagree "with such exalted authorities" who ever the heck they are....  This reminds 
me of the word 'Expert', which in the business world came to mean "A SOB from head office 
with a special price".  (*<:

Wanda said....

>"Perhaps the Canadian version is something else"

No, there is no difference except for the factor of price. The paper I use, and have for 9 
years, is Yamaguchi's top quality.   They make cheaper hosho as do some other paper makers 
in Japan. It is the old adage ... you get what you pay for.

Now on the subject of moisture affecting wood.  I have a goodie to pass on.
Have you heard about the recommendation of never placing a piano on an outside wall as it 
causes  it to go out of tune as the seasons change.  Don't get your britches in an knot, I 
am not going "off topic"

Never store your plates on an outside wall cupboard. They will gain moisure and swell 
across the grain.  By the way, wood "*does not*" swell along the length of the grain.   
The experience I just had with a set of block that were stored (leaning) against an outside 
wall caused me to lose 30 sheets of hosho paper, that equates to about $300.00. (depending 
on the value of the yen). The first plate, yellow, has swollen by 1/8".

Not realizing, I went merrily along printing the first colour and when I came to print the 
second colour I found the next plate, that was positioned two plates from the outside wall 
had not expanded. The plate was 1/8" smaller so the registration was off by that much. You 
must of heard the screaming ... or the earth move.

In conclusion I am now going to go into paper making  putting to use all those spoils sheets.
Marn's response was... "So this is acting your age and slowing down".  I suggested, as my 
contribution to this agenda, I would agree not to conduct Boot Camp next year.

Have a good rest of the weekend ....

....and you guys in Oz ... have a better week since you are already there....
 
On the subject of Oz, not teaching here next year means we will definitely visit  
"the yellow brick road" and get up to date in Kansas City.  (*<:

Graham/Sidney BC
An Island in the Pacific
Home of the Boot Camp
http://woodblock.info

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From: Vishnovus@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:07:09 EST
Subject: [Baren 17556] ink 

Just an aside.
I made the long trek from Sequim to Seattle and stopped by Daniel Smith and 
picked up a tube of DS waterbased relief ink. whooosh that stufs is very nice.
I was really surprised, as I hadnt used waterbased inks in ages because I 
remember being really disappointed with them. I havent investigated the 
colors, but the black is wonderful.



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From: Ewa532@cs.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 14:46:53 EST
Subject: [Baren 17558] Re: shina plywood 



Does anyone have a source for reasonably priced shina plywood?  Thanks

Edo


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From: Aqua4tis@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:07:53 EST
Subject: [Baren 17559] Re: shina plywood 

mcclains printmaking supplies
1-800-832-4264

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From: Aqua4tis@aol.com
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 16:18:24 EST
Subject: [Baren 17560] Re: teaching question 

hi everyone
   do any of the art teachers have a grading system they can share with me?   
i was looking at rubrics  but any suggestions would be appreciated 
email me off list
thanks
georga
sorry about the off topic nature of this post

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From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:59:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17561] Re: shina plywood 



>Does anyone have a source for reasonably priced shina plywood?  Thanks
>
>Edo


There are two sources....

McClain's ... web site.... http://www.imcclains.com All Shina is 
$5.30  for 9x 12
Noboru Sawai  e-mail  .....  woodyprint@aicompro.com (He is in Vancouver BC)
I have heard that the shina that Noboru is better (7 ply) and is less 
expensive.$ 4.70 for 9x 12
I think is was Marco that said it was... He orders from Noboru.


Graham

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From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying@Maineline.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:55:31 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17562] raising thr grain 

hi Bareners   I have carved two blocks for the Gospels exchange
which are actually two sides of the same piece of yellow cedar

when i printed it,  i found that the  planer marks were showing,
 in stead of the grain   , which i do want to see ,
 as it enhances my design

i sanded with 220 grit and now can see the grain with my eyes
when i print -- it is not pronounced

but at least now it is velvety black

calling for   advisements on  raising the grain
 so that it is quite visible when  printed

i know we have spoken of this many times....
please refresh my memory?

Gillyin  machias maine usa


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From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 20:17:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17563] Re: raising thr grain 

It is a plus that you used cedar.

I know more about raising children, dogs, cat and hell, than I do about raising grain....

Wet the board.... as in soak.  This will raise the grain providing it is a face grain 
and not an edge grain.  Both will rise but the edge grain will not be as pronounced.

Let the plate dry completely and then varnish with 50/50 mix of thinners.

If you want a more pronounced grain you need to get a wire brush... the kind they use 
to clean BBQs.  If that is not strong enough then a good old fashion wire brush from 
the local hardware store. Don't try to take too much away in a hurray.  It is a slow 
gradual process.

If you have a power drill, it is easier.  Get a wire brush wheel and have go at 'er.....

I suggest you try all of the above on a spare piece of wood to determine how much to 
soak or wire brush for the result you want. 

Graham

P.S. I wonder if Viagra would work ????



>hi Bareners   I have carved two blocks for the Gospels exchange
>which are actually two sides of the same piece of yellow cedar
>
>when i printed it,  i found that the  planer marks were showing,
> in stead of the grain   , which i do want to see ,
> as it enhances my design
>
>i sanded with 220 grit and now can see the grain with my eyes
>when i print -- it is not pronounced
>
>but at least now it is velvety black
>
>calling for   advisements on  raising the grain
> so that it is quite visible when  printed
>
>i know we have spoken of this many times....
>please refresh my memory?
>
>Gillyin  machias maine usa



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End of Baren Digest V18 #1767
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