Baren Digest              Monday, 18 February 2002      Volume 18 : Number 1725


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon@mlyon.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:01:30 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17025] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1724 

At 10:00 PM 02/17/2002 +0900, Graham Scholes wrote:

>From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:47:16 -0800
>Subject: [Baren 17014] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722
>
>Excuse me Mike but Basswood is not a hard wood.
>It is a tight grained softwood that is just what Hanga printmakers enjoy.
>Check my post from yesterday...
>
>Graham/Sidney BC
>An Island in the Pacific
>Home of the Boot Camp
> http://woodblock.info


You're excused, Graham.  Even though it cuts 'like butter' and is 
relatively light weight, Basswood IS a hardwood (not a hard wood, a 
hardwood)!  Check out 
http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/species_guide/display_species.asp?species=basswood

I read your yesterday's posts (I subscribe in 'digest' form, so I'm usually 
a day late and a dollar short) and agree with the rest of your comments -- 
you are very articulate and I'm sure I'm not alone in genuinely 
appreciating the time and care you frequently take to answer and suggest.

Mike



------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <morgan@uvvm.uvic.ca>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:03:32 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17026] MDF experiment 

I was worried about the stability of MDF during a long print run. I believe 
it was Phillip who suggested that if it got wet it would swell up and 
crumble. Now, that sounds like the old particle board I knew and loathed. 
So I decided to try a little experiment, and here are the results.

I cut a piece of MDF about 2 inches wide and about 6 inches long; it was 
3/4 of an inch thick. With no surface preparation, I carved (1) a raised 
diamond and engraved (2) an X, (3) one "lightning" type line, and (4) one 
straight line. The diamond was carved using a Japanese knife and a large 
Japanese C gouge, both obtained through Graham. The X was incised with a 
small C gouge from Lee Valley, and the lines were incised with a small V 
gouge from Lee Valley.

I made about 10 prints with Speedball black water soluble block printing 
ink on standard copy paper. The ink was rolled on with a brayer, and the 
prints were made by hand by rubbing the back of the paper with a large 
"cork" used to spread wax on cross country skis. After about 3 or 4 prints, 
the printing became pretty uniform. I then scrubbed the ink off of the 
block under a tap of running water, using an old tooth brush.

I then floated the block face down in a plastic tray filled with tap water, 
and I left it for 5 HOURS. After 5 hours, the middle of the back of the 
block was still dry. The block had absorbed water, however. It had 
increased uniformly in thickness by about 1/16 of an inch. The (printing) 
surface of the block appeared to be a bit mottled. I used a towel to remove 
the excess moisture from the block and then printed it again several times. 
It took the ink well and printed pretty much as before. Again, I scrubbed 
off the ink under the running tap using a tooth brush. The block did NOT 
crumble and turn to mush, as has been suggested and as I half expected. 
After this harsh treatment it was just fine.

I set the block aside and left it to dry for about 14 HOURS. It now looks 
pretty much as it did before I started printing, except for some slight 
discoloration where it was inked. It has uniformly shrunk back to its 
original thickness.

I would say that the stuff is quite stable, and would be suitable for long 
print runs using water soluble inks. There is no way that a print run would 
be comparable to soaking in a pan of water for 5 hours. If the block was 
still printable after soaking in water that long, then it will stand up to 
a long print run just fine.

I do not know how MDF works with oil based inks, having never tried it. I 
would like to hear other's experiences on the subject.

At this point, I have carved several blocks in MDF. I find that if I am not 
carful with my cutting, it is easy to chip the cutting edge of my tools. If 
I try to turn the knife too sharply or use it as a lever to take out a cut 
chip, then I am in danger of chipping the cutting edge or breaking off the 
delicate point of the blade. Similarly, with the small C gouge, if I use it 
as a lever to lift out a chip, it is easy to chip the cutting edge. I have 
very little experience carving wood. But from what little I have, it seems 
to me that the MDF is a much harder material. But it cuts very smoothly in 
all directions, unlike wood.

I do not mean to advocate MDF over wood. I just do not have enough 
experience. I may very well come to prefer wood. I used MDF because it was 
cheap and readily available; the stuff I used was construction scrap and 
thus cost me nothing. I just wanted something I could practise on to get 
the feel of the tools and the whole printing process.

It seems to me that MDF would be admirably suited for woodblock engraving, 
but I have not yet tried that. Surely engravers tools would be no more 
likely to be dulled by MDF then by copper or zinc plates. When my etching 
press arrives, I may give it a try.

I did not want to go to a lot of trouble carving several blocks, only to 
have them fall apart in the middle of a print run. I have put my own mind 
at ease on this matter. MDF does seem to be tough on tools, no doubt 
tougher than wood. But it is CHEAP, readily available, and carves easily.

I noted that one of the members of the group used oriented strand board 
(sometimes called OSB or "chip board" ) to make a print for one of the 
shows connected with Sept 11. I know she was trying for a certain effect 
there. I want to emphasize that MDF is vastly different from OSB. MDF is 
not "chunky", cuts easily and does not tear the way OSB does. Further, 
unlike OSB, the surface of MDF is very smooth. And while OSB is notorious 
for absorbing water, swelling, and coming apart when wet, MDF is extremely 
stable in damp conditions.

One last point. I went to a local art store to pick up a piece of 
hardboard. What they are now selling as hardboard is actually 1/4 inch MDF. 
I can still get standard hardboard at the lumber yard, but MDF is cheaper. 
I know that MDF will stand up to water much better than will hardboard; 
since the art store is selling it, I suppose it must be fine for oil paints 
and acrylics as well. I wonder if there is a general shift by painters to 
using MDF instead of hardboard.

I would love to hear the experiences others have had using this stuff. 
Enough of my drivel.

Cheers to you all ... Charles


------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:13:20 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17027] MDF experiment 

Charles...

This is an excellent explanation and account of the happenings with MDF.
I did not know that it could withstand saturation of water... and not 
deteriorate to a point of uselessness.  Good to know.
It does not surprise me about the wear and tear on the tools. 

I am looking forward to getting to know you at BootCamp.  I can see you 
will be a real asset to the group. Just heard from Jan Telfer from downunder and she 
is going to be with us for both weeks so you will get to know her. I have another reason 
for the pleasure of your company in the second week.... seems you and I will be support 
for each other in a class full of gals.     

While on the subject of Boot Camp, we just heard from Marco. As he is now a fresh air 
inspector (unemployed) he has had to cancel his 4th year of attending. We are saddened 
by this as he was such a creative and vibrant guy. 

ttys

Graham 


------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:55:49 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17028] Hardwoods/Softwood. 


>http://www.hardwoodinfo.com/species_guide/display_species.asp?species=basswood


I checked this out and can see nowhere that it says Basswood is a 
hard wood. It may include it in the hardwood category but be assured 
it is not a Hard Wood.  It is the density of wood that determines is 
hardness....

The site says ....
Hardwoods are deciduous trees that have broad leaves, produce a fruit 
or nut and generally go dormant in the winter.
Softwoods are conifers, evergreen and cone-bearing trees.
This is a generalization......

You don't measure a wood hardness by the category but by its specific gravity.

Specific gravity when green and 12% moisture

Basswood 	0.32	-
Willow	 	0.36	-	0.39
Cottonwood	0.31	-	0.40
Poplar       	0.40	-	0.42
Cherry	 	0.47	-	0.50
Soft Maple 	0.44	-	0.54
Hard Maple 	0.52	-	0.63
Yellow Birch	0.48	-	0.65

Looking at the softwood category you will find .....
Douglas Fir & Larch			0.50
Hemlock				0.43
Western Cedars			0.36
White Pine			0.36

Knowing that pine at 0.36 is a soft wood, so this therefore makes 
Basswood at 0.37 a soft wood

You wrote.....

>---and agree with the rest of your comments --

Now that you understand how wood hardness is defined I guess you will 
have to bite your tongue and agree thaat my post was correct.    Live 
and learn Mike ....

In closing I must admit I screwed up with regards to Pine. The post 
by James M got me wondering and so check my stock and found that what 
I have picked up to test was in fact Yellow Cedar.... "well slap my 
silly".  Thanks for catching my on that James.

Let the tongues stop waggling and the carving begin.....

Regards

Graham




>At 10:00 PM 02/17/2002 +0900, Graham Scholes wrote:

>>From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
>>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 10:47:16 -0800
>>Subject: [Baren 17014] Re: Baren Digest V18 #1722
>>
>>Excuse me Mike but Basswood is not a hard wood.
>>It is a tight grained softwood that is just what Hanga printmakers enjoy.
>>Check my post from yesterday...
>>

>
>You're excused, Graham.  Even though it cuts 'like butter' and is 
>relatively light weight, Basswood IS a hardwood (not a hard wood, a 
>hardwood)!  Check out
>I read your yesterday's posts (I subscribe in 'digest' form, so I'm 
>usually a day late and a dollar short) and agree with the rest of 
>your comments -- you are very articulate and I'm sure I'm not alone 
>in genuinely appreciating the time and care you frequently take to 
>answer and suggest.
>
>Mike



------------------------------

From: b.patera@att.net
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:09:33 +0000
Subject: [Baren 17029] Re: wood question 

Hi Barbara,

Thanks for the additional information on shina plywood. 
Am adding it to the folder I've stared to compile on 
different woods.... up to now I have used whatever came 
to hand... including driftwood.

As to hunks.... you are right!

Barbara P.


------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:37:45 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17030] Re: MDF experiment 

Hi Charles,

You are getting a lot of interesting info about wood/MDF etc. My experience with
MDF is this: the lino blocks I get from Portland Linocut are made of MDF (also
known as "ranger board" don't ask me why) and have linoleum glued to the top
surface. I have seen these blocks after they were left out in the rain & the
edges soaked up rainwater & swelled up underneath the lino so that you couldn't
print them either in a press or by hand with a baren. Now, these results are not
scientific - but I sure wouldn't want to take the chance with a block I
painstakingly carved my designs into. You can varnish the stuff with a couple of
coats of spar varnish & make them waterproof - but would you lose fine lines? And
maybe, just maybe there is more than one kind of MDF - but it's still looks like
fine grain particle board to me.

For what it's worth - $.02

Wanda



Charles Morgan wrote:
<snip> 

> I did not want to go to a lot of trouble carving several blocks, only to
> have them fall apart in the middle of a print run. I have put my own mind
> at ease on this matter. MDF does seem to be tough on tools, no doubt
> tougher than wood. But it is CHEAP, readily available, and carves easily.
><snip>


------------------------------

From: Charles Morgan <morgan@uvvm.uvic.ca>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:26:45 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17031] bootcamp, paper 

Graham (and all),

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. I am quite looking forward to 
bootcamp. The fact that there will be so many ladies present is an added 
incentive, for sure. What I am really hoping for is a major brain 
transplant ... well, not a transplant really, as I do not want you to lose 
anything in the process ... maybe a brain "clone" ... I was going to sell 
mine, and I figure it should get a pretty big price, as it has hardly been 
used ...

And thanks for the tip about the local source for basswood. I will try to 
get out there and pick some up and give it a try.

I loved the comment about becoming a "fresh air inspector". Becoming 
unemployed is no joke ... my sweetie just lost her job as well. But, 
maintaining a sense of humor is the best defence, and the best revenge 
against any sort of injustice.

I could use a bit of advice about paper. I do not want to invest in really 
expensive handmade papers for my early trials. But I would like to get 
something nice that prints easily, is not too expensive, and is likely to 
be available locally. I have read various books, and wandered through the 
local art stores looking at papers. Now I am just stunned, slack jawed and 
drooling. Suggestions of what to start with as a beginner would be most 
welcome. And I suppose that with water based inks one should dampen the 
paper before printing.

Cheers ..... Charles


------------------------------

From: "Lee and Barbara Mason" <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:17:51 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17032] Fw: Memorial 

I have about 20 prints now, so things are looking up! Thanks to all who sent
them and if anyone else wants to do this, sent prints to:
Barbara Mason
4440 SW 198th
Aloha OR 97007 USA

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "printalliance" <printalliance@mindspring.com>
To: "American Print Alliance" <printalliance@mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Memorial



> Dear Contemporary Impressions subscribers,
>
> Prints for the Memorial Portfolio are arriving in a steady trickle, but
> there should be a flood! The councils have asked to extend the deadline as
> much as possible, so here are the new dates:
>
> (a) Mail your entry by March 15 to your council's collection center -- see
> the address list on our web site.
>
> (b) Or bring your entry to the SGC conference in New Orleans and drop it

off

> at the registration table on Wednesday afternoon, April 3, or Thursday
> morning, April 4.
>
> (c) Or, if you're a 2002 subscriber to Contemporary Impressions or sending
> your subscription renewal with your entry, mail it by April 4 to our
> office --
> American Print Alliance, 302 Larkspur, Peachtree City GA 30269-2210
>
> If you don't have time to cut a block or etch a plate, won't you pull a
> monoprint next time you're in the studio? Work into a section cut from a
> proof or enlarge a detail from a snapshot! We can include almost any
> original 2-d work on paper, including original inkjet prints, photographs
> and ink or pencil drawings, but the paper size must be 10" high x 8" wide.
> PLEASE read the instructions at
> www.printalliance.org/exhibits/sept_11_memorial/memorial_portfolio.html --
> everything is the same except the deadline -- and print the submission

form.

> (If you can't access the web site, send a self-addressed stamped envelope

to

> the Alliance office and we'll mail you a copy.)
>
> There are about 5,000 artists in the American Print Alliance. But, we won't
>have thousands of artworks for the Memorial if everyone leaves it to someone
> else. We need you to take part! The promise of displaying such large numbers
> of prints (like the Ljubljana and other international biennials) opens a
> whole new set of venues to us. And any one work is still seen by more
>people than it would be in a small exhibit because so many more attend the big
> events. Names of all the donating artists will be listed on our web site and
> every image shown on the site will be captioned. This Memorial can show the
> country and the world that artists are not a selfish elite. Indeed, we can
> show the families and friends of victims that we care and we can help many
> communities see the arts as part of their lives.
>
> If you've read the journal, seen an exhibit I've curated, talked with me at
> a conference, you know that I'm passionate about prints and a stubborn
> advocate for artists. So, even if you don't have any other reason for taking
> part in this Memorial, please do it for me.

> Thank you,
> Carol
> Carol Pulin, director, American Print Alliance
> non-profit consortium of printmaker's councils
> 302 Larkspur Turn, Peachtree City, GA 30269
> www.PrintAlliance.org, director@printalliance.org
>
>



------------------------------

From: Graham <gscholes@woodblock.info>
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:41:42 -0800
Subject: [Baren 17033] bootcamp, paper 

Charles wrote.....


>Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. I am quite looking forward to bootcamp. 
The fact that there will be so many ladies present is an added incentive, for sure. 
What I am really hoping for is a major brain transplant ... well, not a transplant 
really, as I do not want you to lose anything in the process ... maybe a brain "clone" ... 
I was going to sell mine, and I figure it should get a pretty big price, as it has hardly been used ...


Hardly used !!!! I know you work at the University of Victoria at a pretty high level.... 
oh dear, now we have a credibility gap.


>And thanks for the tip about the local source for basswood. I will try to get out there and 
pick some up and give it a try.


Phone Westwind 656 0848 to make sure they have some decent widths boards. It will be rough 
cut and they will plane it while you wait. Compared to MDF, you'll think you have gone to 
paradise when you start using Basswood.  Oh for goodness sake, silly me, we live in Victoria.... 
known as Paradise.


>I could use a bit of advice about paper. I do not want to invest in really expensive handmade 
papers for my early trials. But I would like to get something nice that prints easily, is not 
too expensive, and is likely to be available locally.


I am sure that you can purchase Shin Torinoko at Herald Street Art world or Opus.  If 
not let me  know I have some here. This is a non archival paper but certainly good for 
experimenting.  I have tested other papers and all have their problems when using waterbase 
inks and a baren. You require  a press in order to put to use the workaround. I will be 
discussing these at Bootcamp with  suggestions for workaround. Too involved and lengthy to 
get into it here.


>Suggestions of what to start with as a beginner would be most welcome. And I suppose that 
with water based inks one should dampen the paper before printing.


When preparing the Shin Torinoko you need to soak it overnight or at least 4 to 5 hours.  
Remove it and squeegee as much of the water out as possible.  Once this is done, layer the 
sheets between newsprint or blot with a paper towel to remove the moisture so that there is no 
shine on the paper.  When this is done keep them damp during printing by storing them between 
dampened sheets of blotting paper.  (Harold Street Art) 

Have fun....

Graham


------------------------------

From: FurryPressII@aol.com
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:54:18 EST
Subject: [Baren 17034] Re: MDF experiment 

my 2 cents on the wood thing
pine ;  hate the stuff for cutting only use it to imbose things into it  such 
as wire or other objects    to cut YUCK
plywood;  only use it for large arears  such as a flat or simple cutting  
dulls tools and does not cut as well as other things.
lino;  good place to start and has some nice uses for more complex prints 
(thank you picaso)   i feel this is the best thing for a beginner to use  and 
now and  again i still use it after 30 years of printing.
cherry;  works well for most of my cutting   right now i am useing it to do a 
block book of 100 pages of text     works well for this.
maple plank grain;    great for detail   absolutly the best for intercate 
detail  you can get wonderful detail with hard maple as it does not splinter  
 oh so strong. my horses were cut in plank grain maple   I have fooled wood 
engravers with the detail you can get with plank grain hard maple.
pear;  to dream over   Albrect Durer was said to use this
end grain  maple;  wood engraving   
end grain boxwood; like pear something to dream over esp over 4 by 5"  lol 
and also can break your bank
corian:  engraves better than end grain maple at half the cost and the size 
is almost unlimited  the only difficulty is that it is very hard on the hands 
can't work on it as long as wood but the detail is as good as box for 
engraving. also can beprinted intaligo

wonderfull new Carol  ;-)!!!!!  back to work on the mailing and other things 
we talked about

aussies centrally located  ROFL    if you pay the air fare i would be glad to 
come (a real taxmanian devil)

FURRY EDGES ????  john of the furry press never has "furry" edges  bite you 
tounge please   lol

we know how to party in CHICAGO

JOHN CENTER

------------------------------

From: slinders@attbi.com
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:53:08 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17035] Vandercook Proof Press for sale/ Philadelphia 

         
<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1514009027>
So far the price is right!
Sharen

------------------------------

From: "Diane Tigue" <dtigue@kscable.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:04:44 -0600
Subject: [Baren 17036] Re: Hardwoods/Softwood. 


Hardwoods/Softwood.Hello Graham - I appreciate your knowledge and 
sharing so much - I am new to wood - I've done one with all shina from 
Mcclain's -=3D it was wee.  A printmaking friend of mine just printed a 
3 foot X5 foot (2 actually) woodcut - monocolor on a french broad(sic) 
press.  We all pitched in to heft these things around.  he printed them 
face down.  Had to pull 3 images before they were really up and alas the 
bottom third of the prints were ricey.  Our professor thinks the french 
press has been used for so many small prints ( it is the graduate press) 
usually 18X24, that the press bed (stainless steel) is warped and won't 
print all the way on something so large - the press is at least 20 years 
old and been through many a grad. There is a point to this and that is 
that jeff used regular old plywood that you get at home depot.  He used 
expensive Japanese tools and regularly sharpened them but had many a 
"hangnail" if you will with rips along the line.  He said that was what 
he could afford - do you have a recommendation for something inexpensive 
but that you don't have to fight and repair with bondo.  Diane
 

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End of Baren Digest V18 #1725
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