Baren Digest              Monday, 6 November 2000      Volume 13 : Number 1206


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From: Vollmer/Yamaguchi <jy6@columbia.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:27:59 -0400
Subject: [Baren 11990] sharing cyberspace 

A call for sanity! Too bad Graham and Dave have their differences, but they
each have so much to offer, how about we rely on the nice coolness of
cyberspace to keep them at a useful distance!

I LOVE getting to know so many printmakers from all over the world, and I
LOVE getting quick advice on hanga 'issues' and materials from the experts.
In return I am happy to give advice and info when I am able.

The Bareners I've met are various, but unified in their dedication to
printmaking....it's the broadness of Baren that's great. Dave we thank you
for setting up a forum that is not just to promote your viewpoint, but a
platform for many printmakers to share.

And Kat, just keep sending out those slides, every artist worth his salt
has a BIG pile of those rejection letters, along with a small, but
increasing number of sucesses!

April Vollmer
174 Eldridge St, NYC 10002, 212-677-5691
http://www.aprilvollmer.com



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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 07:41:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11991] Re: missing messages and other stuff.... 

Julio wrote.....
>Graham, your repeated postings and "accidental" mailing of a private 
>post to the
>general list is quite transparent. Please stop, you fool no one with 
>your tactics.

For this I'm truly am sorry..... It is not "tactics" but a stupid 
mistake of not changing the address.....  We have probably all done 
it in error.

I felt this was important to state separately from my other posting 
on the subject.

Regards

Graham

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 07:47:13 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11992] Re: missing messages and other stuff.... 

Dear Bareners,

I wish to apologize for the further intrusion of Julio's e-mail
It should not have be sent on line as it does not further the purpose 
of this list server.

I would not respond here except there is a need to clear my 
reputation of insults and insinuations

This is the forth time in about two year Julio has flamed members.

I had politely asked for an apology from three persons off line.
I had politely thanked 6 members for their input and support on the debate.

>You had been made aware of the council's point of view on this ongoing problem
>on 10/29  via  a friendly and reconciliatory private post

If you are talking about the private post from Barbara Mason, a part 
quote below....

>I know you probably did not realise these little humorous messages were
>being taken in the wrong way by so many people and because I value your
>input and friendship, I wanted to email you my concern before this 
>went further.

I appreciated Barbara's input and left it at that.  I understand that 
without "body language" my homorous messages needed moderation.

>since bootcamp ended not all is well between you and Dave. Posts by 
>you and Marnie right afterwards confirm this.

We were terribly insulted by Dave's behavior regarding the workshop 
and his three week stay here. It was most appalling indeed.  We had 
hoped for an apology.

I will not comment further on this or your post below as I see no 
need to respond to your innuendos and insults and it is inappropriate 
on the server.

I would appreciate a simple apology from the 3 persons for the insults levied.

Graham



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From: "kate courchaine" <katecourchaine@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 16:23:37 GMT
Subject: [none]

Can we pleeeease let it drop and move on....

Kate C.


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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?dimitris=20grammatikopulos?= <aenaonartst@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 10:30:08 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 11994] ...just other stuff.... 

Dear Baren,
I certainly don't have any knowledge of incidents between members outside
the sphere of Baren.
I do know though a couple of things:
1. We do not avertise in Baren. Meaning that beyond the exchange of
addresses and commercial knowledge or know-how (sometimes) we leave the
person interested to choose what or who suits him.
2. We treat this small society as something common, although it is the
will and efforts of Mr. Bull that keeps it running. Therefore, one may not
take this jacket to the tailor to fix the sleeves to his armlength, in a
manner of speaking. Some 200+ members are owners of 400+ arms...some
tailor it would have to be...
3. Some of us maintain partially or full commercial sites/businesses. Yet,
there has been a silent agreement (YES,THERE IS) not to advertise or guide
anyone that way. Of course, eventual updates occur and it is normal to ask
for an opinion. But,...I would not be me if I started posting messages
concerning any of my teaching activities in June, from January...if you
get what I mean...
4. There has been an instruction from Mr. Bull to use the AF for private
and off-subject discussions...For this message I might get spanked
myself...
I could possibly continue.
Anyone, who disagrees and acts otherwise than according to these
agreements owes an apology to the community.
There is only one standard in Baren: effort to improve and sharing of
knowledge.
Anything else is not for me. In case the 'me' becomes an 'us' the owner
must take position and decide.
Regards,
Dimitris

P.S. Those who answered my question on educational sculpture models, THANK YOU!!!


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From: Artsmadis@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:51:39 EST
Subject: [Baren 11996] Print site 

Here is an excellent site by a print collector with very many prints.  Some 
woodcuts and wood engravings but mostly those other icky things--I think 
they're called etchings.

Darrell

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From: Artsmadis@aol.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:52:49 EST
Subject: [Baren 11997] Print site 

Sorry, forgot to add address: 
 
 http://www.dspace.dial.pipex.com/smarson/gallerylist.htm

 <A HREF="http://www.dspace.dial.pipex.com/smarson/gallerylist.htm">blah</A> 

Darrell

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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 14:11:51 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11998] Re: Apologies 

I have to agree with Graham and Dimitris on their well stated points about
intrusions to the list. There is no place on the forum for the barrage of
personal stuff that's transpired. For that and making Baren suffer thru another
bump, I apologize to the group and David Bull, the list owner. Somethings are
better kept offlist and that is where I will direct my discussion on this
matter. Last thing I would want would be for anyone of you to unsubscribe
because of this....then I would as guilty of the very actions I have spoken
against.

Thanks for your understanding on this delicate matter and fear not....you have
heard the last from me.

Julio



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From: Andrea Cuchetto (Dega)  <andreadega@ureach.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:19:39 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11999] Re: Apologies 

As mostly a lurker I just wanted to add how much I 
appreciate seeing conflict and its resolution via peaceful 
(albeit sometimes strained) communication. It's how I 
grow. I will attempt to incorporate such into my next piece.
best,
Andrea.
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/a/andreadegastudio
s/

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From: barebonesart <barebonesart@home.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:28:44 -0800
Subject: [Baren 12000] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1205 

In reply to Jerelee's comment about juried/judged competitions where she
asked:
 
> Do these shows really, really make you feel as if the
> jackel has won his prize?

The answer is: not if you win, in which case, you laugh all the way to the
bank
!
Sharri


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From: Jim Bryant <Jim.Bryant@enmu.edu>
Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 13:42:33 -0700
Subject: [Baren 12001] paper source? 

Anyone have a favorite paper source? (in the USA)

I was getting it from Dolphin in Indianapolis, but it seems they have 
increased their minimum order. I often use Dan Smith when i'm in a 
rush (it always seems that they are fast and get the paper here 
undamaged), but wondering what is out there better and cheaper.

jim-

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From: barebonesart <barebonesart@home.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 12:35:47 -0800
Subject: [Baren 12002] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1205 

Shirleen,

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.  Don't you have anything, just one piece,
sitting around that you can't understand why the rest of the world doesn't
appreciate it as much as you do??  The wonderful part of prints, relief
prints, if the discussion is limited to that, is that you can always alter,
combine with other media, not limited to other print media, and come up with
something even better, though the world may not be ready for that one yet,
either.

Sharri



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From: slinder@mediaone.net
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 15:09:59 -0600
Subject: [Baren 12003] Re: paper source? 

Jim, here are some suggestions for your list!

Graphic Ink and Chemical <http://www.graphicchemical.com/>
               
Aiko's Art Materials Import     Wonderful papers, ship quickly, 
3347 N Clark St                 -but don't miss a visit!
Chicago, IL                     (no website yet-catalogue avail.)
773-404-5600 

<http://twinrocker.com/pstocked.htm> Twinrocker-(They have great
tours if you are near Brookston, Indiana!)

<http://www.paperconnection.com/> The Paper Connection
International- I love their colored tissue for chine colle'. 
They carry wonderful Japanese Papers.  

Sharen

Jim Bryant wrote:

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From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 13:36:15 -0800
Subject: [Baren 12004] paper 

Jim,
Hiromi Papers has some nice stuff, they are at ? I can't find it, but
know someone on this list must have their site address.

or you might try http://www.artpaper.com/product.html

or the Japanese paper place http://www.japanesepaperplace.com/
good luck,
Barbara


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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 08:00:32 +0900
Subject: [Baren 12005] Recent 'discussions' ... 

In response to the rather large number of emails that members of this
group have sent to me in the past couple of days all saying effectively
the same thing - "Dave, you're the moderator of this group, why don't
you _do_ something about this stuff?", it seems that I must finally
speak out on this topic ...

During the past three years that this group has been in existence, I
have done most of my 'moderation' behind the scenes - many of you have
received private emails from me with my comments or suggestions on
various aspects of list behaviour. That has been my method, to always
criticize in private. As a result of this, it may have seemed to many of
you that there really wasn't any 'moderation' being done on this list.

In the case of this recent 'to-do', with the 'trouble' being directed
against me personally, I have felt unable to step in and respond (either
on line of off-line), as that would just have led to more flaming and
increased tensions.

But as this thing has now grown out of control, and is threatening to
destroy this whole neat thing that we have created over the three years,
I can no longer keep quiet.

A few bare facts: I went to Graham's workshop this year, and as you have
heard, he and I didn't really get along together. He thinks I behaved
badly, and I feel he did. We both misunderstood many things the other
person said and did. 50/50. No 'good guy' and no 'bad guy'. When I
returned home, I felt that I didn't really want to have much
communication personally with him any more, but hoped that none of the
trouble would affect this forum; I hoped that he and I could remain
members, and could continue to speak to people about matters related to
woodblock printmaking.

It didn't go that way, I'm sorry.

I have been thinking this week that once everybody 'had their say' this 
thing would sink back out of sight, but as that doesn't seem to be 
happening, I am faced with two choices ...

(1) Send in a forced unsubscribe message to the list server that
includes both our names, Graham's and mine.

(2) Send a message to the list server to switch the list over to
'moderated' mode (in which all messages are first directed to me for
'approval' for posting).

I don't much like either 'solution', but I'll try number two first ...

Thank you for your patience in this, and let me now ask you all
(criticizing in public, I'm sorry), to put this crap behind us and get
back to our normal situation of having _fun_ with this forum ...

Dave




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From: "Bea Gold" <bnj50@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:50:48 +0900
Subject: [Baren 12006] Re: paper source? charset="iso-8859-1" 

Try this one - http://hiromipaper.com/ I also use http://misterart.com/for
discount hosho and mulberry

Bea Gold
2206 Micheltorena Street
Los Angeles, CA 90039
(323) 660-0106
bnj50@earthlink.net
http//www.beagold.com/

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From: "Daniel L. Dew" <ddew0001@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:09:59 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12007] Re: paper source? 

Correct URL for mister art is

http://www.misterart.com/

dan dew

> From: "Bea Gold" <bnj50@earthlink.net>
 Re: paper source?

I also use http://misterart.com/for
> discount hosho and mulberry
 




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From: "C. L. Stevens" <clswdcut@intersurf.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 20:40:18 -0600
Subject: [Baren 12008] Re: sharing cyberspace 

I'm new to the group since Friday, and would like to introduce myself.  I am a
self-taught printmaker, having started on a little linocut 14 years ago, and
only computer literate for a year and a half, so please forgive me if I don't
do things in the proper way with regard to the computer.  I have feelings about
woodblocks like David Bull seems to have about woodblocks (I had a chance to go
to his website for a little while), although I have found these feelings from
my own way of doing things.  I have supported myself in varying ways so that I
can continue to carve and print.  I also love the natural world so passionately
that it generally is my subject.  I have two websites where some of my work can
be viewed:  www.natureartists.com under my name, Catherine Lee Stevens, and my
home page, www.bropps.com/gallery/stevens/index.htm.  About 4 years ago, I
started making special mosaic frames for some of my woodcut prints to
compliment them and to bring attention to them.  Because I have done a lot of
outdoor craft festivals here in the South,  I have spent a great deal of time
"teaching" about  woodcut prints to the general public and find there are a lot
of people who just don't know a lot about them.  But I always find that I learn
a lot from people in return.  I have resigned myself to being an ambassador of
goodwill for my craft and have developed a great deal of patience, but you
cannot know how thrilled I was Friday to find that there are some other people
"funny about woodcuts" like me.  I would like to become better in my own way
than I am at present.  And yes, I have a huge pile of rejections and a growing
folder of acceptances.  Thank you.  Sincerely, Catherine L. Stevens


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From: Shireen Holman <shireenh@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 21:36:37 -0500
Subject: [Baren 12009] Re: paper 

At 01:36 PM 11/5/00 -0800, Barbara wrote:
>Jim,
>Hiromi Papers has some nice stuff, they are at ? I can't find it, but
>know someone on this list must have their site address.

They have a website at www.hiromipaper.com



***********************************************
Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist
email: shireenh@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~shireenh/
***********************************************



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From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 19:12:59 -0700
Subject: [Baren 12011] Re: paper source? 

Also, check out the list of suppliers on http://www.woodblock.com 
McClain's is a good one too, as is http://www.artpaper.com.

Let us know if you find more. I'm always on the lookout for good paper
at good prices that is delivered quickly!

Wanda


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End of Baren Digest V13 #1206
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