Baren Digest Tuesday, 26 February 2002 Volume 18 : Number 1740 ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:54:11 -0600 Subject: [none] Hi Georga, Thanks for your note. The pelican is over 20 years ago, so I'll do my best to recall the technique. First, I printed the basic image in black and white--the pelican itself--on a Japanese paper, probably moriki. Then I created set of stencils and rolled the colored inks onto the back of the print and lightly sprayed the back with mineral spirits, causing the ink to spread. I may also have used some water colors, also painted on from the back. There are several varieties of this print, all dependent on how I used the stencils and on whether I used water colors (if I did--I truly can't recall). I got the idea of rolling ink onto the back from the American printmaker Carol Summers who made prints by rolling the ink onto the paper instead of onto the block. I don't recall the he sprayed his prints but maybe he did. Myron >hello myron > can you elaborate a bit as to how you did the pelican? ------------------------------ From: Cucamongie@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:16:46 EST Subject: [Baren 17213] Myron's website Hi all, Myron, I really enjoyed looking at your website - I like your work and it's fun to see its evolution as well. Thanks for sharing this with us- best wishes Sarah ------------------------------ From: barebonesart Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 17:02:15 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17214] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1739 Welcome, Myron - the page worked perfectly on my Mac and very fast. Thanks! That was quite a trip and very nice work. In the discussion of hazardous waste and oily rags - there is room for the element of common sense in there somewhere. I use vegetable oil and rubbing alcohol to clean up from oil-based inks, whether relief or intaglio. The oil on my rags is not much more hazardous than the fat from the bacon on the paper towels after they've come from the microwave. I haven't actually done that in years, but I remember a LOT of oil. I put everything in the red can with the lid and empty it once a week with the other trash. It is oil, to be sure, but it is minimal and vegetable. It is in a fire proof can. It is safe. I sleep soundly - please don't anyone pop my bubble! Any solvents I may use go into the haz/mat metal can and go with the left over house paint, mineral spirits, etc. from activities other than printmaking - and I'm right behind Maria (though a 1000 miles north) to the special haz/mat dump day free to home owners once or twice a year. But really, for cleaning up after printing, the little veg. oil on the rags or paper towels is fine to toss out with the kitchen garbage once a week. (So says SW WA Health District - this may be a conspiracy by Geo. Bush, some radical Canadian exiles, Bin Laden, Cadafi, Saddam, etc. to rid the world of printmakers, and if so, it is monumentally ineffective.) One caveat, however: any oil can be combustible, so store the rags in a covered metal can until they go with the Sanitary Engineer on pick-up day. Sharri ------------------------------ From: Vishnovus@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:23:33 EST Subject: [Baren 17215] Re: sizing paper? In a message dated 2/25/02 10:54:04 AM, bnj50@earthlink.net writes: << http://woodblock.com/encyclopedia/entries/011_09/chap_4.html >> Thanks again Barbara for pointing the way, and Bea, thank you for giving me a heads up on that baren page for sizing info. That fellow Platt was an amazing artist. The baren site is like the Metropolitan museum in NY.... you can go there every day and find something new! thanks. Maria you have terrific ideas and advice. I love the bucket of water outside the studio. Im going to do that right away. Every night when I close my studio down I check to see if everything is turned off, but I always worry about rags, paper and fire. Barbara, I spoke to Alex at McClains today and place an order for wood and some tools etc. Cant wait for that UPS truck. She was really nice and very helpful. Ordered a nice big sizing brush and Im off to Safeway for some gelatin and alum in a few minutes. Thanks for all the input! Thanks all for oily rag disposal suggestions. Print safe! Ld ------------------------------ From: FurryPressII@aol.com Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:23:46 EST Subject: [Baren 17216] Re: No Subject summers sprayed the paper with solvent for more info look into the ross and romano book on print making John ------------------------------ From: "Jeanne N. Chase" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:45:11 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17218] Re: Combustible material Dear Baren In response to materials that are dangerous. I think that I am an expert now. The fire in my studio was an electrical fire. However the fire was intense and completely melted my press and the entire room and kitchen. The materials in there were not stored in cabinets but were out in the open; oil paint, turpentine, kerosene, etc. All sitting out in the open. The fire virtually exploded two rooms. The room that held "nitric acid, more kerosene, turps,etc. had a large metal cabinet While the room was burnt and the materials and cabitnet were also destroyed (along with all art work), the fire was not intense and did not melt any of the fixtures. Just burnt all the walls and floor. I will from now on, when I get another studio,I will put all of my combustibles in a metal cabinet. The fire department was unanimous in agreeing that the entire studio would have been totaled if I had not put the other combustible items in the metal cabinet. As it was , I was spared the "fault", as it was an electrical fire in an old wonderful house that was 50 years old. You have every right to be wary of how you store your material. I will, from now on, take extra precautions. I have had my fire. PS. I should have my studio rebuilt around July. Jeanne N. ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:00:49 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17219] Re: Oily Rags. Try it again Graham. This is the third try to get this oily post right.... >Maria you have terrific ideas and advice. I love the bucket of water outside >the studio. >Im going to do that right away. Every night when I close my studio down I >check to see if everything is turned off, but I always worry about rags, >paper and fire. I luv Barbara's comment about Hanga. Not a worry about fire hazard. On the subject of Oily rags.... Combustion occurs when you bunch up rags and leave them on a table or where ever. It is the combination of air and the petroleum base oils in a bunched rag that create combustion. You can safely spread out your rags so that so that there is plenty of air which will not promote combustion. Furniture oils i.e. teak, tung, linseed and boiled linseed are the worst for generating combustion. When I was building and refinishing furniture I had a towel rack in the shop that held the rags until the oil set up, the rags became hard and stiff and then I would put them in the garbage. The trouble with a bucket of water is some oil comes off and now you have the problem of dumping oily water and the oil in the rags are still not dry so the problem remains. If these are bunched it could become a fire hazard. Has anybody had experience with vegetable oil causing a combustion problem? Frank wrote.... >Lastly, do oil based inks in of themselves in their metal containers >pose any fire hazard? Should they be locked up in metal cabinets? No problem in this regard. Store them in you shop without concern. Regard, Graham. ------------------------------ From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:22:36 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17220] dangerous inks Frank, A can of ink is not going to self combust...but if there is a fire it will surely burn like crazy. I keep mine on a shelf...so I guess it is up to the individual. I have worse stuff in the metal cabinet. Barbara > > Lastly, do oil based inks in of themselves in their metal containers > pose any fire hazard? Should they be locked up in metal cabinets? > > Thanks in advance for the advice. > frank > ------------------------------ From: "Jean Eger Womack" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 18:26:50 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17221] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1739 Re: sizing. Yes, I did paint sizing on paper for years. What a headache! Then I found out that I could pay more and buy paper which was already sized. Presto! Infinitely better results printing with pigment plus rice paste. I am currently having good luck printing my big print on Utrecht brand American Masters printing paper, which is dampened to print. I guess we were going to share technical information in this group, right? Well, I just took a deep breath and revealed my best discovery of the season. Some people like sharp brushes, so here goes. (I think they are talking about having a brush with the law.) I live across the street from a giant refinery and a huge railroad terminal. Hazardous materials abound in this area. They have acid rain. They have sulphur dioxide emissions. People call the Bay Area Air Pollution Control, or whatever agency is investigating this year. They gang up on the refinery. They organize the phone calls, so the refinery will get a big fine. I don't have direct knowleege of that, I just sense it. I try not to participate in vigilante groups. The local grocer tells me that community policing means the police don't do anything about crime, they let the community do the policing. The teaching assistant at San Francisco State told me she pours baking soda into the acid and pours it down the drain. The refinery people say that if you pour baking soda into nitric acid solution it is still caustic. Don't think that you have neutralized it sufficiently to pour it down the drain. Anyway, I don't pour it down the drain because #1 It's against the law #2 I care about the fish in the San Francisco Bay. I asked Bryant Chemical Company,. the company where I bought the stuff, what to do.. They said I should keep it and say that it came with the house when I moved in. So it's historic nitric acid solution. My husband said he would inquire at his job of being a car mechanic, whether we could take it there and dispose of it with all the dangerous car chemicals, but I have not yet heard an answer from him on that. I guess I need to take another day off from work (losing another $115), and go to the hazmat place, or just call up the garbage people to get rid of it. There's a day when we can dispose of it, once a year or something like that. I am supposed to get the information in my garbage bill. I switched over to Ferric, for which the whole set up is infinitely more expensive than nitric, but lasts longer and is safer, they say. As far as a locking metal cabinet goes, why does one need locked cabinet for flammables? The flames don't care about locks. The only reason to have locks is children. When children come, I just take everything into the basement and lock the basement. I don't know how much more secure I could get. If my son chooses to unlock the door and leave it unlocked, then he has a big problem and I can't protect the children if he is going to do that. I can't protect every cat burglar who wants to go into my house poking around while I am not there. I have even put skull and crossbones on my expensive Ferric tank that I bought from Mark Zaffron, thus messing up the pristine white plastic, so that if a person who doesn't understand English tries to burgle my house, he or she will not touch the acid. I paid some huge sum of money to take a course at Kala so I could be shown how to use Ferric, and my roulette was stolen while I was there. I told someone who was going to visit and make prints that I could not have him come over and etch plates until I saw how he worked in studio. So that means I can't have him come over and etch plates. I didn't want him to accidentally make a splash while putting the plate in the nitric, like I saw someone do in the huge open vat they have at City College. Flammable rags is a problem and should be a concern to anyone. As I recall from childhood science, one should avoid storing rags in a place where the sun shines on them through a window. It could have a magnifying glass effect which definitely starts a fire. Some people believe in spontaneous combustion, but I don't think it happens. I think that stuff needs a spark to catch on fire. Just like germs don't jump out of the cat box onto my hands if I am just standing there looking at it. I have gone to public police and fire reviews where they light a huge vat of gasoline and then watch it burn. It is too hot to get close to. You can't put it out with water. If you use water, it is a major disaster. I rarely print with oil based inks anymore, so I don't worry about it much. I am always interested in reading about safety, because it costs so much to go to Kala and then they hardly tell you anything. Jean Eger Womack e-mail: jeaneger@jeaneger.com http://www.jeaneger.com ------------------------------ From: "April Vollmer" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 22:52:01 -0500 Subject: [Baren 17222] Office of Strategic Influence Mike, I'm with you on the 'evil empire'. We have to watch out for those Canadians! I heard today W had to cancel his disinformation campaign, the 'Office of Strategic Influence' he set up to promote the 'war against terrorism'. Front page in the Times: "New Office Proposes to Send News or Maybe False News to Even Friendly Lands... the small but well-financed Pentagon office, established shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, was a response to concerns in the administration that the United States was loosing public support overseas for its war on terrorism." Off topic? Not if our printmaking venture is about sharing info across national boundaries! April ------------------------------ From: Myron Turner Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:56:01 -0600 Subject: [Baren 17223] Re: No Subject Well, there you go--I'm sure I must have pinched the idea from Summers. Truthfully, though, it's not something I'd do so quickly today, and certainly not without proper ventilation. But those were days when I used to wash the ink off my hands with mineral spirits! At 08:23 PM 25/02/2002 -0500, you wrote: >summers sprayed the paper with solvent for more info look into the ross >and romano book on print making > >John ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 20:33:23 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17224] Re: sizing paper? Hi Ld, Glad the reference helped. I saw that Barbara sent you to the same place. I use one of those flat wall painting tools that are found where paint rollers are kept for sizing and for moistening paper. Very cheap and very good. Good luck and enjoy the Hanga mystique. Bea Gold ------------------------------ From: "Bea Gold" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:27:22 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17225] Hi Myron, You wrote to Bea not georga (no caps). I tried to go to your web site but had some trouble. I could get into the one that had the moving animals and loved it. Nice to meet you. Bea Gold georga's e-mail address is Aqua4tis@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 21:19:11 -0800 Subject: [Baren 17226] Re:Sizing / Combustion Jean Eger wrote..... >Re: sizing. Yes, I did paint sizing on paper for years. What a headache! Has anybody been successful with sizing paper...?? When Dave was here we tried sizing some Hosho unsized paper.... I was not successful. I have a lot of unsized paper and would like to make use of it. >Some people believe in spontaneous combustion, but I don't think it happens. If you are referring to oily rags they most definitely will self combust.... You can easily try this yourself. Put some linseed oil on a cloth and bunch it up tightly. Put in on a piece of tin or in a tin can and read a book while you wait ... In about an hour or so it will begin to heat up. 3 - 4 hours it will be smokin..... Hope it is a good book. Jeanne, Good point about having flammables in safe cabinets in the event of a fire. Famous last words.... "Heck we will never have a fire....." Graham ------------------------------ From: Jack Reisland Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:04:55 -1000 Subject: [Baren 17227] Re: Office of Strategic Influence Baren After Five is still functioning, isn't it? Jack R ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V18 #1740 *****************************