Baren Digest              Friday, 3 November 2000      Volume 13 : Number 1202


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: GWohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:49:34 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11933] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1201 

Everyone who has responded to Graham's "devil's advocate" message has
brought out all the best points of why we exhibit our works as a group. 
I was happy to learn from Maria how many groups are out there doing the
thing Graham suggests so he can involve himself on a higher level if he
chooses.  That makes me feel better for Graham.  And I am so very happy
to be a Baren member and learning.  The publicly academic side of art
has always (for me) taken something away from the joy of it.  I think
some of you would be interested in an Exhibit that comes every two years
in Cleveland.  It's called "The People's Art Show" and no one is turned
down.  What is so amazing is how many high quality pieces are in this
show.  The work is hung from ceiling to floor and is the most exciting
thing to walk into and among.  The opening is crowded and controversial
and full of the spirit of art in a way you never see in juried shows.

Graham is a good teacher.  I think it would be interesting to have him
critique our works in the exchanges.

Gayle

------------------------------

From: "jerelee" <jerelee@main.nc.us>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 09:26:49 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11934] mothering and art 

Dear Wanda,=20
Thanks for your support. As a mother of a 3 yr old I feel  worn out =
(especially at 46 yrs old). Anyway I've promised myself that this is my =
year to create art no matter how difficult the circumstances. This =
democratic forum, I hope will prove to be uplifting and stimulating and =
so far it has not proved me wrong. Jerelee
------------------------------

From: d bartl <dob38@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:10:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 11935] Re: Exhibition standards 

hi,
I am new to this forum but I have to agree with
Graham.
I do not agree on a first come first basis to these
opportunities as I personally do not have the time
each day to sit down and read  each of the posts.  
Why is there not a special announcement of an
opportunity and a post end date so that all of us
could have the chance to enter these special shows.
Deb
- --- Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com> wrote:

------------------------------

From: "Jeanne Norman Chase" <studiojnc@prodigy.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 10:27:18 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11936] Rules and Regulations charset="iso-8859-1" 

I have to jump in here and tell you "What Baren Means To Me".

Graham, I am a professional painter and graphic artist, (drawing).
 I have done very well for the past 20 years or so.

 When I came upon the Baren web site, it intriqued me so much that I wanted
to try my  hand at woodblock printmaking.
So I gave up a very successful career as a painter and tried my first
woodblock.
 And I entered my first woodblock print  in one of the first Baren
exchanges.
 What a thrill it was to be a part of this wonderful diverse group.

 It made me want to become a printmaker.
 I now have a press , am leaning to etch, to engrave and hopefully do better
woodblock prints.
 It has opened up a whole new world for me.
 When I receive my exchange portfolios, it is a magic time.
The prints from first timers, and the many professionals are such a learning
experience.

I hope that some of the newer Baren people do not become intimidated by
Grahams post.

 I feel that David has done such a service to us all and I especially want
to thank him for not imposing strict rules and regulations on us all.
 Let us be free to express ourselves .and explore this wonderful world of
woodblock printmaking without worrying about high standards, but just by
doing the best that we can .

Jeanne N.


------------------------------

From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer@iinet.net.au>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 00 23:58:48 -0000
Subject: [Baren 11937] Re: Exchange prints "Baren Digest" <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Bareners,
The Baren Forum is a formidible learning experience with not one teacher 
but nearly 200 teachers.

I have been an almost isolated Baren member with limited experiences in 
woodblock printmaking and when I joined these Exchanges it was to learn 
from first hand, examples of work both in oil and water based inks, to 
study them, to refer to the enclopedia and ask questions and join in 
discussions on different phases of woodblock printing...I am still 
learning....I am still printing...I have friends both far and wide who 
are willing to support me in my new medium...I have met wonderful 
enthusiastic printmakers in my own vast country who I have in turn 
invited to my own part of the country and next year will travel overseas 
in search of more technical skills from more experienced 
printmakers...Baren is a learning forum....at times members do have their 
own opinions which should be "thrown into the ring"...but they should not 
be always taken negatively or personally...anyone is entitled to have an 
opinion....learn from what is said...

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Even beginners show a fresh naivity, or vitality, that is often lacking 
in the work of a hard core "professional".

There are also very "bad" exhibitions that have been "hung" in all 
media...with subject matter and techniques that (1) I wouldn't have even 
been "game" to produce let alone hang on any wall and (2) I would have 
"binned" if they were mine or (3) I would or wouldn't tell anyone else to 
or not to visit!

Surely we try to work to the best of our ability whatever our grade or 
experience or technical expertise and these exchange pieces are our 
"textbooks" for us to decide to what level of expertise we wish to 
aspire, and to learn from difficulties that others have faced eg. what 
papers are being used and what is best for oil or water and what didn't 
work, how much ink we need to use, which overlaying colours give more 
colour variations and vibrance, what wood gives the sharpest lines, what 
is good registration,  would thick or thinner lines have looked better on 
my print, or would more expressive or energetic cutting marks have given 
my design more 'energy" or "life"?  How could I have improved my own 
work? .......... Be more critical of your own work, but above all keep 
designing and keep cutting and printing.

Good night to my friends in Baren,
Jan





------------------------------

From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer@iinet.net.au>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 00 23:58:48 -0000
Subject: [Baren 11938] Re: Exchange prints "Baren Digest" <baren@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Bareners,
The Baren Forum is a formidible learning experience with not one teacher 
but nearly 200 teachers.

I have been an almost isolated Baren member with limited experiences in 
woodblock printmaking and when I joined these Exchanges it was to learn 
from first hand, examples of work both in oil and water based inks, to 
study them, to refer to the enclopedia and ask questions and join in 
discussions on different phases of woodblock printing...I am still 
learning....I am still printing...I have friends both far and wide who 
are willing to support me in my new medium...I have met wonderful 
enthusiastic printmakers in my own vast country who I have in turn 
invited to my own part of the country and next year will travel overseas 
in search of more technical skills from more experienced 
printmakers...Baren is a learning forum....at times members do have their 
own opinions which should be "thrown into the ring"...but they should not 
be always taken negatively or personally...anyone is entitled to have an 
opinion....learn from what is said...

Everyone has to start somewhere.

Even beginners show a fresh naivity, or vitality, that is often lacking 
in the work of a hard core "professional".

There are also very "bad" exhibitions that have been "hung" in all 
media...with subject matter and techniques that (1) I wouldn't have even 
been "game" to produce let alone hang on any wall and (2) I would have 
"binned" if they were mine or (3) I would or wouldn't tell anyone else to 
or not to visit!

Surely we try to work to the best of our ability whatever our grade or 
experience or technical expertise and these exchange pieces are our 
"textbooks" for us to decide to what level of expertise we wish to 
aspire, and to learn from difficulties that others have faced eg. what 
papers are being used and what is best for oil or water and what didn't 
work, how much ink we need to use, which overlaying colours give more 
colour variations and vibrance, what wood gives the sharpest lines, what 
is good registration,  would thick or thinner lines have looked better on 
my print, or would more expressive or energetic cutting marks have given 
my design more 'energy" or "life"?  How could I have improved my own 
work? .......... Be more critical of your own work, but above all keep 
designing and keep cutting and printing.

Good night to my friends in Baren,
Jan





------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:41:49 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11939] Re: Exhibition standards 

Dear Baren,
RE: Critiques on the exchanges on BAREN;

I check mine and have added comments for the exchanges (#5 & #6), but have
never seen them show up.
For my part, I praise the pieces I like and or enjoy and or learn from, and
I don't comment on the other ones.
I keep the ones I like and discrad the trash.  I like the open forum format,
I like the variety, but most of all I LEARN.
Keep it the way it is.
I, for one, am not going to Isreal and have no way of knowing if my print is
shown or not, but it is certainly the curators perogative to discard and not
display any piece they "feel" is not "up - to - par".
I agree with the others who stated that the best way to "raise the standard"
is to JOIN the exchanges, not sit on the sidelines and criticize them.

Once again, IMHO.

dan dew



------------------------------

From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:41:05 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11940] Re:   Baren Digest V13 #1201 charset="iso-8859-1" 

Gayle,

I had experience with an exhibition in a girl's school (elementary) in San
Francisco,  in which wall space had been donated to an alumna to show her
own work.  She had been elected to the board of the California Society of
Printmakers and, in her enthusiasm for the job, offered that space for a CSP
show.  I remember this because I had just volunteered to be exhibitions
chair, of this organization which held to a policy of no censorship of
images.  At the first meeting at which I was the exhibitions chair, someone
asked me to take notes, because a secretary was not needed.  They--and
I--failed to tell the woman about the no censorship policy.  The beautiful
show was hung on the walls high over the children's eye level.  One print
was taken down for a wedding and the artist complained.  I considered the
whole board was responsible for that fiasco because (1) they knew I had no
exhibition experience when they elected me and (2) I was too busy taking
minutes to advise the new board member of the no-censorship policy.  Anyway,
the artist received a lot of space in the journal as a result of that
incident, and well-deserved, because her prints are very dramatic and her
paintings are also excellent.

No censorship is a general CSP policy, but it is not always adhered to.  I
think the lesson here is that when someone donates space for your work, it
is not a carte blanche to put anything you want on the walls.  (Did I use
the correct French word?)

Some people are hobbled by a fundamentalist belief in no graven images--no
likenesses.  This can create a severe communication disability.  However, we
all admire abstract art, in which we can read almost anything, and our
interpretation of it tends to be about our own experience.

Jean Eger-Womack


------------------------------

From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:13:08 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11941] Re: deadlines for exchanges charset="iso-8859-1" 

Welcome to the forum new members!
Good to see how a lively discussion brings out fresh ideas. Some very good
points have come up.

One is that of critiques of the prints. There is indeed a mechanism for
critiquing the existing prints, perhaps we could all get involved in this a
bit more. When in school I learned quite a bit from my fellow students and
the fact is, someone else always sees something that escaped our own eyes.

The other point that I would like to bring up is that of participation,
which I believe to be the key to getting the most out of the forum and all
the programs. It is very exciting to be involved in these exchanges, the
exhibits are a wonderful "side effect" that was unexpected and that sprung
out of member involvement. I think actively participating will change the
outlook of some. Do contribute with questions and knowledge and whatever it
is you have to offer (even a healthy dose of overboiling Latin spunk is
allowed once in a while). We want more of whatever it is you want to bring
to the forum.

Deb wrote:

> I do not agree on a first come first basis to these
> opportunities as I personally do not have the time
> each day to sit down and read  each of the posts.
> Why is there not a special announcement of an
> opportunity and a post end date so that all of us
> could have the chance to enter these special shows.
> Deb

You don't have to follow the discussions, although first and foremost, this
is a forum for exchanging ideas where most of us have learned gobs about
woodblock, woodcut and printmaking in general. The mechanism for entering
exchanges was revised exactly because participants don't have time to read
all the posts every day (other than those of us who have no real life
outside of woodcuts).
Go anytime to:
http://barenforum.org/exchange/index.html and read all about it.
The exchanges are now scheduled on a quarterly basis so we know exactly when
the next exchange sign-up deadline will come up and can plan accordingly.
Additionally there is a full 7 days to sign up if you did not enter the
previous exchange in which sign up proceeds very calmly and there are plenty
of spots for everyone that wants to participate.
Next exchange is #9 (can you believe it!) and early sing-up begins January
1st-7th. The three-month 'work' period will begin February 1, and the
deadline will thus be May 1st.
There is always at least one announcement from David about a week prior to
that. Plan ahead everyone!

Health to all,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango, Printmaker
Las Vegas  Nevada  USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><>


------------------------------

From: LEAFRUTH@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 11:29:16 EST
Subject: [Baren 11942] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1201 

Maria, as usual you don't pull punches.  I find that extremely refreshing.  
This site is an open free for all and those who don't wish to be associated 
with it are free to leave.  Ruth

http://www.ruthleaf.com

------------------------------

From: "Jean Eger" <jeaneger@LanMinds.Com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 08:37:24 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11943] Re:   Baren Digest V13 #1201 charset="iso-8859-1" 

Dear Bareners,
Check out this web site for image display--

http://www.xippix.com/HTML/ProdSolutions/index.htm

Jean Eger-Womack
http://users.lanminds.com/~jeaneger


------------------------------

From: Wanda <robertson@canby.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:49:30 -0700
Subject: [Baren 11944] Re: mothering and art 

Good for you! I think doing art keeps you sane in the midst of
crazy-making stuff. And 3 year olds are good at crazy-making stuff! :-)

Wanda

------------------------------

From: James G Mundie <jimandkatemundie@juno.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:34:36 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11945] "Standards" versus sincerity 

Graham Scholes wrote:

> My concern is that the images by baroners are chosen on a "first come 
> first served basis" in the exchange projects.  There is not a 
> standard. The submissions are of course, the best that the 
> individuals can muster, but is this a standard?  What is there to 
> insure that the best of the best is created and exhibited?


Graham,

I have been accepted into many juried exhibitions.  Just received an
acceptance letter for the next Boston Printmakers exhibition, in fact. 
However, just as when one is rejected from such a thing, it's best to
take neither the acceptance nor rejection personally.  Who is to say why
certain jurors make the selections they do?  No one -- no matter what
their intentions -- can be entirely objective in their criteria.  Can you
honestly say that you have never been to an exhibition and come across
one or more pieces (or all of them) that were selected by a juror and
thought to yourself, "What a piece of junk!"?

However, these recent exhibitions of [Baren] works have their genesis in
a much more honorable idea than simply showcasing what one juror thinks
is the creme-de-la-creme of new printmaking.  These exhibitions in
Illinois, Ohio, Israel, Uganda, etc., -- organized by fellow members of
[Baren]-- are honest expressions of joy by those that wish to share their
love of woodblock printing and the wonderful experience provided by
membership in this forum.  The fact that members with years of experience
and talent exhibit alongside rank amateurs is exactly the point, which
was exactly what I had in mind when I suggested we start doing these
exchanges.  Share the wealth... that's the point.

But, Graham, if that does not satisfy your criteria, allow me to argue
this point:  The exchanges _are_ juried, but not by an oligarch
exercising his or her whim.  The jury is each and every member with the
desire to participate, the courage to complete a print and share it, and
the gumption to see that through.  Sure, some will fall victim to the
limits of time and numbers; but the ones who really don't make the cut --
as it were -- are those feel no need to complete an obligation, or simply
don't care to join in at all.   

Will every print that makes it into an exchange be a masterpiece?  No. 
In fact, I can guarantee that many of the least successful prints will
come from the hands of our "better" printmakers.

So, while we agree that not every print in an exchange will be excellent,
that hardly demeans the exercise.  Why?  Because each and every print
reflects what [Baren] is all about.  And that, my friend, is why we do
it.

Mise le meas,
James Mundie
Philadelphia U.S.A. 

------------------------------

From: heather nichols <pinefeather@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 12:00:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 11946] what is art anyways 

I would name myself as quite a novice printmaker,
being quite young and only discovering my passion 5 or
so years ago. I look back at my first print I produced
and then at the most recent. The growth is tremendous.
I even included this piece in a recent show I did in
April. I didn't hesitate when I was assembling my
pieces for the show. I wanted to show my progress. I
have also participated in several exchanges where the
level of experience varied. I think instead of putting
down the inexperience, we can all learn from each
others experience instead of wanting to toss the
beginners aside. As I said - I learn from my first
print - and now years later I know that I can learn
from others first prints. We should celebrate the
accomplishment of the print process and I think as we
all gain experience in the art of printmaking. I am
sure we all do still marvel when we pull that print
and witness the art that we have produced. Even though
I am a fairly new baren member I am excited for the
exchange and to see the various woob block techniques.
I know it is beyond cut and print, that is just part
of the great process. :)

Heather

------------------------------

From: "Bea Gold" <bnj50@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 13:01:30 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11947] Re: what is art anyways charset="iso-8859-1" 

I am enjoying the spice of this discussion.  Thank you Graham for
stimulating it.
I do love cutting and printing woodblocks!  I do love getting all the very
different and unique prints in the exchanges.  I love the work of our very
young and new printers who demonstrate an energy that is exciting and
wonderful.
Graham - since you actually critiqued one of my prints and said you liked
it - does that mean I'd be allowed in to one of your auspicious exhibits?
Dan - "I keep the ones I like and discrad the trash."  can I have those
exchange prints that you dump, please?  I'll send postage.  As the saying
goes (maybe) - one person's trash is another  person's treasure.
Bea Gold
2206 Micheltorena Street
Los Angeles, CA 90039
(323) 660-0106
bnj50@earthlink.net
http://www.beagold.com/

------------------------------

From: Daniel Dew <ddew@tampabay.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 16:09:36 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11948] Puttin Out The Trash 

You know, even though I said I throw out the "trash", I have never thrown
out a Baren exchange print?
I've thrown out prints from other exchanges, but not a Baren one.  I have
even offered trades to people in exchanges I couldn't get into.  Some say
yes, some say no.
Oh well, thought I should clarify: I HAVE NEVER THROWN OUT A BAREN EXCHANGE
PRINT! I haven't found one that yucky yet.

dan dew



------------------------------

From: barbara patera <b.patera@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 100 13:15:19 Pacific Daylight Time
Subject: [Baren 11949] exhibition standards 

 Know I'm in danger of e-mailing this subject to death but.....Having noticed that  jurors seldom  have exactly  
the same views on what is good and what isn't .... have come to the conclusion that most juried shows are as 
much about the juror as the art.   

Whether this is the case or not,we have a very precious venue here.  One where anyone who is interested in 
woodcut/relief printing can exhibit their works.We can see and explore prints from all over the world...see not 
only a variety of art but view prints that reflect different cultures.

For those who want to be included in juried show there is certainly no lack of opportunity..... but why try to 
change something that is special into the ordinary.

Barbara P.
 

------------------------------

From: Studio Dalwood <severn@acay.com.au>
Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 21:11:55 +1100
Subject: [Baren 11951] Exhibition standards  

Sometimes beiong on digest means you have to come in part
way through an interesting thread, like this one.

Bravo Graham for bringing it up, you devil you! 

Since we Aussies ahve had a chance to meet in the flesh we
have also had opportunities to compare exchange folios too.
Interesting stuff. 
THe range of abilities and artistic merit is considerable as
you say. And some folios are better than others. I dont know
if it was because it was open to all mediums or just luck
but the SAcred Tree folio (in my opinion) seems to have the
greatest number of high quality prints out of the folio's
I've seen so far. (others have commented to me similarly
privately, I might add) I was very pleasently surprised.

As Dave says the exchanges serve a particular function and
are not really about exhibting - that's just a unexpected
and serendipitous developemnt. So if we want to talk about
setting exhibition standards and having juried shows I think
this is a completely different topic. Having problems with
words today - what I mean is that there's nothing stopping
you or others from organising exhibitions that showcase 'the
best of' as a new activity.

This was a big issue with me in organising the Sydney show -
how do you maintain credibility for the medium if you have
to include what would normally be left out as sub-standard
work. As it happened it wasnt an issue in this case as the
standards were so good. I ended up looking at it from two
views.
1. the show that says this is about the medium and learning
etc etc - everything Dave said.
2. The 'curated' show that selects the best of.

My view is that we show a complete exchange in the first
category.
For the second category, I have long term plans to show a
pick of the best from all the exchanges I own one day - my
professional opinion as to quality will apply, as for any
curator.

Maria said
"The key difference between [Baren] and the umpteen
printmaking
societies "out there" is, of course, the fact that we are
all inclusive."

Dont forget Print AUstralia is all inclusive too, only we
are more so because we dont restrict it to just woodblock!

Maria said
"There are a gazillion printmaking societies and groups,
some of them
headed by [Baren] lurkers and members (SGC, FL Printmakers,
Maryland
Printmakers, California Printmakers, LAPS, NPC, WEN,
Stonemetal, did I forget
any?)."

Yep. I think you missed all the ones that are not in America
- - just a little dig here from "the rest of the world" *grin*
we do exist you know?

Dimitris said
"Personally, although I came to unsubscribing a few times
during the
past 13 months, I reconsidered because after all I was
wrong. Either I
reacted to emotionally on certain matters or I let myself
get hurt
emotionally onothers. Anyway, I'm still here."

Glad you are Dimitris, you make valuable contributions and I
agree with much of this particular post.

Gerald said
"But the whole group could seriously benefit from a move
towards honest open constructive criticism instead of the
usual Pollyanna "everything anyone does in woodcut is
wonderful" approach. Constructive criticism is what helps us
to learn.'

YES YES YES Problem of course is the range of backgrounds -
where do you start imparting the benefits of years fo
experience and knowledge to a beginner - with patience of
course and repetition. COntent, content, content - you've
heard it from me before - is just as important as technique
but almost never discussed on this forum. 
We also have huge barriers to overcome in being
geographically and culturally challenged when it comes to
'the rest of the world'. I have learned an awful lot about
americans over the net - a lot of it not nice - I've been
misunderstood, patronised and told I live in a third world
country - often by people who vaguely know where Oz it and
are disinterested in finding out any more. On the other hand
I've made some friends and met some good people too. *shrug*
so its all swings and roundabouts I guess.

I have alot of criticisms about some people's work - but
would be terrified to express them publically when even my
praise has a tendency to get twisted around. In general some
of you need to learn how to draw, to learn the difference
between 'bad' amateur art and  'good' contemporary art - now
there's some inflammatory terms for you - how to edition and
how to read your mail with comprehension. *phew* Dont hit me
- - I'm moving house in the morning and somewhat stressed -
but you get my point - its called honesty and I dont see why
anyone should be attacked for expressing an honest opinion.

Just a teaser Graham - we went to Point Perpendicular a few
weeks ago and I photographed the lighthouse for you, will
send in due course. While I was at it I explained what i was
doing and why to my husband and then we had an interesting
discussion about light houses being huge throbbing erections
- - phallic symbolism and all that - so why that particular
subject? - see I can be a devil too *grin

How am I going to be able to keep up with this thread when
the PC is about to be dissassembled? Dammit! 

See you in a few days, look forward to seeing the rest of
the thread.

Josephine

------------------------------

End of Baren Digest V13 #1202
*****************************