Baren Digest Wednesday, 3 October 2001 Volume 16 : Number 1575 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ArtfulCarol@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:13:08 EDT Subject: [Baren 15831] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1572 Hi Marilyn, Who am I to say about hand coloring.? Personally, as a watercolorist I never wanted to combine the two thinking it was "cheating" for me, a copout, so I haven't done it so far.. But it is accepted to do and many woodblock artists do hand coloring. Naive lay people may even think hand coloring is more valuable when they see a print described that way. So, for your question as to whether you can hand color - do as the spirit prompts. Are you the same Marilyn as Sunninfunn? Carol ------------------------------ From: "npwilson@pacbell.net" Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 07:51:50 +0000 Subject: [Baren 15832] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1574 Hello Baren folk: I have been reading the digest faithfully for several months and I am even signed up for Exchange #11. I am a bit shy about posting since I have never been part of an on-line forum before and since I am a rank beginner when it comes to this style of wood block printing. Still I have been captivated by this beautiful art form, and I am trying to understand it. I produced a rather complicated piece for our Exchange #11. I had several problems in the printing process and I am hoping I can get some advice from veterans. I wish I had a big enough press to print it, but I don't. I printed it by hand with a cheap baren and it took me hours and hours. First I find the ink very hard to control. It gets into areas where I haven't intended it. I don't know if my paper is too damp or my ink too wet, but it seems to blob up sometimes. Another issue was that since it took hours over several days to print the whole piece, the paper started getting dryer and dryer and I am unclear if I can remoisten it, even if there is ink on it already. I figured it would just make it all run, so I didn't try to do that. The worst part of it was that the very last color I put on made the whole result completely unacceptable to me. Now I am wondering if there is a way, after the prints are all completely dry, to try to overprint some of the parts of it. Is this ever done successfully? If so, can you rewet the paper, or would one just print over the dry color? Thanks for any advice you could give me. ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:43:26 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15833] Wow..... Once upon a time ... Actually Sept 30th .... I mistakenly clicked the url http://barenforum.org and wonders of wonders I was allowed in.... I then send a test posting to the Baren List..... It was accepted.... And I thought living in the Garden of Eden... Sidney BC... where it practically never snows and we can go for weeks and weeks without a cloud in the sky ... was heaven. I wish to thank who... or is that whom... ever cleared the way. I promise to be helpful and never never get into a online hassle. Graham/Sidney BC An Island in the Pacific Just so you know.... Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie!' until you can find a rock. ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 08:57:55 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15834] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1574 Oh, my goodness, what a brave person you are - to do your first hanga print (and a large one, I might add) for an exchange! The blobs, as you have rightly guessed are either from too much ink or too much moisture. As to the paper becoming dry- I have plastic bags I slip everything into while printing & still have to add moisture occasionally. Even in the usually damp & humid Northwest US. I have re-moistened prints a zillion times & never have had any running or bleeding of colors. I have actually held them under running water to see if there would be fading or running of colors & no! But, (and you knew there was a but, didn't you?) if you have some of those uncontrolled blobs of color here & there - they might run a bit. Try a test on one or two & see what happens. Depending on your style - loose or tight - it might work to your advantage. I admire your courage & your willingness to jump right in & *do* it! Can't wait to see the results! I've got to go now - I'm carving/printing night & day to meet the deadlines! Wanda "npwilson@pacbell.net" wrote: > > Hello Baren folk: > I have been reading the digest faithfully for several months and I am even > signed up for Exchange #11. I am a bit shy about posting since I have never > been part of an on-line forum before and since I am a rank beginner when it > comes to this style of wood block printing. Still I have been captivated by > this beautiful art form, and I am trying to understand it. ------------------------------ From: Graham Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:58:50 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15835] Re:Advice from a Veteran. Before answering "" it would be lovely to have a handle/firstname. I find it much better than saying .... 'hey you' or 'hi you' or 'Dear Ms. Wilson.' wink wink. Oh oh, now I'm flirting and you don't even know me. My second posting in months and months and already I am in trouble. Sorry I digress....... I can answer all your questions and will take them one at a time. I will need some feedback about your equipment In the event you do not know me, please have a look at http://members.home.net/gscholes/ and http://members.home.net/woodblocks at the bottom of this page you will find 10 links to some techy info stuff. So many of your questions require a picture (digital) to see the factors you describe. Can you send me any the would illustrate your plight. >I wish I had a big enough press to print it, but I don't. Presses are fine but for me the use of a Baren is so ..... so hands on. You don't need a press to do Hanga. As a matter of fact I don't think you do Hanga on a press. I don't know if it has something to do with cheating or tradition! >printed it by hand with a cheap baren and it took me hours and hours. Most of what I have done has taken days and days and often months from start to finish. This hanga thingie and slow, long and arduous work. But oh.... the results. It is very important to have a reasonably good baren. There are some out there that can do a very good job without having to spend hundreds of $ for the Japanese jobs. If you wish to investigate I can give you the name of a person near Victoria BC who has experimented with different materials for both the Etegawa and Shin and these are within a whisker of been like the real thing. Numerous baren members have them. They can vouch for them either on line of privately. Let me know and I will contact John and see if he will and has time to make up one for you. The last ones were $85.00 US >First I find the ink very hard to control. The inking brushes are also important. A good inking brush will afford good control of the way the ink is spread on the plate. What and where did you get your brushes? >It gets into areas where I haven't intended it. Too much ink would be my first thought or not enough body to the ink (too runny) More rice paste could be the answer. >I don't know if my paper is too damp or my ink too wet, but it >seems to blob up sometimes. I would have to know what papers you use. All papers are not made equal and each have their idiosyncrasies. >Another issue was that since it took hours over >several days to print the whole piece, the paper started getting dryer and >dryer. Definitely. Again it depend on what paper as to the moisture content. >I am unclear if I can remoisten it, even if there is ink on it >already. I figured it would just make it all run, so I didn't try to >do that. You can re-wet and inked print. I would like to know what inks you are using Powdered or liquid. >The worst part of it was that the very last color I put on made the >whole result completely unacceptable to me. What was unacceptable? Can you explain in more detail. >Now I am wondering if there is away, after the prints are all >completely dry, to try to overprint some of the parts of it. Yes you can. Re-wet the paper and carry on as if you were normal. (as if the paper never dried. >Is this ever done successfully? If so, can you rewet the paper, I do it often making sure the moisture content of the paper is equal to what it was on the first burnishing. >or would one just print over the dry color? If you don't wet the paper your registeration would be out of line. The wet paper expands and there for you must get the paper back to the same dimension as it was in the first inking/burnishing. When I get some feedback from you I will be able to walk you through your problems. Regards Graham/Sidney BC An Island in the Pacific Just so you know.... If at first you do succeed, try not to look astonished. ------------------------------ From: "marilynn" Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:11:41 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15836] Re: Baren Digest V16 #1574 Quietly here in Washington on a beautiful fall day I read how we all are stimulated by our own impulses. As I went about doing this print for our firemen I had many images and other people had ideas. I looked I listened and I created disaster. I looked to me and what I do best and I am busy carving. The biggest lesson of all is to be yourself. I have not done many exchanges but those I have done have been wonderful. The baren packet was full of outstanding work and I learned. Next spring I hope to be able to do more exchanges. I am still awaiting the packet from Belgium with the bookmarks. I sent mine out slightly damp lol, yes it can be a push Marilynn ------------------------------ From: "Charles and Gail Sheffield" Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 21:41:26 -0500 Subject: [Baren 15837] Escher and tesselation Interesting that Escher and tessellation were mentioned on Baren. Three years ago I traveled to Ecuador, both upper Amazon basin and Andean highlands (an incredible trip). One of the highland villages we visited, the name of which escapes me, was one with a very long, even pre-Incan, tradition of producing textiles. They now weave sweaters, hats, small tapestries, etc. I was quite surprised to see what were obviously Escher designs (several of which I bought because they are so attractive). Upon inquiry, I was told that, in the 1960's, the Peace Corp volunteers who had come to help revive the moribund weaving industry had introduced the Escher designs. Incidentally, even today, to purchase a hand loom, a family must make a major investment--about $60.00. Gail Sheffield Covington, LA ------------------------------ From: "David Stones" Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 12:35:46 +0900 Subject: [Baren 15838] Re: Print questions Dear new member N. P. Wilson (and All), I guess I probably come under the term "veteran" - and the following comments may seem too fuddy-duddy - especially as I don't often comment on questions now (except privately) as so many of the print "problems" just cannot be solved by e-mail. Hands on experience, by yourself, pushing your own limits slowly, often over years, will give most of the answers... there is no quick way to experience in woodblock. In our present age, it seems many want to produce either large, multi-colour or even complex work in the first few years. This is, frankly, impossible. You may be lucky but many are disappointed in results for the simple fact that they did not go through the basic steps, from carving to printing, that have to be taken SLOWLY. In the haste to get a print done or sent out, the quality often suffers and so does the satisfaction... I will repeat myself here, but when I studied (under Tokuriki Tomikichiro in Kyoto in the 70's) I was told to produce small-size prints, in a few colours (I used them for Christmas cards) instead of tackling Oban-size, multi-colour work (the discontinued, half-carved blocks by those that had given up could often be seen left in the studio). I was very encouraged when told I'd got the printing of 50 copies, even and right - at Print No. 29 - and that I was "maybe good enough" to show solo (after Print 59 and nine [part-time] years!). The "advice" I received ("It's wrong... try again", basically) was, some say, harsh, but it forced me to experiment and think - plus pushed my personal limits slowly forward - and forever dispatched haste and the number of print editions produced to the back of my mind - to be now lost and unimportant. This does not mean that we shouldn't offer corrective "advice" when things go wrong - but so much can be learnt by self-experiment... and this takes TIME. It cannot be by-passed and, in the long term, it will give each printer a slightly different style or technique... my teacher was also adamant that I should not become (what we now call) a clone, a copier or mimic of his style - that age had nearly gone anyway, even then. The advice received proved right and I pass it on for all who are beginning and those that think they'll "never get it right". For myself, maybe things are coming together. I'M pleased with SOME of what I do but not all - I'm pushing my personal limits still... whether or not they please other printers is irrelevant as its my own style done at my pace. There's no hurry... after all, the message is right here before my eyes everyday - in the blocks themselves - some took over 60 years to grow... slowly. Dave S (Ishita) ------------------------------ From: Wanda Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 21:28:53 -0700 Subject: [Baren 15839] from Claude Aimee This just in from Claude: Right on Barbara! Exchanges are fun, educational, a great motivator to try new things and work on topics one might not have tackled otherwise. I always learn when I participate in an exchange. And I don't mind wheter the participants are beginners or old pros. There is value in each one of the prints. And Michelle: I'm not dropping out of the Flora exchange! Claude Aimˇe ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V16 #1575 *****************************