Baren Digest             Thursday, 21 February 2002     Volume 18 : Number 1729


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From: Cucamongie@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:20:59 EST
Subject: [Baren 17079] particle board 



Personally, I have to say that even though I'm on a very tight budget like 
many artists, when it comes to materials I go for quality rather than 
"cheap", so I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to carve 
particle board rather than actual wood.  In addition, if this "MDF" is indeed 
particle board, doesn't it give off formadehyde and other nasty stuff?

Sarah



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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:27:18 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17080] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1728 

At 10:01 PM 2/20/2002 +0900, you wrote:

>From: barebonesart <barebonesart@attbi.com>
>Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:51:35 -0800
>Subject: [Baren 17075] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1727
>
>This has nothing to do with anything except Graham's post about the time
>tomorrow - the 20:02, 2/20, 2002.  Why won't the same thing work on Feb. 22,
>2222 at 10:22 pm?  Wouldn't that read 22:22, 2/22/2222?
>
>(There's one in every class/group.)
>:>)
>
>Sharri


And I can't resist adding that if you really enjoy this sort of thing, you 
needn't wait twenty years or even twenty minutes, you have only to reset 
your clock to enjoy those 'fascinating' and 'historic' moments over and 
over again.  A cool thing about time is that it always happens 
'now'.  Quick everybody, get out those digital clocks and start setting 
them to just before a big event...  suggestion:  photograph or film 
yourself at this activity -- could become part of some 'permanent' collection!

Mike
Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon@mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com 

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From: Daniel Dew <ddew@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:40:15 -0500
Subject: [Baren 17081] Re: MDF 

As far as I know, there is no such thing as "surface grain" on the boards.
I sanded mine before starting, probably due to habit more than need.
It is always good advice to sand first, heck, I even sand my lino first!
Good luck.
One thing I did forget to mention was that there is a MDF board that stands
up better to water than others.  The advice I received was that if I was
going to use MDF, get it from a local cabinet maker.  They have a tendency
to buy the best and most are very happy to give away scraps they can't use.
Funny thing is, what they consider scrap is prime size for most of us
printers.

Daniel L. Dew
http://www.dandew.com/
ddew@tampabay.rr.com


> From: Charles Morgan <morgan@uvvm.uvic.ca>
> Reply-To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:42:29 -0800
> To: baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp
> Subject: [Baren 17073] MDF
> 
> Daniel, thanks so much for the clarification.
> 
> I checked, and the MDF I have been using is NOT the low density shop grade,
> although it did come from Home Depot. They had a lower priced MDF, but when
> I looked at it, I did not think it suitable, so I bought the higher grade
> stuff. Just what it is I bought, I am not certain. From the tests I
> reported previously, the stuff I have stands up very well to moisture.
> 
> I also checked with a local supplier, and "Rangerboard" is just a specific
> brand name for MDF.
> 
> So, it looks like one has to be careful about the quality of the stuff you
> buy, just as with any wood product.
> 
> By the way Daniel, can you answer the questions I previously posted about
> surface grain in MDF. Does the stuff you are using have any significant
> surface grain? Can it be sanded out?
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles the neophyte
> 



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From: John Amoss <amoss@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:13:10 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17082] Southern Graphics 

Hello friends-
Perhaps this has been discussed earlier, but who in Baren is planning to
attend the Southern Graphics Council convention in New Orleans this April?

If you'd prefer to message me offlist, please do!

- -John Amoss
amoss@mindspring.com


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From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer@iinet.net.au>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 02 23:58:35 -0000
Subject: [Baren 17083] Re: Palindromic time....2002 

Wanda,


>02/02/2002?  At 2:02 am?


It was   20:02  20.20  2002
20:02 = 8.02 pm
20.20 = 20th February
2002  = the Year 2002 AD

It is called a "palindromic time".  A palindromic time is one that reads 
the same forwards and backwards.  It is the first palindromic time since 
11.11, 11/11, 1111 and the next one will be 21.12, 21/12, 2112 or 9.12pm 
on December 21, 2112.

It is only evident on the digital time pieces it was never evident on the 
old clock faces.

I don't think many of us will see the next one!

Cuttlefish Ld are common in our waters so that is probably why so many 
shells are washed up on our beaches.

Jan




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From: "Rudolf Stalder" <stalderp@mindspring.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:19:12 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17084] standards/quality 
Georga writes

"hello everyone, ....i was going to try hanga with this ... but one thing
after another happened.... "

Thanks Georga for posting

Similar events/problems are reported in the "Large Print Exchange" actually
on its way, ranging from plate-damage, ink which does not work, work-load,
health to house-moving. I shall collect the "exchange-experience" from all
participants and publish it at Barens, so everybody gets some insight in
other people's problems.

In regard of standards and quality, I am very reluctant to comment on work
without knowing about the circumstances of its creation. Most likely I think
I would tell what is rather self-evident and miss what could be of eventual
help.  If I have a problems with a print
I address directly the people which may be able to provide support and have
not
been disappointed so far.

Rudolf



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From: Charles Morgan <morgan@uvvm.uvic.ca>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:26:41 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17085] Why use MDF? 

Sarah wrote:

 >Personally, I have to say that even though I'm on a very tight budget like
 >many artists, when it comes to materials I go for quality rather than
 >"cheap", so I find it hard to understand why anyone would want to carve
 >particle board rather than actual wood.  In addition, if this "MDF" is
 >indeed particle board, doesn't it give off formadehyde and other nasty 
stuff?

I hate to look like I am becoming an advocate for MDF, because I am NOT. 
But there may be many reasons for using it.

(1) You can probably get MDF no matter where you live ... can't always get 
cherry or basswood or shina plywood or ... perhaps in some cases it is 
better to use what is AVAILABLE rather than do nothing for lack of 
appropriate materials ... And MDF is probably much better than lots of 
stuff (fir, cedar) that might be available.

(2) MDF comes in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets ... been a long time since I saw 
any basswood in those dimensions ... If you want to cut BIG, MDF or plywood 
look like good bets, while natural wood planks just are non-starters.

(3) At least SOME types of MDF will take much finer detail than most (all 
??) woods.

(4) At a time when the ecological impact of man is so readily apparent, it 
makes sense to try a product that is just sawdust and glue ... a product 
that uses what is otherwise considered a waste material (sawdust), rather 
than continuing to use  a diminishing resource like prime hardwoods.

(5) Linoleum is not a natural product either, but is great for certain 
artistic applications. Plywood is not a natural product either ... I can 
just hear someone saying :

  "when it comes to materials I go for quality rather than "cheap", so I 
find it hard to understand why anyone would want to carve plywood rather 
than actual wood"

Until we experiment with new products, like MDF, we will not be able to 
find out how they may be used for our art. Always sticking to the tried and 
true sometimes becomes a rut inhibiting creativity.

(5) MDF is approved for interior construction, so SOME government agency 
has ruled it is not a danger to health ... Yeah, I know, I do not trust 
those b___ards either. But plywood also contains glues that give off fumes 
noxious to some. And most any wood that goes through a commercial sawmill 
is sprayed with anti-fungal agents to prevent staining. So unless you are 
cutting and milling your own timber, your planks are covered with very 
nasty chemicals; handle the wood, or (horrors) sand it, and you are exposed 
to some pretty awful stuff. So even your beloved prime hardwood planks can 
be a health hazard. Most of our inks, water based and oil based, contain 
noxious materials. As artists, we are exposed to much noxious stuff, and we 
need to be careful to minimize exposure. The concentrations are the real 
issue, I suppose. My point here is NOT that I think there are no hazards 
with MDF ... RATHER, it is just that MDF is not any different than other 
materials we use ... of course we should be careful with it, as we should 
be with ALL our materials.

Now, having said all this, I am ANXIOUS to try some good woods. I still 
think it was good for me to just grab something available and start trying 
it while my enthusiasm was running high. And if I get a craving for carving 
at 2 am and the Basswood Store is closed, I may again creep into my 
basement and lovingly fondle a bit of MDF ...


------------------------------

From: "Larson, DeAnna" <DLarson@lincolnplayhouse.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:51:25 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17086] water based inks 

I'm new to the list and relatively new to printmaking. I've worked with oil
based inks but would like to use something more enviornmentally & health
safe. I've been seeing references to water based colors/inks/pigments mixed
with rice paste and would like something more concrete to go on. Could
someone please give me a good reference /source of how you would mix this
kind of ink?
thanks!
dlarson@lincolnplayhouse.com

------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:55:28 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17087] Re: Palindromic time....2002 

Jan....
By golly your more than just a pretty face and wonderful personality.....

So I was correct in my announcement "Never Again"......
Before I get jumped on.... let me add...   "in our life time"

Graham



>Wanda,
>

>>02/02/2002?  At 2:02 am?

>
>It was   20:02  20.20  2002
>20:02 = 8.02 pm
>20.20 = 20th February
>2002  = the Year 2002 AD
>
>It is called a "palindromic time".  A palindromic time is one that reads
>the same forwards and backwards.  It is the first palindromic time since
>11.11, 11/11, 1111 and the next one will be 21.12, 21/12, 2112 or 9.12pm
>on December 21, 2112.
>


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:18:01 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17088] RE: Why use MDF? 

>>So even your beloved prime hardwood planks can

be a health hazard.

Right you are, last night I was "fondling" a 24" x 36" piece of plank cherry
and almost dropped it on my foot. In my haste to catch it, I painfully broke
a nail and cursed loudly which caused the cat to jump on the other cat who
leapt to my shoulder and scratched m neck; excited by the commotion, the
dogs pushed the studio door open and knocked me down to lick my face,
causing a rash to break out later and a bruise on my back bumper...that
darned hardwood... :-0

I whole heartily agree with experimenting with all types of stuff. After a
while I think most of us are drawn back to a few materials which we prefer
to work with. Consequently, we get to know these better and get better
results with them, becoming then advocates and defenders of whatever stuff,
which is okay. I often sell the original carved blocks, which has made me
very aware of what the thing looks like after I carve. Carved plywood or MDF
blocks don't look as good as a carved solid cherry plank, at least
perceptually to the collector.

Whatsoever ye do, do it heartily!
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From: "Gillyin Gatto" <gillying@Maineline.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:17:43 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17089] printing for exchanges 

hello  bareners
Georga's  thoughts on having problems with
the printing for an exchange
put me in mind of how i feel when i do a new
color /multiple block    print
and that is- exploratory  ......

i need to teach myself
how this combination of blocks i have created
 works together to create my picture

i often dont yet know   what colors and/ or
order of printing   i will settle into
when i do my first print/proofing

i did not feel any thing further when i first saw
Georga's block than  i like the colors

i like the composition and depth
and maybe printing the background in some brightcolor
would make it work better than it does now

i guess no one ever said these were
supposed to be exchanges of masterpieces

i would rather call them  ARTISTS PROOFS

and they ,become " rare prints"

i  , for one  ,
am learning of my own insecurity

and happily ,shedding it-

cut   print

i go to cut and haul
to cut a couple of dead HACMATACS
in my  yard  for fire wood

HACKMATAC ,a local name  for Tamarack, or Larch,
is the hardest softwood
in my  mixed desiduous forest
and very twisty


POPPLE -local name for  Quaking Aspen/Poplar,
is the softest hardwood
and fun to carve


that should give you all something to get into for quite a while!

Gillyin   machias me  usa



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From: Artsmadis@aol.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:20:37 EST
Subject: [Baren 17090] Re: Palindromic  

Stop, murder us not, tonsured rumpots.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Darrell

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:30:55 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17091] Re: Georgia's print, NYFD folio, time.... 02/20/2002 12:30:58 PM 

Georgia G. writes:
"... this has been a most humbling experience for me   and now im leery of
entering into any more exchanges    i feel the latest dialog about the
quality of the prints in exchanges was totally inspired by my awful print
..."

That's funny that during this discussion on print quality, MANY people have
come forth thinking it was their
very own print that others objected too. I think that speaks well to our
struggle to become better artists and better
printmakers. To not be content with our current level of expression or
technical ability speaks wonders of the
talent found in this group and our wishes to continue to improve.

Re Georgia's image. I will say that when I receive an exchange I go thru it
by myself in a quiet room with appropriate lighting and try to let the
prints "speak" to me.  First meeting sort of thing. After going thru all
the prints once or twice I go back and single out those that hit homeruns
for me. Whatever that may be. Georgia; your print was one of half dozen
that I pulled aside and savored. Perhaps your technique went south, perhaps
you are not happy with the results or they don't match your
expectations...but I found it to be a good image with strong compositional
aspects. Sometimes is hard to tell if the overprinting or as someone else
discussed earlier the missed registration is intentional or not.  Only you
as an artist can make that decision as to wether you are satisfied or not.
But I am certainly glad you decided to send it in as is....it was one of
many images I was so happy to receive. Thanks.

NYFD Folio. I guess now I am the third barener to have had the pleasure to
see the NYFD benefit prints as a set. WOW..
this is a fantastic group of 24, rivals the very best of past Baren
exchanges...talk about emotional output ! ...(and for those looking.....not
a smudge, a missed registration or even a fingerprint among the lot !).
All the prints are worth savoring but three prints stick in my head from
first look last night.....Bea Gold's portrayal of a tearful mother and
daughter looking up into a blackened sky (very reminiscent of the work of
german artist  Kathe Kollwitz (1867-1945)....Georgia's fireman's helmet
laying in a pile of loose debris...among which debris you can see the
painful expression of victims (speaks to me not only of the many lives lost
but also of all the many fractured families that remain) and the third
print is a haunting b&w image of the remaining WTC wreck structure with a
ghostly (blind embossed) image of the original towers rising above the
wreck.  Very powerful imagery.

Thanks to all that participated and a very big THANKS to John Center for
getting the idea rolling, coordinating and collating the sets and Dean
Clark of Graphic Chemical for his paper donations.  Besides the ongoing
show in NY by Carol Lyons and the one that begins next week in the Chicago
area (Palatine, by Sharen Linder)...Daniel Dew in Florida and Barbara Mason
in Oregon also have come forth with plans to exhibit the works. I will scan
the set asap for the Baren website. Stay tuned.

thanks...Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois),

ps. Nostradamus wrote about Palindromic time, time travel, future events &
premonitions...according to...palindromic time occurrences are open doors,
gates into time travel and a fourth dimension....used by those that believe
and posses the knowledge... 200202202002....for me the journey begins
tonight....8:02pm, February 20th, the year 2002..... hey..I better get
scanning those pics I am running out of time...got to pack for my
trip...don't know if they have scanners and email where I am going....so
long, till we meet again..happy printing!


------------------------------

From: "Jean Eger Womack" <jeaneger@jeaneger.com>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:01:36 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17092] basswwood 

I, too, realize that basswood is a soft wood, but I buy my basswood at
MacBeath Hardwoods in Berkeley.

So there.

Rudolph, do you have your art work displayed anywhere on the World Wide Web?

Jean Eger Womack
e-mail: jeaneger@jeaneger.com
http://www.jeaneger.com




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End of Baren Digest V18 #1729
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