Baren Digest             Thursday, 2 November 2000     Volume 13 : Number 1201


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From: GWohlken <blueman@pantek.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 10:42:21 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11920] Re: Baren Digest V13 #1200 

Aarye, thank you and all those who helped bring the Fourth International
Baren Exhibit into fruition.  The photos show this to be a lovely spot
on the Earth.  I feel so lucky to be included in this exhibit!

* * *
Julio, I had written to Baren at the beginning of October when at that
time I was told by Kent State University that I would not be able to put
the Baren pieces up until November (I'm going over there tomorrow to do
that for the room will be free for me to work in it and November is
indeed here).  I was given the gallery in October for my own stuff, but
the school needed that showcase window (for lights for an upcoming play
which is now over) where the Baren pieces were going, but they never
told me about it until the day I went over to set up both exhibits.  I
was disappointed because I was all geared up to spend a couple days
setting up both my stuff and Baren's.    But, now we do have our Baren
Exhibit at Kent to look forward to, starting tomorrow (Thursday).  I
will have Shane, my son, take digital pictures of it when I get it put
up.  Meanwhile, I'll be taking my own stuff down.  It wasn't a good
place to show mine because they often use the gallery as a classroom,
and the last time I looked there was a portable blackboard set up in
front of several of my prints.  However, the Baren prints will be on
full display and will be visible at all times to the students and staff
who must walk always through the central lobby because it leads to the classrooms.

The photo on Show and Tell right now is me receiving with my blue ribbon
for First Prize at the Annual Burton Library Art Show which was a juried
show.  This show was on at the same time as the Kent/Geauga Gallery
exhibit, so I can see why you would be confused that they might be from
the same show.  It was a big art month for me.  Anyway, be watching for
another photo or two on Show and Tell soon.  

Gayle

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From: Graham Scholes <gscholes@home.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:53:18 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11921] Exhibition standards 

>Aarye, thank you and all those who helped bring the Fourth International
>Baren Exhibit into fruition.

I have been wondering about these exhibitions in the past and now 
there are more to come.

My concern is that the images by baroners are chosen on a "first come 
first served basis" in the exchange projects.  There is not a 
standard. The submissions are of course, the best that the 
individuals can muster, but is this a standard?  What is there to 
insure that the best of the best is created and exhibited?

As an organized group we have been using technique and method of 
creating a woodblock print as the carrot for self improvement. Should 
we not be dangling the carrot to go beyond just  "cut and print"?

I know this will alienate some, but it must be stated.
I have looked at the work done in the exchanges and I don't see an 
over all high standard. I have noted the e-mails regarding the 
"patting on the back" about the improvement.   I submit that the 
improvement is not collectively what I would quantify as pat on the 
back.  There is a factor, an exhibition is only as good as the 
weakest piece.  hummmmm

The devil's advocate

Graham


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From: baren_member@barenforum.org (Margaret M. Szvetecz)
Date: 1 Nov 2000 18:31:01 -0000
Subject: [Baren 11922] curating 

Message posted by: Margaret M. Szvetecz

In response to Graham's post--I don't find what you said 
particularly alienating, Graham, but I would add the 
following.

Anyone with the necessary resources can choose to curate an 
art exhibition.  It is the within the purview of the curator 
to select the works to be included in the exhibit.  If 
certain baren members choose to curate exhibits in 
which all the works in specific baren exchanges are 
included, that is certainly within the scope of legitimate 
curatorship, as I see it.  If someone else (maybe you, 
Graham) chooses to curate a show using other criteria for 
inclusion, well that would also be a legimate act of 
curatorship. 

There are many museums, galleries, and alternate 
spaces--with diverse exhibitions. I'm always happy to see 
the variety and hope more artists become involved in 
curating and promoting exhibits.



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From: "Maria Arango" <maria@mariarango.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:05:56 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11923] Re: Exhibition standards charset="iso-8859-1" 

> My concern is that the images by baroners are chosen on a "first come
> first served basis" in the exchange projects.  There is not a
> standard. The submissions are of course, the best that the
> individuals can muster, but is this a standard?  What is there to
> insure that the best of the best is created and exhibited?

The key difference between [Baren] and the umpteen printmaking societies
"out there" is, of course, the fact that we are all inclusive. If anyone is
concerned about the quality of the prints in an exchange or in an exhibition
it is their prerogative not to participate in exchanges, as you have chosen,
and not to exhibit. We are an open choice group, a wonderful thing.
If anyone is concerned about being seen in the company of the children of a
lesser God, then I direct them to the unsubscribe page.
There are a gazillion printmaking societies and groups, some of them headed
by [Baren] lurkers and members (SGC, FL Printmakers, Maryland Printmakers,
California Printmakers, LAPS, NPC, WEN, Stonemetal, did I forget any?). Some
of them have juried competitions and exhibitions that, in the eyes of the
Gods of Printmaking, will be undoubtedly of better qua--geez, I just can't
seem to say that q-word. Any one of those have the standards in place to
assure that only La Creme de La Creme gets out into public view. That is
fine and great and we need those societies to do that.
[Baren] is different, more like those open league soccer teams where
everyone plays and winning and losing and who is number one take a seat in
the bleachers. Anyone can sign up, there are no fees to play in the forum
(although that bar tab is getting up there), there are no fees to exchange
prints with other printmakers except return postage. The cost of exhibiting
is little and, in this last exhibition, was zero$ thanks to the efforts of
Arye, member extraordinaire, who obtained sponsorship. Our lesser prints are
being seen all over the world in the company of each other, and that is
exactly where I want to be: in the company of other people who like my
company (extend the analogy to our art as well).
Just like in those soccer games, I don't really care whether a carefully
placed cross over the goal is completely missed by an inexperienced player.
By the same token, I hope that when I miss the ball completely, I don't get
benched. Some of us are out here to have fun. Some of us are having a blast
and collecting an astounding number and variety of prints from ALL OVER THE
WORLD. That is the purpose of the exchange program of [Baren]. We love
printmaking, we love making those little pieces of paper and sending them to
each other. [Baren] never needs to be anything else to me or to many other
members. WEN is much like that as well, incidentally, a bunch of folk who
enjoy making prints and sharing them with each other.
But since you are so concerned, why don't you volunteer to hold a "call for
entries" in the standard way. Request slides, properly labeled, set an entry
fee, demand a SASE, make up a bunch of other absolutely necessary rules and
regulations, then once the 300 entries come, go over all the slides, choose
the winners and there you have it. Shouldn't take much of your time. Oh
yeah, forgot, then coordinate the resulting exchange, organize an exhibition
and there you go! Quality better now?

> I have looked at the work done in the exchanges and I don't see an
> over all high standard. I have noted the e-mails regarding the
> "patting on the back" about the improvement.   I submit that the
> improvement is not collectively what I would quantify as pat on the
> back.  There is a factor, an exhibition is only as good as the
> weakest piece.  hummmmm

Well golly gee wiz, master Graham, aren't we glad you aren't in charge of
curating or we'd be looking at--what? just your prints? Oh wait, you haven't
been participating, have you? Then I pose the question to you, why the heck
do _you_ care about standards of exhibition? We don't need devil's advocates
or armchair critics, we need people who are willing to do more than talk,
who put the nose to the grindstone and work with us to make this an
all-inclusive wonderful experience in printmaking for as many printmakers as
want to participate.

Health to ALL, to absolutely EVERYONE out there,
Maria

<><><><><><><><><><><><>
Maria Arango, Printmaker
Las Vegas  Nevada  USA
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
maria@mariarango.com
<><><><><><><><><><><><>


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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 08:41:21 +0900
Subject: [Baren 11924] Re: Exhibition standards <200011011537.AAA16562@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <200011011748.CAA46798@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Graham wrote (as a devil's advocate):
> I know this will alienate some, but it must be stated.
> I have looked at the work done in the exchanges and I don't see an
> overall high standard. 

... and Dave will reply ... as an advocate for the 'other' side  :-)
(This might get a little long; excuse me if it does.)


I think the main question to be asked Graham, is not 

"Are we putting on world-class exhibitions?", but rather 

"What is [Baren] for?"

You are correct when you point out that the work on display in our
exchange folios and exhibitions is not all of the same standard. But
where you see this as a negative point, I see it as something
_positive_; it is an open and honest expression of the true nature of
[Baren] - a group of people of diverse levels of experience who band
together out of our love for this art/craft, and out of our desire to
share it with others.

Can it really be possible though, to have a 'unified' exhibition which
contains prints by people with decades of experience hanging on the wall
side-by-side with somebody's 'first' print?  Here, the answer is most
definitely _yes_!  Woodblock printmaking is like that - the medium is so
raw and open that the creator's imagery is visible and clear even in the
most rudimentary attempts.  If [Baren] was a group of oil painters, I
think our exhibitions would be disasters - we all know what a first
attempt at an oil painting looks like - but woodblock printmaking is
such an open and honest medium, that even a child's work contains
readily visible vital expression.

I don't in any way mean to denigrate your desire to have the best
possible work produced and put on show. And I am most definitely not one
of those people who will extravagantly praise 'all the kids in the
class' evenly because I think we are 'all the same' ...  If I myself
were hanging a [Baren] show in the side room of the gallery space at one
of my Tokyo exhibitions, I would select those prints that I thought best
expressed woodblock printmaking as _I_ want to see it done.  Margaret's
point about 'the purview of the curator to select the works to be
included in the exhibit' is a very valuable one I think.

I'd better not ramble on too long here, because these are very deep and
complicated points that can certainly be discussed at great length. Let
me try and recap my viewpoint:

- - the main purpose of [Baren] is to provide a place for woodblock
printmakers from around the world to 'share the experience'.

- - we maintain no 'entry standard', and people of whatever level of skill
and experience are encouraged to participate.

- - exchange folios and exhibitions will openly and honestly reflect that
diversity.

- - it is hoped (and indeed it is happening) that individuals will find
the experience of being a [Baren] member to be one that results in an
improvement of their skills, and a broadening of their outlook.

- - our public efforts (web site and exhibitions) will attract and
encourage more people to try woodblock printmaking. 

My image of an 'ideal' [Baren] exhibition? A local viewer walks into 
the show and browses his way along the line of prints. He looks at
one by an experienced member "Wow, that's incredible!".  A moment later
he is standing before a somewhat 'simpler' print "Hey, _I_ can do that!"
...  Later that evening he accesses our website ...    

Need I say more?

Thanks for bringing up this interesting topic Graham.  Other opinions,
anyone?

Dave


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From: "pwalls1234" <pwalls1234@i-55.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 18:19:51 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11925] Re: Exhibition standards charset="iso-8859-1" 

Maria,

Thanks for responding to Mr. Graham.  I agree and think you just about
covered all that needed to be covered.

I joined Baren because I find the e-talk interesting and love seeing ALL
types of prints from people of many different backgrounds.  Like you said,
there are plenty of competitive venues for those who wish to participate in
such.  I think certain Grahams in this group should submit their slides to
such.  If anyone needs lists of such shows they are easy to find via the
internet and I have a fairly large list I give to my students.

cheers,
pete
baton rouge


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From: B Mason <bemason@concentric.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:34:46 -0800
Subject: [Baren 11926] curating 

Maria,
You are one strongly opinionated Spaniard. In this case I agree with
you. I am not a very good block printer, but I am a good printmaker. I
started doing block prints just so I could do the exchanges and it is so
much fun. I love getting prints from 29 other people from all over the
world. The added bonus that they are getting exhibited is just too good.
This list is made up of 220+ great people, some who are only hovering in
the background but nevertheless are interested in what is going on. It truly has enriched my life, I have learned hanga. Well, sort of. Even
with professional instruction from both Graham and Dave I know I have a
loooong way to go. But I am having a lot of fun and am now doing some
lino block. I would never have done any block printing if it were not
for this list. I think the variety of ability adds to the fun of it, I
have seen all the prints because of the archives and I can tell you that
the quality is improving from every quarter. It is just like anything
else, the more you do the better you get and we are doing more so we are
getting better. I also think as the work is exhibited printmakers who
might have done a quick print for an exchange are now doing a little
nicer work for the exchanges. So I think the quality will take care of
itself. We are a great group and should applaud our strengths and not
worry about the quality, it can't help but get better.
Best to all,
Cut and print!!!
Barbara

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From: Greg Carter <artfool@bulloch.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:00:44 -0500
Subject: [Baren 11927] Re: Exhibition standards <200011011537.AAA16562@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <200011011748.CAA46798@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

I will join in with the agreement with Dave and Maria comments but want to
disagree with one thing Dave said.

>Can it really be possible though, to have a 'unified' exhibition which
>contains prints by people with decades of experience hanging on the wall
>side-by-side with somebody's 'first' print?  Here, the answer is most
>definitely _yes_!  Woodblock printmaking is like that - the medium is so
>raw and open that the creator's imagery is visible and clear even in the
>most rudimentary attempts.  If [Baren] was a group of oil painters, I
>think our exhibitions would be disasters - we all know what a first
>attempt at an oil painting looks like - but woodblock printmaking is
>such an open and honest medium, that even a child's work contains
>readily visible vital expression.

I do not know if this comes from the fact that I am also a painter, but I
do not think there is a difference between  first prints and first
paintings .  I happen to find woodblock printing difficult to get into
because the wood tends to push everybody to make the same kind of marks in
the biggining in the same way your first oil paintings usually blend
together in a muddy mess.  I am not saying I do not want see works from
beggining printers, I think that the process of printmaking does make us
more interested in the transformation of beggining prints verses painting.


I must thank Graham for playing devils advocate because it is good to focus
on who we are as a group and what is our purpose and I think he has
certantly done this.

Greg




------------------------------

From: "jerelee" <jerelee@main.nc.us>
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:49:39 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11928] new girl on the block 

Thank you so much for this incredible web site. As a novice woodblock =
print maker, tired toddler chaser, fantastic chef, worn out educator and =
connoisseur of good visuals I have enjoyed all the vebal information =
revealed here in addition to the wonderful VISUALS from the pros and =
non-pros. Thank god for a non-elitism collabration among hands of light. =
jerelee


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From: Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 01:30:10 -0600
Subject: [Baren 11929] Re: Exhibition standards 

Graham Dearest

Thank you so much for your interesting post regarding exchange standards. You
have given us a lot to think about
and it is always a good thing when one knows exactly what others are thinking
about them. Now we all know your
thoughts on our prints and the work accomplished during the last three years
here at Baren.

There is one sentence that does not make sense to me. Perhaps you can elaborate:

Graham writes:
"There is a factor, an exhibition is only as good as the weakest piece.
hummmmm"

This is a very puzzling statement. If this is what you truly believe, if this is
true.....then please explain whatever possess you to let your prints be shown in
the same exhibition with those of Walter J. Phillips (1884-1963) at the Art
Gallery of Greater Victoria ????   Clearly you can't possibly think that your
"blue chip art" work is on the par with Mr. Phillips timeless masterpieces ?
Why if your statement is true....the poor man must be turning and tossing on his
grave..... to have 19 of his fabulous prints tossed in with your  31  "weaker"
prints......what a bummer of an exhibition!  Borderline sacrilegious! Would such
a combined exhibition had ever taken place while the man was alive ?  Much doubt
it!

But perhaps that did not occur to you at the time....perhaps the excitement of
showing your work alongside the greatest northamerican woodcut artist of all
times was a nice reward for your hard work an opportunity too good to pass
up....but I bet you did! I bet you thought about how people were going to
receive your prints alongside Mr. Phillips...I bet you thought long and hard
about it......kind of the same queasy feeling I got at the Skokie exhibit when
by alphabetical order...my poor attempt at a very first woodblock print in
exchange #1 happened to hang right next to your wonderful "Fisher" print.

I think an apology is in order.....some of us here have stopped
listening........but Mr. W. J. Phillips awaits!

Julio



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?dimitris=20grammatikopulos?= <aenaonartst@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 02:22:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 11930] WHAT?Exhibition standards? 

Dear Baren,
within this little democratic society created by Mr. Bull, some voices cry
out for oligarchy. They need 'standards', 'higher level' and other things.
Personally, although I came to unsubscribing a few times during the past
13 months, I reconsidered because after all I was wrong. Either I reacted
to emotionally on certain matters or I let myself get hurt emotionally on
others. Anyway, I'm still here.
Mr. Scholes's e-mail just gave me another reason to make up my mind and be
a part of Baren as long as it exists...or I get kicked out...8-)
Mr. Scholes runs a business which is based on the participation of artists
or would-like-to-be artists in his workshops. His clienture, even the
possible one is mostly among Baren members.
So, what beter way for him to declare his 'level' as _so high indeed_ and
thus advertise his business?
He has an opinion about what is art and what isn't...
He also has an opinion abotu who is an artist and who isn't..
And of course, he has the right (he thinks...or is he certain about it?)to
judge your works and set the standards.
My belief is that all the exchanges have been on the highest level
possible.
And that is so, because everyone that did participate created a piece of
art, by giving their best in it. And that is the main facor why Mr.
Scholes cannot and probably will not ever perceive the 'level' of the
Baren exchanges. He does not have the criteria needed for this task.
You need to feel, mister.
You need to work and please yourself, mister.
But since all your life, you've been trying to please everybody else and
get the pat on the head...at least I feel sorry for you.
Regards to Baren,
Dimitris Grammatikopulos
- --- Julio.Rodriguez@walgreens.com wrote: > 

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From: Gerald Soworka <chockings@dingoblue.net.au>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 22:03:34 +1100
Subject: [Baren 11931] Re: Exhibition standards <200011011537.AAA16562@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <200011011748.CAA46798@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Good onya Graham. You are the first in my memory to criticize the work
of anyone in baren.

Yes the prints we produce are of variable artistic merit, but unlike you
I appreciate and like the open and all inclusive nature of the forum,
exhibitions and exchanges. But the whole group could seriously benefit
from a move towards honest open constructive criticism instead of the
usual Pollyanna "everything anyone does in woodcut is wonderful"
approach. Constructive criticism is what helps us to learn.

We still all need plenty of positive stroking. But the positive stroking
becomes meaningless if no-one is ever honest and critical.

Bad woodcuts are as much crap as any other media and they stay that way
until someone helps you to develop your critical faculties and learn to
do better. We owe each other good supportive honest criticism.

Looking forward to a more critical but just as supportive forum
Gerald


- --
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
On-line Gallery and Portfolio
Drawings, Prints and Paintings
http://www.crosswinds.net/~geralds/art.html


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From: David Bull <davebull@woodblock.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:50:02 +0900
Subject: [Baren 11932] Re: Exhibition standards <200011011537.AAA16562@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <200011011748.CAA46798@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> <200011021057.TAA28232@ml.asahi-net.or.jp> 

Interesting viewpoints coming out on this topic!  (But please try
and remember to keep things as civil as possible, gang!)

Gerald wrote:
> ... We owe each other good supportive honest criticism.
> 
> Looking forward to a more critical but just as supportive forum

Making critical comments about fellow members' work is a very difficult
and potentially dangerous task, especially on an open forum like this
where more than 250 people are 'listening in'. But for those who may not
be aware of it, I should remind everybody that we _do_ have a system in
place for encouraging criticism and comments of the exchange prints.

Ever since the time of the second exchange, there has been a 'form'
included on every individual page in the 'Exchange Gallery' with which
you can send comments to the people who made the prints (scroll down
below each print to find it). Up to about a year or so ago, these forms
were used quite a lot, and many of the comments sent in were later added
to those pages, so that we could all learn from the points that were
made. (Some exchange participants request that submitted comments be
kept private, so in these cases, nothing is used publicly, and the form
submission is seen only by the person involved..)

For the most recent exchanges, the forms haven't been used much at all,
for what reason I can't say.

But the system _is_ in place, ready to be used. (And incidentally, the
forms remain permanently 'active' even after each exchange is long over.
Comments will keep trickling in for years to come ...)

Dave


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End of Baren Digest V13 #1201
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