[Baren} the mailing list / discussion forum for woodblock printmaking Baren Digest Sunday, 28 May 2000 Volume 11 : Number1022 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEAFRUTH@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:57:42 EDT Subject: [Baren 9775] Re: Baren Digest V11 #1021 Maria, When you're rolling oil ink it makes a sound telling you what the tack is. For wood engravings the sound should be very light not sticky. Also a roller with the durometer of thirty would be better than a very soft roller. Ruth www.ruthleaf.com ------------------------------ From: Shireen Holman Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:52:39 -0400 Subject: [Baren 9776] Re: wood engraving content! At 05:35 PM 5/26/00 -0700, Maria wrote: >I am having ever so slight trouble printing delicate tiny little detailed >carved lines in my sacred tree print. >Anyway, the roller is a polyurethane and probably too soft Maria, It's possible that the roller is too soft. If you've used it successfully before, I would just be sure not to put any pressure on it when you roll - just smoothly and evenly roll it. As for the ink, it does need to be stiff. I wouldn't add any oil. Add magnesium carbonate. It's hard to say precisely how much; you'll have to test it. Mix in a little and roll out the ink. Someone (James?) described rolling very well - you need to listen to the sound, it should swish. You should also be sure not to put too much ink on the roller - just a thin layer. Hope this helps. Shireen *********************************************** Shireen Holman, Printmaker and Book Artist email: shireenh@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~shireenh/ *********************************************** ------------------------------ From: baren_member@woodblock.com (Arye Saar) Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baren 9778] Replies ... Message posted by: Arye Saar Maria wrote: >Do contact Julio and Greg to get a feel for >cost and details. Thanx Maria, Will contact them when the time arrives. Arye Gayle wrote: >Arye I don't think anyone would object to your >exhibiting Exchanges 4 and 5. I, for one, would be >honored! Thanx, Gayle. A question: Is it ok to send you (Ex.#6 coordinator) the Ex/ #6 prints? Arye *** Note from Dave: Ayre, your postings are all 'bouncing' because you have the address typed incorrectly in your mail program. Please check it when you post next time ... Thanx! ------------------------------ From: "Lezle Williams" Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:02:21 -0500 Subject: [Baren 9779] Re: Baren Digest V11 #1020 Dear Maria, As Andy said- a smoother paper helps... Also, you can add mag carb to stiffen the ink- roll it out thinner and use more-- but lighter passes on the block. A harder roller helps, too. And when I print on an etching press I use a stiff chipboard backing. I recently changed from oil-based litho ink (wood engraving blend) to Graphic Chemical water-based 1650. The details still hold up, clean up is so easy, but I found the biggest advantage is that the ink is very tacky and the paper doesn't have nearly as much tendency to smudge when it first hits the press rollers. Hope this helps... Lezle Williams Rosebud Reservation, South Dakota www.laughingcrow.org ------------------------------ From: "Maria Arango" Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 10:13:36 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9781] editioning Dave wrote: >>The modern print scene here works exactly the same as it does everywhere >>else. All the modern artists use edition numbers to try to make their >>work 'exclusive'. Now now, there are some factors other than the "artificial" limiting the edition for fake exclusivity. First, if you are into reduction prints, as many modern woodcut printmakers seem to be, the limit on the edition is far from artificial in an effort to make extra bucks. The block is destroyed with successive states and no more prints are possible. Why do reduction prints? Why ask why an artist does what we do! It is just a different and very rewarding approach to printmaking. Second, if a printmaker wants to eat this days in the U.S., it is difficult to go against the grain and declare that you will not limit your editions. Has nothing to do with artificiality, again, it has to do with the basic market-sellability of the print media. I have been lucky enough to be represented by a couple of galleries, but neither of them are real keen on the unlimited edition prints. Art fairs are a different story, and unlimited prints sell very well because people are attracted in a moment's glance by the image, not by value or method, being further attracted by the low prices. I do find very appealing the proposition that I can make unlimited runs and do so on non-reduction prints. And I do highly admire Dave's approach on getting collectors with one single well-planned exhibition every year (and a thousand mini-marketing and promotion events), something that is definitely worth looking into. Third, some of us don't charge very much for our prints, even when the editions are limited. So "limited" edition does not necessarily translate into artificial higher prices. That is because I consider limiting the edition my choice, not the potential collector's. If I happen to sell out an edition rather quickly, I hit myself in the rear and make a larger edition next time. I think unless you get famous right now, there is no need for anything larger than 200 in an edition, and that is precisely the definition of a "print" in the U.S.A. IRS codes. Shall we get into the $400-limited-edition-poster "print" market in 2,000 runs? Let's not. That market will die a horrible death someday, I believe it because I'm catholic ;-) and greed is one of the 7 deadly sins. So are envy and anger, by the way, so don't be envious and angry at the doomed sinners. Health to all and print on, oh brave Bareners! Maria <><><><><><><><><><><><> Maria Arango, Printmaker Las Vegas Nevada USA http://www.printmakingstudio.com maria@mariarango.com mariten@lvcm.com <><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ From: Jean Eger Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 11:01:19 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9783] Re: Baren Digest V11 #1020 ------------------------------ From: barbara patera Date: Sat, 27 May 100 11:22:02 Pacific Daylight Time Subject: [none] Bridget, Have been looking at your prints....how long have you been doing reduction cutting? Have never tried it but your images really inspire me. Especially like "Scarecrow" and "La Nina Y El Nino". Barbara P. ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?q?dimitris=20grammatikopulos?= Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 12:54:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baren 9785] Re: wood engraving content! Well, Maria... as you may have noticed I do use fine lines mostly. I have tried oil inks and the ...watery-runny stuff. In any case you must NOT ink much, ...or rather you must ink little. The problem begins when you need saturation. I have used cardboard for backing (when using a rolling press) and paper (light-weight, so as to leave no trace) at a double-knee-joint press (also used for typing in gold). Depending on your press and the edition number you want to reach you most certainly may hand-press the spots. Working in lino, has the advantage that I may leave the ink ON the plate to dry and then print again. It helps with the saturation. There's always a lot in other techniques that may be applied in any other one. Regards, Dimitris ------------------------------ From: Greg Robison Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 23:50:15 -0700 Subject: [Baren 9786] Re: editioning Kampala, 27 May 00 Maria Arango wrote: > I believe it because I'm catholic ;-) and greed is one of the 7 deadly >sins. And of course we cannot "be...angry at the...sinners", dear sister-in-the-Faith, because we are enjoined to hate the sin but love the sinner. :-) + But on this editioning thing, you raise some excellent points that I would like to amplify (not that I don't think you could turn up the volume all by yourself): Number one: Nobody says you've got to sell your prints. But if you want to, find out how the markets work. Markets are where things, including prints, get bought and sold. And I use the plural 'markets' deliberately. There are many distinct markets for works of art, each with its own rules. Pick the market or markets you want to enter (fairs? galleries? internet? book illustration? postage stamp design?), then learn to live with the rules of the people who hold the cash. In some markets, those people clearly want numbers, in the form of a fraction, written in pencil, in the lower left or center of the print, in the margin... (boy, are they picky and specific!). In other markets, for the very same print, they don't care about anything but the image. But, of course, the prices and volumes may be vary (and your costs, too, in bringing your print to a particular market). But one way or another, you gotta give 'em what they want, or at least what they'll accept. You can tell the world that it ought to be different than it is. That's a "prophet". Or you can let the world be what it is and find a way to serve it honestly and in a cost-effective way. That's a "profit." Take the homonym of your choice. Graham once dealt with this issue, if I remember correctly, by saying something like this: "If you make a print in an edition of five and the market goes wild and it sells out, don't worry -- and don't cheat. You said that the first run was an edition of five. Well, then, it's got to be an edition of five. That's your integrity. Solution? Just cut another block, a different block, but with the same 'look and feel' as the first one, and this time, print 10. After all, you -- and only you -- know how to do this." In other words, this doctrine holds that success is not due to some chance or accident. If your work sells, it's because of your artistic vision and technical mastery and their connection with what people want to buy, not because you accidently produced something that sold. The real asset is not your block, it's your gradually acquired ability to carve and print blocks. I adhere to this doctrine, too, because I don't think success in art or in anything else is like the lottery. There may be ups and down in the short or even medium term, but in the long run, quality and skill produce value. Dave's approach of taking subscriptions is admirable. I never fail to mention it when I talk about him, and I've been talking about him a lot lately in connection with our show here in Kampala. And Dave, by emphasizing a 'relationship' sales approach rather an a 'transactional' one, can more or less flaunt the rules of the markets he has escaped in doing so. But his approach is clearly not universally applicable. Whenever you tell someone -- as you do in the subscription approach -- that you're "going to do something" in the future, you incur a liability. It may be a legal liability if someone actually gives you money, or it may "only" be a moral liability, because of your promise. Not everyone is ready or able to indebt themselves with promises of this sort. For many printmakers -- I would even guess for most printmakers on [Baren] -- a 'transactional' approach is better than a 'relationship' one. But in a transactional world, you're a market 'taker' not a market 'maker.' Whoops! Too long! Gregory Robison ------------------------------ From: David Bull Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 08:05:35 +0900 Subject: [Baren 9787] Re: editioning Maria wrote: > Second, if a printmaker wants to eat this days in the U.S., it is difficult > to go against the grain and declare that you will not limit your editions. Greg wrote: > then learn to live with the rules of the people who hold > the cash. Boy it's going to be hard to answer these without sounding like a real snob ... or worse ... Please understand that I'm not hostile to the way that _you_ choose to do things, but I do feel that your philosophy here is a bit ... misguided ... What you are both recommending is that one should not follow his/her own moral compass, but simply accept 'that's the way things are'. Maria says 'if you want to eat', but suppose for a minute that the only type of print that was selling these days was the repro posters ... would you then start making those? Don't your own standards come into the equation here? Any transaction of any sort, whether it be for a loaf of bread or a woodblock print, must match the needs/desires of _both_ parties. If you are doing something that you don't want to do (or don't believe is right), simply in order to 'get the business', then something is very wrong somewhere. And in our world of woodblock printmaking, to be 'wrong' in this way is to reject your own principles for _nothing_ - because if it was indeed money that you were after, you wouldn't be in this line of work, obviously ... Maria mentioned the: > $400-limited-edition-poster "print" market in 2,000 runs ... These people are selling a product on two points: as a decorative item, and as an investment. You and I know that those things really only have value as the decoration, and that any investment value is purely imaginary. 'Poster print' salesmen who emphasize the second point to the exclusion of the first point are nothing short of dishonest crooks. But when you sell prints with edition numbers, thus encouraging your clients to think of them as an 'exclusive' product (and thus one that will increase in value), aren't you starting to move in the same direction? Please don't get angry at my implying you are a 'crook', as I'm exaggerating this to try and make my point - which is, if you don't believe something is right, then you shouldn't be doing it. The phrase 'if you want to eat these days' can have nothing to do with your decision. Am I a foolish idealist? Maybe. But you know what? I've found that when you come to a clear philosophical stance on something, and then follow those principles in your daily activities, it doesn't seem to matter much whether or not you are swimming against the current, you will still make plenty of headway. Distributing woodblock prints through subscription was unknown here when I started more than ten years ago. (Actually I've since learned that Jacoulet used a type of subscription system, but I didn't know that at the time ...). Everybody around me just laughed when they heard of my plans. "Nobody does it that way" was the most common type of comment I heard. Music to my ears! This is already too long, but may I add a short joke that makes this very important point ... *** A cargo boat headed for a tropical island ... on board are two salesmen from different shoe companies. They have containers of shoes on board ... The boat lands, and the two men come ashore and start to walk up the beach and along the dusty main street of the village. What do they see around them? People walking around under the hot sun in t-shirts and shorts ... and _bare feet_ ... Salesman number one stops in his tracks. "Look at this! They don't have any shoes! What have I done! I've brought a whole container load of shoes to an island where nobody wears shoes!" He turns around and sadly starts to trudge back to the dock, to re-board the ship and return home ... Salesman number two drops his suitcase and stands there looking around him in amazement. "Look at this! They don't have any shoes! Here I am with a whole container load of shoes with me, and not one single person on this island has got their shoes yet! YAHOOOOOOOO!" *** > You can tell the world that it ought to be different than it is. > That's a "prophet". Or you can let the world be what it is and find a > way to serve it honestly and in a cost-effective way ... Not '_tell them_ it ought to be different' Greg, _do_ it differently! Dave ------------------------------ End of Baren Digest V11 #1022 *****************************